Pro-life or Pro-Death



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ogre

Call me Liberace!
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Now that Alabama and Georgia are drastically altering the abortion laws on the books, it really begins to ignite the debate about what should be done. So let's try and break this down to what the argument is about.

Pro-life: it's not ok to kill babies

Pro-Choice: Don't tell me what to do with my body

ok, here's my opinion, it's not your body, it's the body of another human. Debate over. I've always considered myself firmly in the pro-choice camp, however, since my daughter was born, I can no longer understand why someone wouldn't want to raise a tiny human. It has been the single most rewarding experience in my life, and I would never want to deny someone else the opportunity to grow as a human by helping another human grow.


That said, I'm personally not comfortable telling people what they can and cannot do when it doesn't affect me in the slightest. So as a country, we're sort of in a pickle. I don't agree with criminalizing abortion, we have to be honest, there are circumstances under which it's beyond reasonable expectation to have someone go through with the birth. If the pregnancy is a product of rape or incest are two examples I can think of, well being of the mother is a third.

There are exceptions to every rule, and there can be no perfect compromise. The main problems I see are as follows:

The father, in cases that don't fall under the above circumstances, has no say in whether the child will be born. I don't think that's ok.


If you make abortion illegal, women will be forced to obtain abortions from unsafe sources, and that's not cool either.


The father shares no responsibility for the penalties, that's not ok either. The father isn't being put in jail for abortion, isn't required to shoulder the responsibility of helping the woman mentally cope with killing her own child. Dudes need to take responsibility, but I think that's a moral change that needs to happen, and can't figure out how to legislate those types of rules.


People need to chill out about this issue, nothing is going to happen without civilized, rational, bipartisan, focused discussion on the legality of abortion. So let's chill out and have a discussion.
 

HayaWakened

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Can I be pro-life and pro-death penalty?
If I am pro-life, should I give up eggs and caviar as food? Or is this discussion philosophically limited to humans only? (for practical purposes, yes)
If I'm pro-choice, can I choose to kill my next door neighbor if he doesn't turn his f***ing music down? (of course not: we can't compare a fully grown human to an embryo...can we?)
 

fallenarch

THE SLOW RIDER
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I think if you can't actually have a baby then you should shut up. Anyway as far as opinions, people bring a lot of emotions in to cloud this issue but basically no human has the right to control another humans body, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if one is an adult and the other an embryo. If a woman is obligated to carry a child to term after conception, why does her obligation stop there? If that kid needs a kidney at 20 is the mother obligated to give her kidney too?

Clearly the so called Pro-life people are interested in controlling a woman's vagina, as they could care less what happens to the baby once it's born. And BTW, I'm not Pro-death I'm Pro-choice simply because I don't believe the law can trade one person's humanity for another's, even if one is a cute little baby.

I've never been involved in an abortion and if the need arose I would be against it. But it would be the female's decision. If she chose abortion I would not support it and that would terminate the relationship. But she should have the right to make that decision.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
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Abortion as soon as pregnancy is detected, from rape, incest, or the exremely rare health of the mother.
Otherwise, NO.
Women know the risks of sex, if you're not prepared to become a mother, then don't take the risk of becoming one.
I don't have a problem with birth control, or the morning after pill.
But, once there's a heartbeat...that's a child.
Obama signed a law to allow partial birth abortion.
Where a healthy child can be delivered up to 7 months...and have their spinal cord sliced with a scalpel at the base of the neck.
My nephew was born healthy at 7 months!
He needed a month in the hospital before coming home, but was and is happy and healthy.
Now, as if that wasn't bad enough, the racist pos Va gov Northam wants to ok delivering a healthy full term baby...then decide if the mom wants to kill it or not, with the dr.'s advice of course, cough, cough.
And no, nobody would use the healthy child's body and organs for blackmarket sales or research. Or to keep an oil king in sand land alive longer.
Wtf is wrong with people!?
F all the libtard dumacrats who want to save the lives of pos rapists and killers on death row, yet it's ok, and the woman's choice to kill her newborn.
And, having known a man who got his girlfriend pregnant, and she had an abortion without him knowing about it until after, has to be horrible when the man wants his child.
My wife and I have a daughter, and I cannot imagine having wanted to abort, or kill her after birth.
Absoloutely horrible.
 

Dougyp333

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Some people say that as I man I shouldn't get a say in the abortion discussion. Fair enough except for one thing, tax dollars. I am a tax payer and many abortions are funded by tax dollars so I do get a say. Stop the tax payer funding and i'll step away from the discussion.

It's a sad thing when a human life is snuffed out but if someone wants to kill their child and it's legal sure go for it. As a Libertarian i'll let you do your thing but I can still find it morally reprehensible.
 

GAmedic

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I have four years of medical training so in that aspect, I am pro life. In the sake of preserving life, I see abortions as bad given majority of the circumstances. High risk of mother's death is the top reason followed closely by criminal acts like rape of any degree that I would favor an abortion to. There are a large number of contraceptives and practices to warrant the "because I want to" ideology to be unlawful. There are millions of women out there that are unable to have biological children; however that concept is flawed because of the large number of kids in the foster system. At the end of the day, it is a topic with loopholes and flaws throughout and nobody will ever be pleased with the outcome. If my girlfriend had an abortion without my knowledge or talking to me about it first, she would expeditiously become single and outlawed to me.

Another taboo topic is physician assisted suicide which I am more strongly in favor of that than I am abortion.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
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I think if you can't actually have a baby then you should shut up. Anyway as far as opinions, people bring a lot of emotions in to cloud this issue but basically no human has the right to control another humans body, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if one is an adult and the other an embryo. If a woman is obligated to carry a child to term after conception, why does her obligation stop there? If that kid needs a kidney at 20 is the mother obligated to give her kidney too?

Clearly the so called Pro-life people are interested in controlling a woman's vagina, as they could care less what happens to the baby once it's born. And BTW, I'm not Pro-death I'm Pro-choice simply because I don't believe the law can trade one person's humanity for another's, even if one is a cute little baby.

I've never been involved in an abortion and if the need arose I would be against it. But it would be the female's decision. If she chose abortion I would not support it and that would terminate the relationship. But she should have the right to make that decision.
so you're saying women should NOT be able to have abortions? That's part of what the argument is, at what point is a fetus considered a human? I mean what is the criteria for being human?

Some people say that as I man I shouldn't get a say in the abortion discussion. Fair enough except for one thing, tax dollars. I am a tax payer and many abortions are funded by tax dollars so I do get a say. Stop the tax payer funding and i'll step away from the discussion.

It's a sad thing when a human life is snuffed out but if someone wants to kill their child and it's legal sure go for it. As a Libertarian i'll let you do your thing but I can still find it morally reprehensible.
and like I said above, that's kinda where I'm at with it, I neglected to bring up the tax payer funding issue, so good catch there. That's another facet of this conundrum. Same as 577 said, if you have sex, it's pretty well known what the consequences could be. What happened to the personal responsibility in the equation?
 

GAmedic

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Willie, I have to partially disagree with you on your post in that women who cant biologically have children speak louder. The foster system is a sh*t show damn near making it impossible for tons of capable spouses to foster and or adopt kids. The idea behind abortion is largely in part because the birth mother doesnt want the child or doesnt want to deal with pain. Pain is temporary. I carry enough narcotics on my truck to make delivery of a child much less painful and almost make her forget it happened. So, why not give the child away to spouses who cant biologically have kids? Of course, going through the necessary steps to ensure that child's safety by doing background checks and whatnot.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
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Willie, I have to partially disagree with you on your post in that women who cant biologically have children speak louder. The foster system is a sh*t show damn near making it impossible for tons of capable spouses to foster and or adopt kids. The idea behind abortion is largely in part because the birth mother doesnt want the child or doesnt want to deal with pain. Pain is temporary. I carry enough narcotics on my truck to make delivery of a child much less painful and almost make her forget it happened. So, why not give the child away to spouses who cant biologically have kids? Of course, going through the necessary steps to ensure that child's safety by doing background checks and whatnot.
broken foster care system is another issue entirely, but definitely needs to be fixed.
 

GAmedic

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broken foster care system is another issue entirely, but definitely needs to be fixed.
You are right but these two issues go hand in hand to a degree. If we nationally outlaw abortion, the foster system would grossly become overrun by kids. I dont personally vote. For anything. Wont vote for this topic either so I expect my voice to fall on deaf ears outside of this discussion.

There will never be middle ground because people will always have be in business they ain't got no business being in. Kinda like the "if it dont affect you, why do you care" mentality.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
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My wife and I have one healthy, biological daughter(thank you God).
My wife was back in the ER the day we came home from the hospital, stayed another week, and had 2 miscarriages in the next 3 years after. She cannot have any more kids without an extremely high risk to her own life, or the child's.
We have been in the foster care system for over 2 years now. Not wanting to adopt a baby(even though they only cost around $30k minimum to buy...yes you don't "adopt" babies...you have to Buy them).
And the rest of the system is a mess.
You can't tell me that there isn't one little girl in this country, close in age to our daughter, in dire need, and wanting a home where they will be loved.
We're waiting, praying and hoping.
Meanwhile, it's ok to abort/aka kill babies.
The only good(if any) that comes from an abortion, is sparing a child from not being wanted or loved.
How f'd up our society has become.
 

c10

Registered
I have read what everyone posted . This is my experience broken down very simply as I can .
FYI I usually stay out of these kind of topics .

Life is cruel , and were not all meant to live. I have been , and seen things that make this a impossible subject to pick a side .
Many abortions in reality is a harvesting of human organs . Some to save , and others for ? ( use your imagination ) .
Many women are Drug addicts , and simply put would never raise a infant correctly . Thus making more worthless humans sucking the tit of the world .
Money ! Its a business in much the same as any other .
Is it fair ? No , but was life ever fair ?

I see children ( special needs ) that should be with God . If we roll back the clock 50 to 100 years they would of perished shortly after birth . I'm not talking a child missing a leg or blind . I'm talking the ones that have ZERO communication, and if left unsupported would perish in hours to a day . I have family in this condition by the way . The burden placed on family , and society is 100X more than if they were with our maker .
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
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I didn't watch the video.
I consider SH a foolish, arrogant prick.
Highly intellegent? Yes, no doubt.
But he was closed minded to creation.
If someone is not a Christian, fine, that is their choice, and right. But, many mainstream scientists now agree, and/or are moving towards the fact that life is by design, creation(regardless who you belive the creator is). That it is statistically impossible to have happened by accident.
S.H was a genious...but far from having all the answers.
 

sixpack577

Top Gun
Registered
I'm also pro death penalty.
Rapist, child molestor, killer, shooter.
We don't need you in society, nor should we support you in prison.
Make your peace with God, whomever, or no one, and we'll fast track you through the court system, and walk you out to the gallows, firing squad, alligator pit, etc.
Done. Solving the world's problems one at a time.
 
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