A few questions about group riding………need some advice

[BUBBA]

I have an awesome opportunity to ride with some members but I don’t know if I am even up for the ride.

First, I have never ridden in a group before. The largest I have ever done was three, our Friends (riding 2 up on a Roadstar), my lovely wife (on my old Bandit) and I.
Since I was the most experienced, I took the lead position. No problems but I was never pushed to even leave 2nd gear, just a nice slow ride down the PCH highway nothing technical.

Second, I have never had any training what so ever. I have never even had any advice given to me by anyone. Everything I have learned has been on my own and through experience only. I am sure I am doing many things wrong but without someone actually watching me ride there has never been the opportunity to hear any criticism. I would love to do some track days to gain the knowledge, but can’t seem to squeeze the time in with my family & work right now.

Third, I do not have leathers. I only have a textile two piece Joe Rocket jacket with pants to match. They are completely padded but I thought I had heard it is required to have leathers on some group rides. If this is true, I will not have the opportunity to ride in a group.

Lastly, I would not want to embarrass my fellow riders by slowing them down in the twisties due to my lack of experience in them.

I could really use some input here from the ORG and not just some of the standard Videos that I have been looking at.

SS and 200MPH you guys are instructors and lead group rides correct?
I would very much value your opinions on this.
I very much value ALL the ORG members’ opinions too.

As you can see, I am not afraid to show my ignorance - specially since it is one of my more redeeming Qualities.

Thanks in advance, as I know you will come through.
You always have.
Bubba

 

[Acehole]

Never hurts to ask i always say!

 

[jellyrug]

Bubba

I guess I could say I am almost in the same predicament, as I stopped riding about twenty years ago and started again recently, first dirt and then again street.

The way I look at it is that if I do a group ride and they leave me in the dust, rather than the risk of ending up in jail, breaking the law, I will tell them not to wait and go ahead without me.

If they ride within the rules of the road, with a few sprints now and then, I can keep up with one hand and one eye closed, no problem. If I want to drag knees, I will go back to the track for a while, not on the road in a group ride.

 

[badazgtp]

If you go on the ride, ride to your abilities, not theirs. If they leave you behind, they're not a group to ride with anyways. A good group will find out who they're weakest riders are, and help them out with some pointers and what not. When you get there, find a couple of riders to talk to like you did here and see if they can be a mentour for you on the ride. Good luck, have fun, and be careful.

 

[NickSully]

Bubba,

I would check into taking a MSF course or a advance rider course too. You mentioned you had no training what so ever so these courses will help you a lot. I've been riding dirt bikes since I was like 8 and got my first street bike when I turned 16 but never had any real training. I took a course last year and learned so much. I'm hoping to take one of the advance rider courses this fall after I get some more mileage on the busa. Some of the best money I spent yet that's for sure.

Also, when I ride my HD with other cruisers just about all of them know these signals found here or some variation of them:

Universal Motorcycle Hand Signals - I Ride My Own

It took me a couple rides to get use to the group thing but I enjoy now.

 

[Scar]

I sent you a PM, Bubba.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Bubba, my thoughts in bold below...

I have an awesome opportunity to ride with some members but I don’t know if I am even up for the ride. Right on!

First, I have never ridden in a group before. The largest I have ever done was three, our Friends (riding 2 up on a Roadstar), my lovely wife (on my old Bandit) and I.
Since I was the most experienced, I took the lead position. No problems but I was never pushed to even leave 2nd gear, just a nice slow ride down the PCH highway nothing technical.
I've never been in a group ride before either, but I'm guessing that's how everyone started. I would recommend talking to the ride leader(s) and see if they think this particular ride is a good match or not. Some rides are "intense" and some are "casual". Either way, if they invite you along, then, the way I see it, if you've been up front with them about your skill and experience, they have an obligations to accommodate you along the way. If their not up for that, they should un-invite you with respect.

Second, I have never had any training what so ever. I have never even had any advice given to me by anyone. Everything I have learned has been on my own and through experience only. I am sure I am doing many things wrong but without someone actually watching me ride there has never been the opportunity to hear any criticism. I would love to do some track days to gain the knowledge, but can’t seem to squeeze the time in with my family & work right now.
I swear by training. I've taken classes where I didn't learn an thing...and that alone taught me something. All training is valuable. That said, if you're licensed and experienced, just like on a resume, that counts for more than passing a course. Besides, most everyone has a slightly different experience in terms of bikes ridden, track time, safety courses, "home schoolin'", etc. We're all unique in that regard, just like everyone else.

Third, I do not have leathers. I only have a textile two piece Joe Rocket jacket with pants to match. They are completely padded but I thought I had heard it is required to have leathers on some group rides. If this is true, I will not have the opportunity to ride in a group.
If it's required, then get it or don't ride. I recommend and prefer leathers for the simple fact that leather has yet to be beat for durability in a crash on pavement. Leather is more expensive most times, but there's a definite value to that expense.

Lastly, I would not want to embarrass my fellow riders by slowing them down in the twisties due to my lack of experience in them.
To my understandning, a good leader will provide a solid briefing to all riders pre-ride. Included in the ride will be stop points at which the group will stop and wait until the last rider arrives. There is no shame in being last but crashing b/c you tried to ride above your abilities to match the group is expensive and shameful. A good group won't be embarrassed, they'll be supportive.

I could really use some input here from the ORG and not just some of the standard Videos that I have been looking at.

SS and 200MPH you guys are instructors and lead group rides correct?
I would very much value your opinions on this.
I very much value ALL the ORG members’ opinions too.

As you can see, I am not afraid to show my ignorance - specially since it is one of my more redeeming Qualities.

Thanks in advance, as I know you will come through.
You always have.
Bubba

Bottom line, any group is only as good as it's members and if the members are supportive, patient and understanding, you s/b fine. If they're not, you probably don't wanna be there, even if you're better than them! Some groups and rides are more intense or more casual than others. Group leaders should let you know ahead of time if they think you're a good candidate for the ride or not and if you're not, they may recommend a more appropriate ride. Finally, if you start a ride and it feels like it's too much, there's no shame in bowing out or continuing well behind the group. Just pre-arrange a way to communicate that to the group before the ride starts.

Like I said, I've never done group riding, but I plan to sometime in the near future and these on my thoughts on how to deal with the situations you mention.

Best of luck!

 

[Powers739]

From a quick Google Search...

Riding Skills Series: Group Riding
Proper Etiquette Not Only Increases The Fun But Can Also Save Lives
By Lance Holt
Photography by Kevin Wing
As someone who's been lucky enough to ride some of the top superbike and grand prix machinery on many of the world's finest racetracks, let me assure you that there's still nothing more pleasurable than riding on a favorite road in a group of familiar partners. Fortunately for me, as a frequent guest tester for Sport Rider, it's also a common occurrence.

Conversely, don't underestimate the danger that out-of-sync or unpredictable riding partners can cause you. I've heard and witnessed enough horror stories to have no tolerance for being around riders who I don't trust. They represent a greater potential threat than all other dangers combined, since our exposure to them is often for a longer duration in a variety of unpredictable circumstances. Editor Kunitsugu's experience with an egotistical rider at a BMW model launch-who nearly crashed himself and the group's leader off the road-is a prime example (Wheelspin, Aug. '05). But just to give you an image of the real potential danger, I've heard the first-hand account from a former SR staffer who saved the life of a fellow motorcyclist whose leg was severed from his body by an impact with his riding partner's bike. Next time you're wondering if you might be over-reacting, imagine yourself being a part of that grizzly scene to keep your perspective.



For photo composition purposes, we staged the staggered-rider formation a bit too tightly. Ideally, give yourself a two-second gap to the person directly in front of you and approximately one second to the person staggered to your side. Staggering allows a tighter formation and an improved field of vision.

That said, I prefer to focus on the positives, and there are few things as satisfying as following a group of well-ridden motorcycles as they precisely carve through a tricky set of corners, each tipping in and clipping apexes in seamless succession. Even more important, however, is that partners not surprise each other with unexpected moves or ride in each other's blind spots. I've been riding with Kunitsugu and SR guest tester Steve Mikolas for nearly 20 years and with Andrew Trevitt and SR guest tester Jim O'Connor for about half that. I'm confident no matter what surprise lurks around the next corner-a patch of sand, pool of oil or, as we just experienced, a deer skittering for traction with it's hooves clattering across the tarmac-that I know how each and every one of us will react a split second before we actually do. It's not just the years that we've ridden together that builds our trust, though it does help. There's also some basic group-riding etiquette that allows even newcomers to the group to fit right in.



Great roads and even better bikes are key ingredients for an enjoyable ride, but the most critical factor is being comfortable and confident with your fellow riding partners. Space yourselves out with at least a one- to two-second gap between you-and leave the who's-fastest competition for the track. When the road turns twisty, single-file formation works best.

The first key to riding harmony is communication among the riders. Don't be shy about initiating a discussion, setting the guidelines before the ride begins. Make sure everyone knows the final destination and the route to get there. Solicit comments from everyone; don't behave like a drill sergeant. Discuss any recent changes to the conditions of the road or law enforcement crackdowns.

Once you're rolling, the biggest communication factor will be visual: always know where the other riders are and what they are doing. This starts by making sure that you can see the rider behind in your mirror and see the reflection of the helmet of the rider in front in his mirror. That way you're visible in his peripheral vision at a glance without forcing him to turn his head to look for you or get distracted wondering where you are.

Visually, you want to be scanning well in front of the bike in front of you, not staring at the rider's back. Be aware of what the riders ahead are doing with your peripheral vision, but don't fixate on them. All riders' visual awareness needs to be at least two to six seconds ahead; the faster your speed, the farther ahead you need to look. Don't trust the lead rider to keep you out of trouble because by the time you see him react, you'll already be behind the eight ball. Ideally, you'll recognize the situation as a group and react as a group, while still individually minding your responsibilities to help keep yourself and everyone else out of trouble.



Keeping the person behind you in your mirror's field of view is actually the responsibility of the following rider and alleviates any question as to the follower's position. The leading rider is responsible for ensuring that the person behind hasn't lost touch with the group.

If you're riding in a multi-lane situation, let the leader choose the lane and the speed (within reason) and cue off him, moving as a group formation whenever possible rather than spreading out in multiple lanes. In passing situations, move as a group when the situations allow but realize that every rider is also individually responsible for his own judgment and personal safety.

Allow the leader to set the pace, but let everyone know that there's no pressure to keep up. Let everyone in the group know at the outset that you'll be stopping at each major intersection, giving anyone who's dropped behind time to catch up and eliminating the fear that they need to keep up or be left behind. This situation should also figure into the pace that the leader sets. It's more fun to ride as a group, and no one's ego gets bruised in the process. Likewise, everyone should be comfortable waving someone past any time they feel like backing it down. Our passing etiquette is to only pass when waved by, and we always pass on the left when the coast is clear. Never pass on the right side. It sounds like common sense to most of us, but you'd be surprised how many riders think otherwise.

Make sure everyone knows the difference between a street ride and a track day. The street is no place for competitive urges to push the pace up to elevated danger levels. This has happened a couple of times when new riders join the group, wanting to impress others with their speed; they always try to work their way up to the leader and then ride on his taillight as if he were Valentino Rossi preparing for a last lap pass to win the World Championship. Probably the best solution is to wave riders like this up to the front of the pack, then have the rest of group slow down, turn around and ride in the other direction.



When following, make sure that you can see the face shield of the leading rider's helmet in his mirror. You never want to be in his blind spot, which can make the lead rider uncomfortable or force him to turn his head to find you, potentially causing a distraction.

The first time I rode on a track, I realized that while riding on the street, I had no idea what fast was. Unlike many racers, I never stopped enjoying street rides; I just no longer had the need to get a speed fix unless I was on the track. It's likely no coincidence that most all of my favorite riding partners have race experience. We settled the who's-fastest question long ago and don't have anything else to prove.

The more riding experience I got, the more selective I became about who I chose to ride with. Who you ride with should be given at least as much-if not more-consideration as what you ride and where you ride. I've been fortunate to have cultivated a close bunch of riding partners who I absolutely trust with my life, which is good, because every time we ride together, that's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[Powers739]

Here is a link that might help...

Riding Etiquette

 

[djsin]

I ride with 20-30 bikes all the time...and always with atleast 3...only time Im alone is on my way home or too a ride with others...

 

[Scar]

Backatcha...

 

[BUBBA]

Well as usual the ORG has shown its true colors, and what beautiful colors they are.

Thanks everyone for your comments, suggestions and the links.

I have to say I feel less intimidated and I will be utilizing all your wisdom to gear up for group rides.

Thanks to all
acehole
jellyrug
badazgtp
nicksully
melodic
powers
djsin
and SCAR

I will definitely keep you guys posted after I do my first group ride.

One more note: Even though I haven’t ridden with them I know the guys are among the best, not just in terms of riding abilities (I have seen them ride) but also in terms of good people to be among.
I feel this probably a common thread throughout the ORG and wish I could attend some of the bashes and MnG’s going on around the country.
I think bigfishe said it and I agree – if I could find a way to make money doing this I would never be out of the saddle.

Thanks again ORG, cheers to all.

 

[MPH 200]

Ride at a pace you are comfortable w/ & let the ride leader & others know ahead of time. NEVER feel pressured to keep up, that is when people get hurt.
I always try to hang way back if I am riding behind a new rider so they don't feel pressured. We usually will pair up a more experienced rider w/ a newer rider that wants some pointers. I worked w/ a 17 year old yesterday on his lines & he did a great job.

Every group ride should have a "sweeper" that is the last person in the group. It is their job to make sure everyone is accounted for. Do not think the end of the group will be slower, it is actually faster, kind of like the tail of a snake. Always keep an eye on the guy behind you, & if he is too close, or you feel hurried, wave them around you at the next straight. If people are passing in the corners, leave & go home, these are not safe riders.

 

[BUBBA]

Ride at a pace you are comfortable w/ & let the ride leader & others know ahead of time. NEVER feel pressured to keep up, that is when people get hurt.
I always try to hang way back if I am riding behind a new rider so they don't feel pressured. We usually will pair up a more experienced rider w/ a newer rider that wants some pointers. I worked w/ a 17 year old yesterday on his lines & he did a great job.

Every group ride should have a "sweeper" that is the last person in the group. It is their job to make sure everyone is accounted for. Do not think the end of the group will be slower, it is actually faster, kind of like the tail of a snake. Always keep an eye on the guy behind you, & if he is too close, or you feel hurried, wave them around you at the next straight. If people are passing in the corners, leave & go home, these are not safe riders.

Thanks MPH200,

I don't mean to jack my own thread, but do you ever ride to Lake Travis?
Is the pyramid house still there? I used to scuba dive Lake Travis 20 yrs ago.
Still have an old Hippie Hollow Poster in my garage.

Thanks again for the advice and believe me I will be getting some training soon.
Bubba

 

[Lamb busa]

Bubba, just ride your pace and don't follow too closely. Think smooth and controlled throttle and steering. Having others know that you will hold a line and can ride consistent helps others ride that way around you.

 

[johnnybighit]

For your first run, stay in the back of the pack. This way, you're not going to bottle neck anyone behind you.

Try it. It can be nerve racking at first as you get to know your riding partners riding habits but once you gel, it'll be like a moving wave of testosterone. Practice makes perfect.

 

[BUBBA]

Thanks johnny I will try that.

Thanks lamb, means a lot coming from you considering the recent mishap.
It makes me feel more comfortable and I admire you and SCAR for the way you handled yourself and the way he was able to avoid you.
This is kind of why I started this thread because I would hope I could have done as well as you guys did and I began to question if I could. I have been in some very close calls many times but never to that extent.
Thanks again all
Bubba

 

[Bigfisch]

I think bigfish said it and I agree – if I could find a way to make money doing this I would never be out of the saddle.

Thanks again ORG, cheers to all.

Its all Scars fault! He started it!

Bubba, from the names you listed and what I have heard about most of those guys, you are in darn good hands!

 

[BUBBA]

Its all Scars fault! He started it!

Bubba, from the names you listed and what I have heard about most of those guys, you are in darn good hands!

Thanks Bigfisch,
I know you are right.
By the way, props to you for the ride you took just to get down here, I was in the saddle for only four hours on Saturday and I was a little sore and tired.
Good job Bro, and glad you made it home safely.
I will be in touch as to the next time I can make one of these rides.
Bubba

 

[ibified]

I always get left behind on group rides, so ive kinda quit bothering with it.