THE FINAL ZX-12/HAYABUSA ANSWER

[OB_DC]

Tomorrow (Friday March 17), MCN will bring together a year 2000 Hayabusa (remember, if the Kawasaki is restricted, so may the Hayabusa be), a ZX-12R and Super Blackbird (if they are restricted the Blackbird is back in the hat). We will do all the usual speed tests, 1/4 miles and real world riding on the road comparisons. We will publish the results in the issue of March 22, 2000. If you can't buy a copy, results will appear on the web at motorcyclenews.com.
For the record: my understanding is that when Kawasaki tested the ZX-12R at 190.8mph at Alconbury airstrip, Huntingdon, Cambs last Friday there was another motorcycle there. No one is saying so, at least officially, but IF that happened to be a Hayabusa, well, the Kawasaki was the fastest bike there on that day...
Still, final verdict by Wednesday, I promise. Maybe earlier if I get a chance.

 

[sherm]

DC they could save a lot of time and money. Kawabuser just declared the "fact" that busa is the winner. That should be enough.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Aren't MCN the people who reported getting 200.1 mph on radar out of a box stock Hayabusa?

That's a rhetorical question.

DC, while that report and video got us Hayabusa owners all wet in the crotch area for a while, it did nothing to improve MCN's credibility as testers of motorcycle performance parameters.

 

[OB_Mr Bear]

Another bit of practicality worth pointing out, Omega...

As you know well, an owner could tweak either of these bikes with aftermarket assistance to make that bike better for a given application the other one. Want a ZX-12 that runs a better quarter mile than most Busas? Quite easily done. Want a Hayabusa lightened and tightened to go around a racetrack better than most ZX-12's? Yoshimura has some ideas about that. Rig either one to run top-speed trials at Bonneville? Either one could be made to qualify for the 200 mph club.

The specialty you use yours for the most, and how well your bike does in that particular application, is a sensible thing to debate. The stock-on-stock, this-one-is-faster-than-that-one arguing back and forth is really not much more than a childish pissing contest. It means almost nothing in the practical sense.

 

[Guest]

David C. Thanx for the update. We'll check the forum hourly until we hear from you again. I just have to find a copy of MCN here in the States.

 

[Guest]

DP - the 200.1 mph run made on a stock Hayabusa was performed by BIKE magazine and the article concerning the run was published by them. MCN had a report on the Bike Mag run and provided the video. This run simply shows what the Busa is capable of under perfect/adventageous conditions. Other bikes that were run at the same time performed better than usual as well. The official Busa top speed is considered to be 194.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Todd thanks for the correction re the testing pub vs the reporting pub....sorry 'bout that DC!

Todd I know about the test...I've still got the video on my hard drive! If you want to call a 30 mph quartering tailwind "advantageous conditions", that's fine. Ideally, we would also do our runs down a 45 degree hill. lol!

The veracity of the radar is what's really in question. 200.1 mph is, as I understand from other mag reports, beyond the capability of a stock-geared Busa with a rev limiter under any circumstances.

194 is generally accepted you're right, and I'm not aware of any test going significantly higher than that...let alone to 200.1 mph.

I look forward to all the upcoming tests. The guys on these boards are pretty good at ferreting out the factors affecting test credibility, including editorial bias.

[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 16 March 2000).]

 

[Gixx1300R]

How do u know that the ZX12 will be able to hit 200mph with Modifications?Where have u gotten for facts from?Yoshimura and members on this Board have already proven that the Busa can easily surpass 200 mph.Has anyone even modified the ZX12?Did you know that the ZX12 doesnt have any sleeves for the pistons?Did you know that Kawi redesigned the Cylinder head for the ZX12 to flow more air to increase horsepower?There's not much there for Modifying.If you sonic check the ports you will see there is not much material there to port.

 

[OB_Bill Koz]

Todd, CHILL! Everyone knows the busa is capable of 194 under the right conditions. But, you're going to see that probably the 12 may be capable of going a little faster or slower under the same conditions. I know that if the busa goes faster its going to be hard to keep you from shoving the 12 owner's face in it, but please, if the 12 is faster it won't be the end of the world, and I for one will not be condescending. Chill out!

Koz

 

[Guest]

It is my understanding that the rev limiter kicks in a bit past redline. I have hit my rev limiter a time or two (not in 6th gear) but I wasn't looking at the tach during the instant I hit the limiter. (which explains why I hit the limiter in the first place) Some others have been more specific on the point of limiter function but I don't remember the exact post. Seems like Nick said it his was in the low 11K range? I think the point that is trying to be made is the Busa has been tested at speeds higher than 194 on occassion by independent non factory riders. DC mentioned that 195 was seen in Spain. This in contrast to the all day attempts by Kawasaki themselves on the 12 of their choosing never exceeding 190.8. This is better than any of the independent 12 tests that we know of have faired. The relative ease in which the Busa top speed test numbers were obtained by a multitude of independent testers is also a telling sign. While we have not yet seen much detailed testing data it is obvious to me that the 12 has fallen short. The fact that Kawasaki was compelled to spend a full day in front of independent sources at an airfield attempting to better 190.8 without success says more than a thousand bike magazines could. The results were apparently closer during Motorcyclist's testing where the Busa was only 1 mph faster than the 12 on the same day but we don't know if the Busa was allowed the same number of attempts as the 12. Nonetheless the 12 came up short in California. I think it's safe to say that the 12 is not the "Busa Destroyer" that NinjaNag and company have blown up our butts since last spring. It's the overblown hype and BS that has been shoveled for months that makes the 12 seem like such a flop. It's not really a bad bike - it just failed to meet the huge expectations that some were foolish enough to believe. We should remember that NinjaNag&company believed the 12 would be in the 208 mph range - nearly 18mph more than the Kawasaki factory run. They believed any rumor supporting this as well as swallowing the Kaw marketing hype hook, line and sinker. We tried to point out some logical inconsistencies but they refused to listen - instead content to dream and taunt Busa owners on Busa websites about their never seen "Busa Destroyer". It's no wonder they refuse to acknowledge the results released so far. Look for more excuses and the credibility of the independent testers to be attacked now.

 

[Guest]

Koz - I don't plan to shove anyone's face in the results that don't deserve it. There are only a select few that have attacked and harassed us since last spring. I was having to defend the Busa and myself to these clowns since before I purchased my first Busa. They made a concerted effort to come to the Hayabusa websites and taunt the Busa owners based on a bike that didn't exist.(zx-12) They made outragous claims of 208 mph and 9.3 quarter mile times. We attempted to reason with them but they did not wish to be reasonable. Their only interest was an attempt to belittle Busa owners and their bikes. They attacked Busa owners personally. One of the worst offenders continues to do so even today. Now the testing results of the real zx-12 are coming in and it's time they owned up to that.

 

[OB_Ninjaknight]

Sniff….snivel….sob “They made a concerted effort to come to the Hayabusa websites and taunt the Busa owners based on a bike that didn't exist.(zx-12)â€￾. Yes retodd it was a concerted effort by all of us and the little voices in your head . Hahahaha retodd I am only laughing at you dummy!

Like I said before retodd I could really care less who wins I just like to say the 12 is faster and watch you go nuts. There are allot of people here retodd who could really care less who wins either. You on the other hand are the self appointed protector of the Suzuki Hayabusa. You even have a website dedicated to it.

Seriously Todd I think it is time to get a grip on reality. I love motorcycles too but this is getting a little silly. Eventually someone will pass both the Hayabusa and the 12 so who really cares?

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

I'll put my money and mouth with Suzuki, like I have since last spring.

Since it was "Real Suzuki Officials" who told me the verdict on the ZX12 vs. Busa Shootout held here in the US, I will have to belive what I heard with my own ears.

RIP ZX12, it could make a nice bedtime storybook for children

"The Little ZX12 that could'nt!"

 

[OB_Jamie]

Kawabuser you arrogant piece of shi.t! You really need to get some new material. Your Baylor hospital thing is too old. You sound like a broken record. Your new "news" is laughable. It sounds like another official rumor to me. So a salesman at Daytona told you that the Busa has another 30hp in it? Good for you. Maybe he saw how insecure you are and thought you needed a pick-me-up. I don't doubt that 30 hp can be pulled from a Busa given enough money. But I'd say 30hp can be pulled from any bike. Don't be so obtuse to think that only the Busa has 30hp left in 'er.

Why is everyone in such a hurry to declare a winner? Is it because you'd like to get the rumor ball rolling in your favor? I think so. We'll know how fast it is when it's tested in the real world not in your speculative circus. Wait for the tests until then you're the one spewing crap.

As far as I'm concerned the ZX12 is what I expected it to be, a bullet fast knee dragger. I was getting tired of lugging that ol ZX11 through the turns. The new evolution it exactly what the doctor ordered. When you get tired of body building just so you can scrape the pegs on your hulk maybe you'll trade in the sport tourer on a pure sport bike like the 12R.

BTW Kaw, don't think I missed those cheap shots you've taken at me in the past. I don't remember ever saying anything about you. I've said Pete posts too much, I've said Frank doesn't know how to build engines just write checks and I stand behind all of that. You will be held to what you've said about me. You want to pretend to be a businessman? Here's a tip for you, don't insult future customers.

Jamie

 

[OB_DangerMouse]

I sort of hope the Hayabusa comes out on top, not because I own one, because I'm fed up with the press (especially MCN) spouting on about the Busa's short reign as fastest bike even before the ZX12 has turned a wheel, they haven't given Suzuki credit for what they've achieved, besting the current fastest bike by a clear 10MPH is nothing short of astonishing, Kawasaki made the mistake of thinking Suzuki don't know what they are doing and reckoned on beating it with 1200CCs, If it has been a ZX13 we would be looking at a new undisputed top speed king - as it stands I'd expect the bigger motored Suzuki to produce the goods more of the time in a wider type of conditions.

Kawasaki have pulled launch after launch, chopped the frame into loads of pieces to perfect ram air, and moved the fuel tank under the seat, to do what? match a Busa! going by the reports so far there will be nothing in it (as I've suspected all along) and it seems the 12 is slightly overgeared to take advantage of perfect conditions (another thing I predicted)

The Busa in my eyes isn't ugly, it is form for function, it looks that way because Suzuki know what they are doing re aeros, the fact the Busa looks so bizzare should have scared Kawasaki, because it obviously looks that way for a reason - and it seems Kawasaki are about to realise what that is. Top speed.

I hope the mags do decent two way top speed runs, the Busa will crush the ZX12 in those circumstances.

If course the press will do everything in their power to make the ZX12 win, just like they did with the Blackbird, more recent tests have put the Blackbird barely ahead of the ZZR1100.

[This message has been edited by DangerMouse (edited 16 March 2000).]

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

NinjaDumb, Do you measure everything with your 12 ruler.

And to make a sport of irritating Todd, do you also rip the wings off the flies that circle your KawPlop?

"Honey honest it is 12!"

There is a clinic at Baylor for you my pathetic friend

[This message has been edited by KawAbuser (edited 16 March 2000).]

 

[Guest]

Thanks for sparing me - I'm weary!

 

[Guest]

There's more layers to this story that have to be peeled away. I said before not to get out the shovels just yet. Top end is the only thing we keep debating. I personally have switched my gearing to 16-42, does that give you an idea of how important top end is to me? Lets see what happens with the quarter times and rollons and chassis issues and so forth. I am prepared to aknowledge that it failed in its mission to dethrone the busa. It has not however failed to fulfill its mission as one of the greatest SPORTBIKES ever made. So far we have one riding impression that failed to glean a shred of hard data on the bike. I want to hear the impressions of every major publication in the industry before I pass final judgement. I still hold to the opinion that it will out handle, out brake, and out accelerate the busa stock against stock. We'll see...........

 

[Guest]

NinjaNag - Apparently you do or you wouldn't be here nagging endlessly like an old woman. I thought you were supposed to come up with some new comedy material? Too much model glue huffing today to think straight? It looks like you just go back to your old crap postings and cut and paste the same thing over and over and over. The only thing you have accomplished is bringing ridicule upon yourself and upon the ZX-12 at the expense of others - including upstanding owners of Kawasakis. I'm flattered that you spend so much of your time and feable intellect attacking me on our home Hayabusa website but it's kind of disturbing. Do you have a bike of some kind you could ride once in a while and take a break from this obsession? Now that the 12 has failed will you continue to waste our time playing games? Waco weather should be nice this time of year. Say hi to Fitch and ask to see the "secret" video of the bike that will never be. Hehehe ...




[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 16 March 2000).]

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Jamie, all the members I have ever met have been real cool. For that matter when I met R Gadson at the NYC show he found a smile and a laugh when we met. You have been here a long time and I know you remember the "secret video" of Fitch. So why find any offense in the Baylor jokes, remember he died there.

Your posts have been of their highest quality since you and others quit pouring the green puke all over here.It must be a hit to find that the 12 may not live up to the hype of last fall. This is the net and since I still live in the US (FREEDOM OF SPEACH)do not take any resentment to any shots aimed back at camp green when we raise the Hayabusa flag.

FOR THOSE UNKNOWING OF THE "BAYLOR HOSPITAL" JOKE, try a search.

I still think it was extreme poor taste to create a phoney death of a member. So if you can't take a joke!