Self defense or murder?

[m_ridgeway]

Can't paste the article for some reason from my phone, but he was found guilty.

nvm got it

http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-man-foun...r-dispute-053934284--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[SLO MO]

Can't paste the article for some reason from my phone, but he was found guilty.

nvm got it

Texas Man Found Guilty for Killing Neighbor in Dispute - Yahoo!

A jury has convicted a Texas man for murdering his neighbor during a confrontation over loud music two years ago, rejecting a claim that he was within his rights to fatally shoot the man under Texas' version of a "stand-your-ground" law.
Raul Rodriguez, 47, faces up to life in prison for the killing of Kelly Danaher, 36. Sentencing is scheduled to begin today.

"I'm just glad he can't hurt anybody else," Danaher's wife, Mindy, said. "I love my husband, and I miss him so much ... and he helped all of us get through this today."
It took the jury less than six hours Wednesday to decide between self-defense and murder. Jurors, apparently agreeing with prosecutors that Rodriguez, a retired Houston-area firefighter, was a trigger-happy neighborhood bully.

"He felt like he had ultimate control, control to determine who lives and who dies," Donna Logan, Harris County Assistant District Attorney, said.
Rodriguez recorded the argument in May of 2010 when he killed Danaher, an elementary school teacher, and wounded two other people. The 22-minute homemade video was the key to the trial as Rodriguez's lawyers argued it was self-defense under Texas' version of the so-called stand-your-ground law, which is also at the center of the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

It was after midnight when Rodriguez, complaining to police via telephone that the music was too loud, walked up to Danaher's driveway with a flashlight and gun.
In the video, Rodriguez can be heard talking to a 911 operator, saying, "I'm running the video camera right now and I'm talking to you and I mean, I'm scared to death here."

In the unfolding confrontation between Rodriguez and several unidentified men, one yells, "Tell you what, pal, you just pulled a gun on the wrong [expletive], OK?"
When one of the party-goers saw Rodriguez's gun, he suggested he is getting his own. "When I go in that house and come back," he warned, "don't think I won't be equal to you, baby."

"It's about to get out of hand sir, please help me. Please help me, my life is in danger now ...," Rodriguez told police over the phone. "Now, I'm standing my ground here. Now, these people are going to try and kill me."
Seconds later, a fight about loud music ends with the crack of gunfire.

"Look, I'm not losing to these people anymore," Rodriguez said. "I'm just totally going to stay back, because they're drunk, they're ..."
Rodriguez is interrupted by wild laughter, and then the sound of gunfire, before the tape stops as Rodriguez is tackled to the ground. In addition to the shot that killed Danaher, Houston Fire Capt. Ricky Johnson and Marshall Stetson received multiple gunshot wounds after the camera stopped recording. Rodriguez, a father of six, walked away from the incident unharmed.

"This has eaten me up for two years," Johnson said. "Hopefully, now I can begin to heal from it."
The defense did not present much of a case as it called no witnesses and Rodriguez didn't testify. Legal experts say if defendants are going to successfully argue self-defense, the jury wants to hear from them.

 

[lil charlie]

Guess he got what was coming. It would have been different if he was in his own yard.

 

[twotonevert]

You cant claim self defense or fear for your life if you are the aggressor.

Sent from my DROIDX using Forum Runner

 

[Warchild]

You cant claim self defense or fear for your life if you are the aggressor.

Well...... maybe unless you're a white hispanic from FL.....


Glad this fireman asshat received the appropriate justice of his peers..... and, damnation, less than 6-hour deliberation, that tells me the prosecution did a pretty good job in this case.

 

[skydivr]

I think in this case the law worked as it should. It doesn't give anyone carte blanche.

We will never know in the Martin case as no one videoed it.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Well...... maybe unless you're a white hispanic from FL.....


Glad this fireman asshat received the appropriate justice of his peers..... and, damnation, less than 6-hour deliberation, that tells me the prosecution did a pretty good job in this case.

Really don't think the prosecution needed to do anything other than play the tape.
The jury knew what to decide and did it quickly because it was easy.

 

[mistaforty]

*opens can of worms* so does anyone think this is NOT virtually identical to the martin case? they both have the right to carry and defend themselves i get that as ive said before. but neither of them had to be where they were when they ended up having to defend themselves and BOTH of them put themselves in the situations that led to them having to defend themselves and they BOTH had ample opportunities to disengage and/or arguably shouldve never engaged at all.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Different. One walked down street to confront drunk partiers and another was watching neighborhood and approached a suspicious person.

 

[mistaforty]

Different. One walked down street to confront drunk partiers and another was watching neighborhood and approached a suspicious person.

South Florida's law enforcement agencies tell their sanctioned Citizens on Patrol volunteer programs, as well as local neighborhood watches: Report suspicious activity to 911. Don't play police officer. Don't pursue.

"They're told not to intervene, only to report suspicious activity," said Broward sheriff's spokeswoman Veda Coleman-Wright. "They're prohibited from carrying weapons."

Trayvon Martin: South Florida neighborhood watch volunteers told not to pursue - Sun Sentinel

similar information is on almost every neighborhood watch in every area. now some of them maybe updates since this event, but I know that most training states similar info for anyone that is not sworn LE.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Being told not to do anything and ignoring that isn't a crime nor does it infer guilt.

 

[mistaforty]

Being told not to do anything and ignoring that isn't a crime nor does it infer guilt.

but then isnt the confrontation a direct result of his negligence?

 

[Ezduzit]

Lately this forum has been showing the true colors of members on this board. It is pretty sad.

Seems to be a lot of that lately.

Sent from my busa!

 

[SLO MO]

*opens can of worms* so does anyone think this is NOT virtually identical to the martin case? they both have the right to carry and defend themselves i get that as ive said before. but neither of them had to be where they were when they ended up having to defend themselves and BOTH of them put themselves in the situations that led to them having to defend themselves and they BOTH had ample opportunities to disengage and/or arguably shouldve never engaged at all.

See here is were people start to go left and opinion differs, the point you just made is what I kept saying from the beginning, and in the other case although the entire incident was not filmed it was clear from Zimm's initial statements and the full 911 call that he called the police, followed and actively pursed Martin. It was not until the incident got out and people started pointing out (wait a minute how can you hunt someone down initiate contact with someone, then when you realize you bit of more than you can chew you kill them and say it was self defense?) then his representation had an "uh oh" moment and realized the story has to change.

When you carry, you are to avoid putting your self in situations where that fire arm would have to be used, in both these cases the shooters did the opposite, they threw themselves right in the middle of it and were the "cause" for the "reaction" I don't know if it was the Super man feeling of having a firearm and a law that can be manipulated to commit murder or just being a complete idiot about what they were doing but either way no one can dispute the fact that if either of these guys chose not to seek out the victims, lives would not have been lost and the family of the deceased and shooters would not be turned upside down.

This is my hypothesis, unfortunately you have a lot of pure suckers that carry legally and illegally, (these are the dangerous ones) see their heart pumps 100% red juice AKA (Kool aid) and they are as soft as warm butter, probably been picked on all their life or intimidated, so when they get a firearm they feel like a new man, their chest sticks out a little further, they do things they would not dare do with out one and a lot of those types start to look for trouble as sort of redemption to a life of feeling less than manly.

 

[Warchild]

*opens can of worms* so does anyone think this is NOT virtually identical to the martin case? they both have the right to carry and defend themselves i get that as ive said before. but neither of them had to be where they were when they ended up having to defend themselves and BOTH of them put themselves in the situations that led to them having to defend themselves and they BOTH had ample opportunities to disengage and/or arguably shouldve never engaged at all.

There are indeed a lot of parallels to the Zimmerman case, as you have correctly identified above.

Now, I have not seen the below information before.... this is a bit of an eye-opener:

South Florida's law enforcement agencies tell their sanctioned Citizens on Patrol volunteer programs, as well as local neighborhood watches: Report suspicious activity to 911. Don't play police officer. Don't pursue.

"They're told not to intervene, only to report suspicious activity," said Broward sheriff's spokeswoman Veda Coleman-Wright. "They're prohibited from carrying weapons."

Hmmmm..... They're prohibited from carrying weapons." That's interesting. I wonder if the prosecution team will be mentioning this during the trial....

Even more interesting is what is stated further down in that article by the executive director of the National Sheriff's Association (who heads up the Neighborhood Watch Program):

Zimmerman's actions were against guidelines followed by countless volunteer programs across the United States, according to the National Sheriffs' Association, a nonprofit which officially launched the Neighborhood Watch Program in 1972.

In a recent statement, Aaron D. Kennard, the association's executive director, referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman" who "significantly contradicts the principles" of watch programs.

Kennard said the association had no record of Zimmerman's group registering as a neighborhood watch.

"The alleged participant ignored everything the Neighborhood Watch Program stands for, and it resulted in a young man losing his life," Kennard wrote.

Say what? They have no record of Zimmerman's group registering as a neighborhood watch? ??? If Zimmerman (or his "group") was not trained/sanctioned by a recognized Neighborhood Watch Program authority, then it seems he at least begins to approach the definition of vigilante.

I think the Vegas odds on a not guilty verdict happening here are looking less attractive.

 

[Big Bo]

Kinda like Zimmerman, keep your ass at home, and listen to LEOs.

It is a different beast if you are approached by a badguy.

 

[skydivr]

Is it all going to come down to "who thru the first punch"?

 

[lankeeyankee]

He made the first mistake by taping it with his cheasy acting. 6 hours for the jury to determine if he was guilty? What did they talk about the rest of the 5 hours and 55 minutes?
The guy was an idiot just more tax dollars to support a moron in jail.

 

[nabusa]

*opens can of worms* so does anyone think this is NOT virtually identical to the martin case? they both have the right to carry and defend themselves i get that as ive said before. but neither of them had to be where they were when they ended up having to defend themselves and BOTH of them put themselves in the situations that led to them having to defend themselves and they BOTH had ample opportunities to disengage and/or arguably shouldve never engaged at all.

It is pretty identical. But those who want to kill because the law lets them will say otherwise and defend that law. Just look at the responses. Example,"one less waste of life gone". But what do I know I am just a liberal apparently because I value human life.

 

[masterblaster]

Zimmerman was in his neighborhood, a gated community which is all private property, he was within his right to confront a stranger in that neighborhood. Don't think he should have shot Trevon but think he was legal doing it. Glad this asshat in Texas got what he deserved, George Z will walk. He will suffer in the afterlife.