The Big Red One
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Both the busa's are capable of wayyy faster 1/4 mile times than Greg Moon (the MotorCyclist test rider) did on them for sure
2008 Hayabusa vs ZX-14 on the dyno
- Thread starter rotts4u
- Start date
BusaDudeBrazil
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I guess our friend who posted the graphs has used a 06/07 ZX14 instead of a 08...
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The Busa power commander (2007 GSXR1000 PC actually) plugged in just fine and all was well but for some reason the 2006 ZX-14 Power Commander caused the ZX-14 not to run at all. So we were unable to map the ZX-14 . And as you see the air fuel curve on it is really rich and no doubt a lot of power is being lost. You can see exactly at the point the air fuel goes rich the power starts to lose its upward slope and it noses over.
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And btw, dynos are indeed a pretty good way to measure a bike's power, but like NightCrawler said - that is the reason why dyno's exist, if i took my bike to a shop where they dyno it in one dyno, tweak the bike and dyno at another one to show me the difference i would be mad - i would've wanted to see it get dynoed at the SAME dyno and conditions as the first measure, that way i can pay attention to the GAINS instead of the difference in measures.
Now for calling it BS, it is just our friend's real world experience with two barely broken-in bikes, 250 miles and the numbers seem pretty low (taken at the same dyno, this can be explained by this dyno being very demanding, none of the bikes seem to have common sense measures from what we've seen around.
08 Busa - i've seen 177 - 181 around the web, not less than that.
06 ZX14 - i've seen it range from 165 - 172, not less than that.
What does that tell? Nothing, the torque from the stock 06 ZX14 was 102 and the 08 Busa 100, so go figure. We should all be comparing the 08 ZX14 with the Busa instead of the 06/07, and we should all start thinking of the stock dyno numbers as start points for making gains, the manufacturers will map the stock bike to meet regulations, it will depend where they will sell the bike, we should only be taking as hard facts the measures when the biles are piped and mapped with a PC, both at the same dyno, same day, around same conditions.
Nobody did that so far - the conclusion i have drawn from looking at numbers randomly posted is that both 08 ZX14 and 08 Busa can do 200 rwhp if piped and mapped, and the torque figures are around 110 ft/lbs.
So same dynamic from 99-07 Busa against 06-07 ZX14, with less of a power difference towards one bike now, and both bikes being the most powerful and probably the fastest production bikes on the street, at least stock, and again the looks will dictate the choice for an unbiased chooser - the zookers will stick to the Busa and the rest of the world to its Ivan Drago, the ZX14.
<div class="iF-Passage"><div class="QUOTEHEAD">Quote:[/Quote]<div class="QUOTE clearfix"><span class="quoteBegin"> </span>
The Busa power commander (2007 GSXR1000 PC actually) plugged in just fine and all was well but for some reason the 2006 ZX-14 Power Commander caused the ZX-14 not to run at all. So we were unable to map the ZX-14 . And as you see the air fuel curve on it is really rich and no doubt a lot of power is being lost. You can see exactly at the point the air fuel goes rich the power starts to lose its upward slope and it noses over.
[/quote]
And btw, dynos are indeed a pretty good way to measure a bike's power, but like NightCrawler said - that is the reason why dyno's exist, if i took my bike to a shop where they dyno it in one dyno, tweak the bike and dyno at another one to show me the difference i would be mad - i would've wanted to see it get dynoed at the SAME dyno and conditions as the first measure, that way i can pay attention to the GAINS instead of the difference in measures.
Now for calling it BS, it is just our friend's real world experience with two barely broken-in bikes, 250 miles and the numbers seem pretty low (taken at the same dyno, this can be explained by this dyno being very demanding, none of the bikes seem to have common sense measures from what we've seen around.
08 Busa - i've seen 177 - 181 around the web, not less than that.
06 ZX14 - i've seen it range from 165 - 172, not less than that.
What does that tell? Nothing, the torque from the stock 06 ZX14 was 102 and the 08 Busa 100, so go figure. We should all be comparing the 08 ZX14 with the Busa instead of the 06/07, and we should all start thinking of the stock dyno numbers as start points for making gains, the manufacturers will map the stock bike to meet regulations, it will depend where they will sell the bike, we should only be taking as hard facts the measures when the biles are piped and mapped with a PC, both at the same dyno, same day, around same conditions.
Nobody did that so far - the conclusion i have drawn from looking at numbers randomly posted is that both 08 ZX14 and 08 Busa can do 200 rwhp if piped and mapped, and the torque figures are around 110 ft/lbs.
So same dynamic from 99-07 Busa against 06-07 ZX14, with less of a power difference towards one bike now, and both bikes being the most powerful and probably the fastest production bikes on the street, at least stock, and again the looks will dictate the choice for an unbiased chooser - the zookers will stick to the Busa and the rest of the world to its Ivan Drago, the ZX14.
I am sorry all of you feel like there was some agenda here. If anything I would have thought the dyno operator would have a bias TOWARD the ZX-14 not against it. The ZX-14 was owned by the dyno owner and the Busa was mine.
I watched him make the runs back to back and no funny business was done. I have no axe to grind either way and there are usually just as many Kawasaki's in my garage as there are Suzuki's. I have owned a ZX-10 nitrous bike a turbo ZX-12 and currently I have a 07 ZX-6 so I am not exactly a Suzuki diehard either.
We just reported what happened on two stock bikes and both were 2008 models not a 2007 ZX-14 as claimed earlier. Again I am sorry everyone feels scammed but we will wait and see what other dynos report to see if this is consistent or not. As for the numbers being low overall, this dyno is known to be very conservative overall when compared to others so it doesnt surprise me that the busa only pulled 170 here. Motorcyclist got 172 on their busa and of course it had more miles than our 290ish bike. But the point is these were ran back to back and are good for comparing one bike to the other. Not comparing this dyno number to somebody else's dyno numbers.
I watched him make the runs back to back and no funny business was done. I have no axe to grind either way and there are usually just as many Kawasaki's in my garage as there are Suzuki's. I have owned a ZX-10 nitrous bike a turbo ZX-12 and currently I have a 07 ZX-6 so I am not exactly a Suzuki diehard either.
We just reported what happened on two stock bikes and both were 2008 models not a 2007 ZX-14 as claimed earlier. Again I am sorry everyone feels scammed but we will wait and see what other dynos report to see if this is consistent or not. As for the numbers being low overall, this dyno is known to be very conservative overall when compared to others so it doesnt surprise me that the busa only pulled 170 here. Motorcyclist got 172 on their busa and of course it had more miles than our 290ish bike. But the point is these were ran back to back and are good for comparing one bike to the other. Not comparing this dyno number to somebody else's dyno numbers.
I don't feel there is an agenda here at all. Same dyno same day. Bikes both bought from dealers.
It does look like there is an issue the 14 however. Almost like the secondary plates were not opening above 8k. Was it possibly in a gear that is programmed to prevent the plates from opening fully?
Don't mind the few that seem to be jerks about this. I appreciate you sharing your results.
It is very interesting how close the Busa is in stock form and after tuning.
Thanks for sharing!
Speak for yourself. I thought it was a good post - just one guy sharing his experience. I have no idea why you came in here to **** all over his thread.
Rotts4u, thanks for sharing!
I am amazed at a couple of responses in this thread. That shows a lack of respect for material submitted. Whether you agree with it are not, you could choose your words a bit more carefully and not come off being so offensive in your reply.
I'm very disappointed. This is not the type of response I expect out of H.org members.
I'm very disappointed. This is not the type of response I expect out of H.org members.
I posted the info only to bring the facts to the table. Not to discredit the Kawi or prop up the busa. It was just the facts as ran on these two bike yesterday.
I also think the Kawi appears to have a lot of potential and it will easily gain a lot of the power back as soon as the air fuel issue is fixed. Either by mapping, a new air filter etc etc. Something is causing that to be that rich and it happend on this bike as well as the one that was posted on by Ricky G himself over on another site. So there must be something going on with regard to air fuel.
I will be anxious to see if the 10-11hp difference that we saw gets confirmed by another independent source.
I also think the Kawi appears to have a lot of potential and it will easily gain a lot of the power back as soon as the air fuel issue is fixed. Either by mapping, a new air filter etc etc. Something is causing that to be that rich and it happend on this bike as well as the one that was posted on by Ricky G himself over on another site. So there must be something going on with regard to air fuel.
I will be anxious to see if the 10-11hp difference that we saw gets confirmed by another independent source.
Torque wins races... not HP.
BusaDudeBrazil
Registered
If the 14 is a 08 model, we are talking about a 10 rwhp difference between the two 08 bikes.
If the dyno showed the Busa at 180 and the 14 at 170, both stock, we would be discussing the 10 hp difference between the bikes, which is what matters here - so lets just assume this is a very conservative dyno and start discussing the 10 rwhp difference between the bikes.
With that in mind, i am surprised to see such a difference, and it might very well be that the 14 is suffering from one factor that is taking away a few ponnies, the difference in power between the two bikes is not that much, it should be in the 4 or 5 ponnies range.
Though, no matter what dyno and its figures, there INDEED IS a real difference in power towards the Busa, at every single power measure i've seen so far - but then again i am just quoting numbers i've read, i am yet to ride both bikes.
If the dyno showed the Busa at 180 and the 14 at 170, both stock, we would be discussing the 10 hp difference between the bikes, which is what matters here - so lets just assume this is a very conservative dyno and start discussing the 10 rwhp difference between the bikes.
With that in mind, i am surprised to see such a difference, and it might very well be that the 14 is suffering from one factor that is taking away a few ponnies, the difference in power between the two bikes is not that much, it should be in the 4 or 5 ponnies range.
Though, no matter what dyno and its figures, there INDEED IS a real difference in power towards the Busa, at every single power measure i've seen so far - but then again i am just quoting numbers i've read, i am yet to ride both bikes.
I'm not calling BS on the #'s, I'm just shocked the 08 ZX14 was that weak. If you want to run them again both in 5th gear to help the Kawi, that would be great. I didn't mean to start a war here just thought he 14 #'s were low IMO.
Thanks for the info and write-up.
Keep up the good work and post more pics...
Thanks for the info and write-up.
Well the 14 is not mine and the dyno is not mine so if he runs it again it will be up to him the dyno shop owner. But he did give me a update
A call to Dynojet and they advised there is a grounding issue on the zx-14 and the powercommander has to be grounded somewhere else to make it work and that the 06-07 powercommander unit is supposed to work as is. I just talked to the owner and he is trying to get time today to install the PC and get it back on the dyno for some tuning. If I get any more updates I will post the data or chart
A call to Dynojet and they advised there is a grounding issue on the zx-14 and the powercommander has to be grounded somewhere else to make it work and that the 06-07 powercommander unit is supposed to work as is. I just talked to the owner and he is trying to get time today to install the PC and get it back on the dyno for some tuning. If I get any more updates I will post the data or chart
Nice post, thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see how the bike (14R) comes out after some tuning or even a different gear. First I think he should try a different gear, if that's what's controlling the flies.
I hate to say it but you also should have your bike back over there for a run on the same day...just to be consistent.
Great write up, too bad you're getting so much flak.
Keep up the great work. This is the first (that I know of) back to back, side by side comparo.
I hate to say it but you also should have your bike back over there for a run on the same day...just to be consistent.
Great write up, too bad you're getting so much flak.
Keep up the great work. This is the first (that I know of) back to back, side by side comparo.
select20
Registered
But HP wins races to top end, no if, and's or but's about that. And yes of course Aero dynamics to a certain extent. But to 186mph HP will get you there faster, not torque. Thats the reason Low hp/ high tq bikes have no top end i.e. alot of V-twins bikes are like that.
Don't sweat the flack Rotts... No matter what the outcome of the dyno runs between the two bikes, I feel you were fair and honest with your write-up.. The pic's make a world of difference when you posted in my mind.. Keep up the good posts...
Day two update. The dyno operator Mark at Dynomasters called me back today and he got the Power commander working. So back to the dyno to map the bike tonight. I did not re run the Busa but here is the graph today with yesterday's 14 data on it too. As you can see the air fuel cleaned up a LOT and the bike gained some HP. He spent over 2 hours mapping the bike to do everything possible to get the most power he could. He also ran it in 4th and 5th gear as someone asked about and it made no difference. So the bike is making more HP but still several short of the Busa even mapped.
We also got another confirmation run today on a different dyno and they too are reporting lower HP on the 2008 ZX-14 compared to the 08 Busa. The dyno reads a little happier than this one but the difference stock for stock was still about 8-9hp. About the same as we saw.
So here is the Dyno of the 14 mapped and notice the Air fuel is now much closer to ideal compared to before.
We also got another confirmation run today on a different dyno and they too are reporting lower HP on the 2008 ZX-14 compared to the 08 Busa. The dyno reads a little happier than this one but the difference stock for stock was still about 8-9hp. About the same as we saw.
So here is the Dyno of the 14 mapped and notice the Air fuel is now much closer to ideal compared to before.
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