Self defense or murder?

[RussellJ]

Hey, that redneck guy was innocent. Hell, he probably had skittles and a tea in his hands...

[Rainbow7]

Both shooters either were eager to shoot someone or were not man enough to back up their antagonizing of others.

Who says Zimmerman was "eager to shoot someone"? Who says he "antagonized" anyone? Douchebag.

[masterblaster]

"Liberal" "Douchbag" your vocabulary is regressing to 17 years old now. Please don't quote me unless you have something intelligent to say, agree or disagree I don't care just be a little civil.

Who says Zimmerman was "eager to shoot someone"? Who says he "antagonized" anyone? Douchebag.

[lankeeyankee]

Name calling..... :rulez8bn:

LMAO!!!! Someone get me a beer

[BUSA CRUSEN]

Why are some people jumping on the bandwagon of CCW people having bad shootings now? How many questionable shootings have their been per millions of CCW holders? Saying this guy planned to kill his neighbor? Grow up people. This guy was legally on the street doing nothing illegal at all. We as Americans should be able to stand our ground on public property. I don't think I would have done what he did, but he had the right to do it. Why doesn't anybody discuss how it is the drunk guys fault and not the shooter? Why do we have to blame the victim and not the aggressor just because the dead guy chose to be a stupid drunk? Does getting drunk and doing stupid crap now pose as a good excuse to get out of the trouble that you cause?

There is so much here that doesn't show the whole story. Did they come at him with weapons? Was he backing away at the time? Was his back turned and he was he walking away? Was he really flashing his gun and showing aggression? How many times did he call the police on these guys that night? Did he ask them to turn down the music? Did the drunks turn into zombies at the last second? There are all kinds of questions I have here, but with what I can tell I would say to bad so sad, don't get drunk and attack people that you know are armed.

[nabusa]

Lately this forum has been showing the true colors of members on this board. It is pretty sad.

[Gpmo]

"Liberal" "Douchbag" your vocabulary is regressing to 17 years old now. Please don't quote me unless you have something intelligent to say, agree or disagree I don't care just be a little civil.

Don't mind him. He's just trolling you, that's all he does. Antagonize and try to get people to say nasty things.

[Gpmo]

I'm not sure what to think on this one. I've watched the video several times but feel there are a bunch of things missing. Im sure more facts will come out it it goes to court.

I do know that a good way to get the annoying party neighbors to be more respectful is to show up right around 8 am and ring the bell they answer then ask politely if they will change their party habits . I live in a college town and have used this method successfully multiple times. Also I'm much more tolerant when they inform me in advance. It's amazing what some civil communication will do .

[mistaforty]

this is just like the martin case in principle. once it came down to it yes he had the right to defend himself and he did. BUT he put himself in that situation there were several points he could and shouldve left and now his life is changed forever over loud music. would i grab my gun(s) to go tell my neighbor to turn the music down? no. I think there is more to the story between him and his neighbors. he does say ive asked you to turn it down and i told you to turn it down so its not as cut and dry as this is the first random encounter

[mistaforty]

Why doesn't anybody discuss how it is the drunk guys fault and not the shooter? Why do we have to blame the victim and not the aggressor just because the dead guy chose to be a stupid drunk? Does getting drunk and doing stupid crap now pose as a good excuse to get out of the trouble that you cause?

Theres a reason your CC permit stipulates u dont carry in establishments that serve alchohol. even if YOURE not drinking others are. again he definitely had the right to defend himself but is it wise to go confront drunkards armed over music? the people that are wrong here are the local LE they neither protected nor served this citizen in a timely fashion (from the information given)

[Blanca BusaLess]

I don't understand how everyone can say he had the right or he was legally there or whatever.
How about insisting on some common sense no matter the law.

[RussellJ]

Name calling..... :rulez8bn:

LMAO!!!! Someone get me a beer

I got it for ya!

I can't remember the name of the drinking emoticon but I do have popcorn!

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Forum Runner

[Rainbow7]

Lately this forum has been showing the true colors of members on this board. It is pretty sad.

I agree. - It is sad to see ostensibly intelligent people spouting ill-informed, emotionally-based, liberal opinions. On the other hand, at least we now know who and what they are.

[Ezduzit]

Lately this forum has been showing the true colors of members on this board. It is pretty sad.

*1

Sent from my busa!

[skydivr]

Ok, I finally got to watch the video. While the shoot may eventually be ruled legal (if the drunks rushed him across the street onto the shooters property, then it may be ruled legal), the shooter is a damn FOOL, and he gives most all other CCW holder's a bad name. He had PLENTY of opportunity to defuse the situation and chose not to BECAUSE he had a gun. The partygoes could have also defused the situation by going back to their party and ignoring the guy until the cops come. Drinking so much that you lose control of yourself is never a good idea, and in this case, a fatal mistake by someone.

The problem with making a law is now, because of a few fools, the limits of the law will be tested, and there will be another law made to change the first law, and so on and so on. The original intent of the law was to protect people who found themselves with no other alternative but to shoot. I don't see that in this case. I'm with Lankee; if I were on the jury, this guy is guilty of something (manslaughter).

[SLO MO]

Watched the video, the shooter should be convicted, he had plenty of opportunity to defuse the situation by simply leaving before further escalation. seems like he hung around to use his weapon, he came to them they did not come to him. These people are really making it tough for those with firearms, common sense and not looking to get their rocks off by body bagging some one. I have been carrying a firearm form many years and never have I put myself in a situation like this and I have had neighbors that had loud parties and guest even blocking my drive way.

I simple walked over found the home owner, and said "hey the music is a little loud and some of your guest are blocking my drive way, can you have the DJ make an announcement for them to move the cars, thanks". They moved the cars but the music did not go down, I called the Police and let them do the job I pay them to do, in my case it's 1 AM people are drunk why go over and trying to rationalize with drunk people makes no sense, its either going to lead to a fight or argument and with most people somebody will get shot.

Common sense really goes along way but I think some people just have this vigilante thing going now and they just want a reason to shoot and because of the interpretation of certain laws they are able to put themselves in situations were you already now what the end result will be. It's obvious he was making sure he was using words to help the self defense cause but its pretty much a premeditated murder masked as self defense, whether he had to or not he had every opportunity to leave, his presence and the brandishing of a firearm as they other guy clearly states he is doing further escalates this.

[skydivr]

It's kinda like drawing a line on the ground and daring someone to cross it...."I dare you..."

[lil charlie]

Common sense was missing from both sides and without more information it is impossible to determine guilt or innocence for either party. I will wait for all of the facts to come out during the trial. Taken at face value I would say the guy was not as scared as he claimed to be and that he should have return home but at the same time we don’t know if the person who appeared to attack him had a weapon or not.

[The Big Red One]

Watched the video, the shooter should be convicted, he had plenty of opportunity to defuse the situation by simply leaving before further escalation. seems like he hung around to use his weapon, he came to them they did not come to him. These people are really making it tough for those with firearms, common sense and not looking to get their rocks off by body bagging some one. I have been carrying a firearm form many years and never have I put myself in a situation like this and I have had neighbors that had loud parties and guest even blocking my drive way.

I simple walked over found the home owner, and said "hey the music is a little loud and some of your guest are blocking my drive way, can you have the DJ make an announcement for them to move the cars, thanks". They moved the cars but the music did not go down, I called the Police and let them do the job I pay them to do, in my case it's 1 AM people are drunk why go over and trying to rationalize with drunk people makes no sense, its either going to lead to a fight or argument and with most people somebody will get shot.

Common sense really goes along way but I think some people just have this vigilante thing going now and they just want a reason to shoot and because of the interpretation of certain laws they are able to put themselves in situations were you already now what the end result will be. It's obvious he was making sure he was using words to help the self defense cause but its pretty much a premeditated murder masked as self defense, whether he had to or not he had every opportunity to leave, his presence and the brandishing of a firearm as they other guy clearly states he is doing further escalates this.

I also conceal carry....I had an instance a few years ago where I could have legally pulled my weapon and possibly used it, but you're taught you're weapon is your last line of defense, and I had the option left of not responding to the group of aggressors (threatening drunk harley dudes) and trying to get on my bike and ride away. They were pretty close and I was quite ready to draw if anyone made a move........but I got on my bike, started it, and left without needing to shoot anyone. I could have easily pulled my gun to show them who was boss and shot someone, but thats not why I carry. Plus that could have potentially changed my life forever I carry to protect my life and the lives of the ones with me. In 10 years of carry I've never had to once draw my gun...although if I wanted to teach someone a "lesson" I could have had a couple opportunities.
Having a CCW doesn't give you the right to kill.

[Warchild]

Hard to comment with assurance since we don't know what happened before/after the video, though this seems to have a number of parallels with the Zimmerman case. My inclination is that the retired firefighter was a dumbazz, he shoulda just walked away (or even better, not come out of the house to begin with, rather, just let the po-po do their thang).

Now, if the drunks actually bum-rushed him onto the dumbazz fireman's property, I could see a jury deciding the shooting was fairly justified (though the asshat fireman shares some the blame by brandishing a weapon to what he *knew* was bunch of obnoxious drunks at the party).

Jeeze....... only in Texas.....