I hate violence, but not scared

[riccoh]

So I live in Hawaii, divers don't care about bikes. Today I almost totaled my bike when a driver cuts me off and I had to jump into incoming lanes of traffic. I recover and long and behold, we hit a red light next to each other, I give him the number one after a few words, he puts his phone down and gets out of his car with some black stick, as he gets around the front of his car I get my 92sf vertek out of my jacket and put my kick stand down, as he raises his stick, he notices a little black 9MM on his face, and he drops the stick, I made him get on his car and took a pic of his license plate and his face, and had the driver behind him call 911. he left the scene and I almost got arrested for defending myself. Now I have to go to court and face charges, but at least i didn't get jack or hurt and there are witnesses on my defense...COP wanted to take my gun and C/C permit on the spot.

 

[Flicka]

What are the charges?

 

[TruWrecks]

Charges would be "brandishing a firearm". In the above situation it would be justified. The cop obviously wants to support taking firearms from civilians. If a firearm is taken by the police it is a pain in the ass to get it back. The firearms sometimes get lost in the system forever. If they destroy the gun prematurely the police will not make restitution to the civilian. BTDT.

 

[BusaWizard]

Sounds like a case of self defense.

 

[riccoh]

t/t w/use of excessive force, which here is auto to be taken in but after the commotion and the watch commander come to the scene, and about 12 people speaking on my behalf, I have a court appearance tom morning. I'm a small arms instructor in the navy and also work part time at a range and since I have to travel with weapons/ammo I decided to get my C/C permit 3 years ago, this is the first time I had to use my weapon out in public. but the laws here are a bit backwards, you have no right to defend your property with the use of force/deadly force, and if someone breaks into your house, then you are supposed to find a way out of your house and ask for police. Yea that plays diff in my house. since there are a few weapons around. I don't need safes since we have no children (yet) and they are not easily visible, unless you look really look under sofa cushions and pillows....lol. I think I will fair good, I had to brief my CO today on this, and to me a 6'2" person around 300 LBS and a black jack on his hands, I will consider him a deadly since I'm 5'6" about 183.

 

[BusaWizard]

Yep, sounds like you were in fear for your life. You were protecting yourself, not your property.

 

[BusaBret]

First of all I hope it works out for you. Sounds like a bad situation.
Secondly, and by no means am I putting you down, but as a licensed CC I do not believe anyone should just pull their weapon. If you felt threatened enough to pull it then you should have used it. It sounds as though you had other options and chose not to use them. The only reason I bring this up is it may very well be what you hear in your hearing tomorrow.

 

[TruWrecks]

If he was coming at you with a weapon of any kind, he was a threat to your life! Nothing less. He wasn't coming to damage your property. He was going to cause you life threatening injuries. You have no way of knowing anything different in the heat of the moment.

You did the right thing. Make sure the officer supplies the court with the all of the witness statements.

 

[BusaWizard]

First of all I hope it works out for you. Sounds like a bad situation.
Secondly, and by no means am I putting you down, but as a licensed CC I do not believe anyone should just pull their weapon. If you felt threatened enough to pull it then you should have used it. It sounds as though you had other options and chose not to use them. The only reason I bring this up is it may very well be what you hear in your hearing tomorrow.

He may not have had other options with a guy coming at him with a tire iron, or whatever it was he had in his hand. And drawing his weapon, and not killing the guy but stopping the threat may have saved his life. Although I know you're not suppose to draw your weapon unless you intend on using it, I guess if the guy would have continued to advance he have been forced to use it.

 

[TruWrecks]

Although I know you're not suppose to draw your weapon unless you intend on using it, I guess if the guy would have continued to advance he have been forced to use it.

Pull a CCW to stop an immediate threat to your own safety is legal. Firing it brings on a whole different level of legal issues.

 

[BusaBret]

He may not have had other options with a guy coming at him with a tire iron, or whatever it was he had in his hand. And drawing his weapon, and not killing the guy but stopping the threat may have saved his life. Although I know you're not suppose to draw your weapon unless you intend on using it, I guess if the guy would have continued to advance he have been forced to use it.

To get my point across imagine this is a courtroom with the attitude of such. Did he have options? He didn't HAVE to pull up beside him and "give him the number one after a few words". What did he say to the other guy to get this reaction from him?? Did the other guy feel threatened by a biker dude with their reputation? When the guy got out of his vehicle he was still on his bike. He could have pulled away. Agreed not the manly thing to do but certainly doable. NOW DO YOU GET MY POINT??????

 

[BusaWizard]

I understand your point, but under the same token the guy didn't have to brandish a weapon either. Was he wrong for giving him the finger, yes, but it definitely didn't call for the guy to exit his vehicle with a weapon. He may not have been able to drive off without being struck by this guy. It's easy to say what you should have done, but when you're in a possible life threating situation you may think again. Bottom line is by drawing his weapon he may have saved his life, or serious personal injury.

 

[BusaBret]

I agree with that completely but that is part of the responsibility that comes when we decide to carry a weapon. That is one of the 1st things taught in any defensive class usually right after safety.

 

[BusaBret]

Riccoh,

Sorry for taking over your thread. None of us were there and have no right to judge your actions. You have my best wishes that this turns out the best for you!

 

[BusaWizard]

Yes I know, I have my CCW also. And we went through several different what ifs. It can definitely be argued either way, by drawing his weapon he stopped an immediate threat. Agian he was in fear for his life.

 

[Flicka]

I understand your point, but under the same token the guy didn't have to brandish a weapon either. Was he wrong for giving him the finger, yes, but it definitely didn't call for the guy to exit his vehicle with a weapon. He may not have been able to drive off without being struck by this guy. It's easy to say what you should have done, but when you're in a possible life threating situation you may think again. Bottom line is by drawing his weapon he may have saved his life, or serious personal injury.

+1

With a few honest witnesses, I'd say you should be fine in court. I also have my carry permit, but can't say for sure if I would've done the same thing. I'm 6'2" 320, so I guess it just depends on the stick. Either way, I definitely would've been ready to draw in an instant. Also, I think getting off of the bike is probably the way to go. Even if he can't hit you before you take off, who's to say what would happen on down the road. You shouldn't have to ride in a manner that endangers your life or that of anyone else because of another driver.

 

[BusaWizard]

Ok, then the guy decides he wants to take it out on your unattended motorcycle, or decides he wants to chase you down and beat the crap out you. What if he draws his weapon then and shot this guy, would it be justified then????

 

[Flicka]

Defending the bike...unfortunately no shots fired. I know, I know, we'd all want to.

If he's chasing me, I will defend myself. Car vs Busa = Deadly Force.

 

[BusaWizard]

My point exactly, why let it get to that level, he was able to stop a threat before it got that far out of hand, and the guy gets to go home and think about how stupid that was to bring a knife to a gun fight. Maybe next time when he gets the finger for doing something stupid, he'll just return the favor.

 

[Flicka]

Agreed.

Riccoh, I really hope this works out well for you. Keep us posted.

ChattanoogaBusa Out.