Death Penalty

[captain]

you keep dodging the question.... explain to me why Texas who still leads the nation in state-sanctioned killings and has executed four times more than any other state yet has had one of the highest murder rates in the country demonstrating that the death penalty does not have a general deterrent effect.

the three largest cities in Texas have murder rates among the top 25 in the country, while none of the largest cities in new york state are in the top 25.

there is ur statistics so do you have an answer to that question or are you gonna keep spinning it? waiting for ur response.....

Reminds me of a Chris Tucker line... "Can you hear the words coming out of my mouth?" When you start putting up some legitimate statistics from legitimate sources then maybe we can start having an open discussion. As it stands right now you are throwing numbers around that no one has any idea where they came from.. Now I know you might believe that everything you read on the Internet is true but I don't just fall in line.. Show us your data sources....

By the way 73.7 percent of all statistics on the Internet are made up....

[Stevo80]

Maybe we agree to disagree... None of us can rove" our thoughts, that's what makes the world go round!

[GNBRETT]

Reminds me of a Chris Tucker line... "Can you hear the words coming out of my mouth?" When you start putting up some legitimate statistics from legitimate sources then maybe we can start having an open discussion. As it stands right now you are throwing numbers around that no one has any idea where they came from.. Now I know you might believe that everything you read on the Internet is true but I don't just fall in line.. Show us your data sources....

By the way 73.7 percent of all statistics on the Internet are made up....

so Texas which has the highest number of executions and is still in the top 25 for cities with murders is a made up internet statistic? this is common knowledge.

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

so are these made up statistics? again, Texas is still in the top 25 for murder rate per 100,000 people. so how is a state with the highest number of executions a deterrent to murder if they are still in the top 25? you keep dodging the question?

Texas is the leader in executions by more then 4x the next state which is Virginia who isnt even in the top 10 for murders per 100,000 ppl so once again why does Texas have so many murders if the death penalty is such a deterrent?

one would think that if the death penalty was such a deterrent then by all means the state of Texas would surely see a drastic drop in murder rates cause criminals down there would surely fear being put to death right?

Michigan has NO death penalty yet as of 2012 that state has two of deadliest cities per 100,000 ppl in the US being Flint and Detroit. Louisiana is 3rd with New Orleans and they DO have a death penalty. St. Louis, Missouri is 4th and has a death penalty and Baltimore, Maryland is 5th with NO death penalty. so there is no nexus between states that have or dont have a death penalty as a deterrent to murder.

[Professor]

so Texas which has the highest number of executions and is still in the top 25 for cities with murders is a made up internet statistic? this is common knowledge. Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center so are these made up statistics? again, Texas is still in the top 25 for murder rate per 100,000 people. so how is a state with the highest number of executions a deterrent to murder if they are still in the top 25? you keep dodging the question? Texas is the leader in executions by more then 4x the next state which is Virginia who isnt even in the top 10 for murders per 100,000 ppl so once again why does Texas have so many murders if the death penalty is such a deterrent? one would think that if the death penalty was such a deterrent then by all means the state of Texas would surely see a drastic drop in murder rates cause criminals down there would surely fear being put to death right? .

So then you are saying that the murder rate in Texas would go down if they overturned the death penalty.

[Superzuki]

We put them down to put them out of OUR misery!!!

[GNBRETT]

So then you are saying that the murder rate in Texas would go down if they overturned the death penalty.

no im sayn it really has no effect one way or the other so why waste the money? let them rot and die in jail like the caged animals that they are.

[GNBRETT]

We put them down to put them out of OUR misery!!!

thats true but at a cost of over a million dollars to the tax payer for each one. money can be better spent elsewhere.

[Professor]

Clear up the space so they can house another.

[Professor]

thats true but at a cost of over a million dollars to the tax payer for each one. money can be better spent elsewhere.

Then quit spending the money. Spend up the appeal process. The first trial should be complete within 3 months. The appeal and review within another 6 months. Another 3 and they are gone from this earth.

[GNBRETT]

Then quit spending the money. Spend up the appeal process. The first trial should be complete within 3 months. The appeal and review within another 6 months. Another 3 and they are gone from this earth.

I'm sure in China, Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia its probably hours and many cases minutes.

[chrisjp]

it is my opinion... DNA proof you murdered someone... and was intentional , not a accident, we the taxpayers should not be the one punished for their crimes. without steep enough consequences there can be a change in actions of those who wish to do harm.

[VaBusa]

agree 100%. we as a society do subscribe to revenge which is what the death penalty gives us. but as far as punishment goes it just doesnt equal punishment. look around the world and see what other countries subscribe to the death penalty?

the U.S. takes a spot behind China, Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia for the most executions in the world. idn about you vabs but being listed with those other 4 countries who think women are tools and have virtually no right to do anything is not the type of counties I as an american want to be compared to.

last year we in the USA have the highest murder rate of any civilized country on the planet. so obviously, the death penalty has no effect of reducing murders so maybe as a nation we shud try a different approach no?

Well, I don't base my stance on the death penalty by comparing the U.S. to a list of other countries that also have the death penalty. All I see in your analogy is that violent crime is everywhere, in every country, and every country approaches punishment in their own way. To try to draw a parallel between us and them and their treatment of women will not sway my views on the subject; one has nothing to do with the other. Violence abounds everywhere...

Perhaps if our country adopted a much more swift justice, you would see that it can be a very efficient deterrent. I argue that we don't know the impact of a broken system. :2cents:

As stated early on in this thread, it boils down to what each individual deems real "punishment" and what conflicts with their personal views on life, religious beliefs, what's fair vs what's not, what's deserved vs what's not, etc. What is punishment? I argue it cannot be painted with a single brush. All I can do is put myself in the shoes of a victim's family and feel that, if it were my loved one taken from this world in violence, the person guilty doesn't deserve to take another breath. Other families may feel it is a better punishment to let them rot their lives away...again, a very subjective no matter how you dice things up.

via Samsung Galaxy SIII

[siege]

It's interesting to see all these people arguing for a faster justice system. I mean, the system isn't intentionally slow - the Constitution guarantees a speedy trial, after all. But, there are a lot of accused who need trying, and it's in the best interest of society that the greatest number of their trials have the correct outcome. Mandating speed in the process is virtually guaranteed to increase the number of mistakes, and, in the case of capital punishment, the number of people wrongly executed. Look at the number of cases where the accused has had their conviction overturned after 5, 10, 15, or more years in prison. Not all of these were capital cases, of course, but the point stands: Is our need to punish so great that we'd sacrifice people like this?

[1busa]

heres an interesting little website I came across which allows you to compare crime rates to other countries. You remember back in 1994 when that kid from the U.S. got drunk in Singapore and vandalized some cars? Do you remember what happened to him? They caned his azz!! They don't play around over there..... you wont see anybody so much as littering. Cops patrol around like vultures circling a dead carcass and go ahead and do something foolish and spit on the sidewalk or litter. You think you'll get a fine or reprimand? No they are gonna cane your azz and send you on your merry way Compare their crime statistics to ours and 1 thing that stands out to me is they have more police officers per 100,000 people than we do?? Guess what that chit works evidently, look @ their crime rates compared to ours. Makes sense to me, people are more afraid of pain than sitting around in a cell doing nothing for X amount of time. Gets the point across fast and in a hurry to even the most stubborn of people. 10 lashes from a bamboo rod that will make you pass out after getting hit 2 or 3 times.... then they stop wake you back up and continue till they get em all in

NationMaster - Crime stats: Singapore vs United States

[VaBusa]

It's interesting to see all these people arguing for a faster justice system. I mean, the system isn't intentionally slow - the Constitution guarantees a speedy trial, after all. But, there are a lot of accused who need trying, and it's in the best interest of society that the greatest number of their trials have the correct outcome. Mandating speed in the process is virtually guaranteed to increase the number of mistakes, and, in the case of capital punishment, the number of people wrongly executed. Look at the number of cases where the accused has had their conviction overturned after 5, 10, 15, or more years in prison. Not all of these were capital cases, of course, but the point stands: Is our need to punish so great that we'd sacrifice people like this?

I won't disagree with you on points made; true, there are cases that have been overturned years later because of new evidence presented.

However, there are far too many sitting on death row that use every avenue to appeal when they've confessed, when there is so much evidence supporting their confession, when there are witnesses to the crime. The overuse of the "insanity" plea has fast become a norm to drag the process along and avoid justice.

Criminals know there's always going to be a lawyer out there to champion their desire to not be put to death, and taxpayer money aside, if I were the family of a murder victim, I'll be damned if I want to wait decades for that person to finally face justice. By the same token, family wants justice, but not at the expense of an innocent person's life. I'm certain family wants the RIGHT person to suffer consequences, not "just anybody". I'm so tired of seeing victims and they're families painted as the bad in this. Truth is convicted murderers have more rights in our justice system than the victims do. The system allows far too many loopholes interrupting justice handed down by a jury of your peers. That is the delay I disagree with...that is the waste on society and that is what so many murderers count on to avoid death. End that and perhaps it'll be a more effective deterrent.

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[Delgado]

There are crimes outside of murder where the criminal needs to be shot right then and there. Having said that, I think my answer is pretty obvious.

Also, some of the lesser crime folks need harsher punishments. When a guy gets arrested for murder after being in and out jail his whole life, something needs to be changed.

[GNBRETT]

it is my opinion... DNA proof you murdered someone... and was intentional , not a accident, we the taxpayers should not be the one punished for their crimes. without steep enough consequences there can be a change in actions of those who wish to do harm.

DNA can be mishandled and DNA can be planted and DNA can be tracked into a crime scene. it happens. DNA is not the end all be all.

but that DNA has also set numerous people on death row free. so sure DNA is strong evidence absent being mishandled or planted but it can be just as strong in eliminating someone as a suspect as confirming it.

[GNBRETT]

Well, I don't base my stance on the death penalty by comparing the U.S. to a list of other countries that also have the death penalty. All I see in your analogy is that violent crime is everywhere, in every country, and every country approaches punishment in their own way. To try to draw a parallel between us and them and their treatment of women will not sway my views on the subject; one has nothing to do with the other. Violence abounds everywhere...

Perhaps if our country adopted a much more swift justice, you would see that it can be a very efficient deterrent. I argue that we don't know the impact of a broken system. :2cents:

As stated early on in this thread, it boils down to what each individual deems real "punishment" and what conflicts with their personal views on life, religious beliefs, what's fair vs what's not, what's deserved vs what's not, etc. What is punishment? I argue it cannot be painted with a single brush. All I can do is put myself in the shoes of a victim's family and feel that, if it were my loved one taken from this world in violence, the person guilty doesn't deserve to take another breath. Other families may feel it is a better punishment to let them rot their lives away...again, a very subjective no matter how you dice things up.

via Samsung Galaxy SIII

and what would you think about those that received swift justice who were on death row and then later based on DNA or other types of physical or circumstantial evidence found to be innocent. these countries treatment of women is in line with their treatment of prisoners. ur guilty until proven innocent and few if any are proven innocent once the state or country deems them eligible for the death penalty.

if a woman is accused of cheating on her husband they are often killed or stoned to death.

punishment is there to serve as a deterrent. if its not a deterrent then its simply revenge.

[VaBusa]

We can go back and forth all day and all we'll do is disagree...

You won't change my mind by picking things apart, any more than I'll change yours by doing the same...

via Samsung Galaxy SIII

[Blanca BusaLess]

I will travel anywhere anytime and execute any and all child molesters, kidnappers, obvious murderers and Busa thieves for free. Don't even need a black executioners hood. I want em to see my face!
Then I will go home eat a nice dinner and sleep soundly at night.

Examples of reasons for instant automatic termination upon discovery:
Jeffry Dahmer and Ariel Castro
In instances like the above where there is absolutely zero doubt in anyone's mind what kind of evil that is present upon discovery the perp should be shot on the spot. Quick painless shot to back of the head and done. It should be recorded as well. Later all channels should be interrupted with 'we now bring you the execution video of caught child kidnapper and molestor Ariel Castro.'
You change the channel and it's there, you can't get away from it, a modern day form of a public hanging and I bet anyone anything these kinds of crimes would stop.
Brett do you have any kids? The type of person that would harm a child deserves to die a most horrible death immediately, no trial no atty no nothing just pop and drop, bag em and tag em.

Ariel Castro deserved to be tortured mercilessly for what he did. May he rot in Effin Hell forever.
If we aren't going to kill them than we need to be more Russianlike and send them to the Gulags where they work until death. American prisons still don't seem to 'punish' anyone? Put them in a hole and let them rot ok.