Joe The Plumber - Fail

[runeight]

You will never see a National Health Care plan. Clinton promised this for two terms leaving Hillary in charge. The Democrats in Congress wouldn't even support it!

Is Health Care out of control? He11 yes it is!

Why?

Have you or a loved one had extensive medical issues? Have you noticed how every test and diagnose was preformed "so we don't miss anything?"

Ever wonder why that is? One word. Attorneys.

Another? Medical Insurance costs.

Every election gets on the more jobs more benefits. Not going to happen. If tax credits are revoked (which Dems want to do) business will not invest nor spend capital. In fact they will likely scale back due to increase in taxes. More citizens on welfare rolls. Yeah, that's the Dems plan.

Since Bill Clinton pushed NAFTA and made China the favored Nation for such, jobs flew out of this Country. They won't be back. Heck, Clinton gets 10 million a year from China to this day. (investments, pat on the back donations) Funny how Hillary goes to China for Womens Rights and Child Labor and Bill says "he11 yes China..will do it again"

I have posted this in the past. Know the answer?

"Who cast the winning vote thus passing NAFTA?"

r8

 

[runeight]

Believe me I would LOVE to be able to do that. Do you have to pay for your health care? If you did you would know how expensive it is for SMALL group plans and the lowsy benefits it comes with. It would be like giving EVERY one of my guys a 25% pay raise EA. I would HAVE to pass that on to "customers" and guess what they are all going to do>>> shop around until they find a co. that doesnt have employees to have to do this. Just because I don't give them heath benefits doesn't mean their spouse doesn't. They large corporations with 80+ employees get better plans and have more profit than I do.

Obama wants everyone to pay. (and you will)

McCain wants to give a $5000.00 tax credit to business owners such as you for Medical Insurance.

Big difference.

r8

 

[runeight]

And....

Lets add this and you need to think about it.

10% of the population holds 80% of the wealth.

Do you really think Obamas tax plan will work?

The stock market is already uncertain and if Obama is elected the bottom is far from over.

r8

 

[Mr Bogus]

Wow that says a lot about your opinon of Blue Class workers.

So workers should be greatful for work? Ok, I agree but shouldn't employers also be greatful for good employees? Actually employeers that provide the best benefits get the best employees.

However I agree that everyone shoud strive to educate themselves no matter the cost.

Now what exactly did you mean by: "...took your homie butt off the street... "

You can have your choice... money or benefits.... uneducated workers are just that, they are taught a specific task and the repeat it over and over... they are required little or no thought and so require little if any education.. (the vast majority of assy line work is just like this).. no one said it was easy but it is simple enough to learn..

Now I can only arrange to get so much $$ for a product.. I have to hire people that can sell, engineer, market, procure raw materials etc for this product and then I still have to make a profit worthy of my skills as a company organizer.. Ask any self employed person... there is heck of a lot more to it than showing up for work and stamping out a part on an assy line..

I have people lined up for that job you so callously toss around like it is your right or you deserve more compensation... if you REALLY believe you are under compensated, go some where else and work.. there are plenty of others that know the money paid is consummate with the job..

So then you go "well I stayed here 4 years doing the same job"

not my fault, you did nothing to get yourself advanced.. why should I hand you a blank check? if you are that valuable, I will give you a raise that jives with what I make and what you contribute to that product.. If I over pay you for that bit of work, we all lose... (we can not sell our product now as it is over valued) honestly, most line workers that feel they are being short changed, need a couple semesters of Business/Econ and they will see a wise employer pays all he can to maintain his prime work force, if he over pays, he is doomed... Please note our Auto industry... avg pay is $20+ per hour and doomed to failure due to "benefits" being payed out.. those benefits are going to cease as there is no money to pay for them..

simple econ..

Now what exactly did you mean by: "...took your homie butt off the street... "

this means that some human resources guy took mercy on your situation and hired you.. keeping in mind by far the vast majority of these "complainers" have never bothered to get any type of degree or further their educations.. Heck most drop out of high school (40+ % of all high school students fail to graduate

I have NEVER seen a person willing to work hard, learn new skills and go above and beyond, NOT get ahead.. on the other hand, I have seen some pretty sad excuses for employees move up the ladder based solely on "time on the job" enough of them in any one company and it is adios to the company...

Look at graduation/college ready rates:
Education Working Paper 3 | appendix table 1

across the board, it is not good, compared to up and coming world financial powers, it is awful... but the liberal part of society is worried about hurting anyone's feelings so we just let it go... (Educators are NOTORIOUSLY liberal)

 

[runeight]

Very well said thus the Obama Campaign. We will force raises, health care, pensions, promotions and let the taxpayer/business owner pay for it. All equal!

Exact same thing as these ARM's and mortgages for low income people. (Clinton signed that, worked well huh?) Now, 700 billion will be in control of a Democratic Congress and it was the Democrats who fought against Fannie and Freddie control. How ironic.

Don't get me started on the Teachers Union and how left they are. No kid left behind is working! I deal with these blundering idiots everyday.

r8

 

[winlite]

The fact that Joe the plumber might not have a liscense, or owe back taxes, or be Republican has nothing to do with questioning Obama about how he would be taxed if he succeeded in having his own business through his hard work and time investment. Those facts have nothing to do with the fact that the more successful you are the more you will pay. Obama is going to decide how much money each one needs, not us.

 

[el stumpo]

not sure I understand what this is about but I think I want the people that have succeeded at business and life to pick my next pres.... I figure they know more than I do...

Don't bet on it Randy. Vote for the team whose policies and opinions you agree with and would like to see implemented, not who others think is better.

You said you registered, well, you get to help pick the next president. Go out and vote!

 

[UncleSteve]

Alright, last night John McCain was riding "Joe the Plumber", the would-be victim of Obama's Tax Policy/entrepreneur. Well today we find out the Joe ain't really who he was painted to be.

Facts:

Joe isn't a licensed plumber.

Joe is not anywhere near an earshot of buying his boss's business.

Joe is a registered Republican.

Joe made somewhere round $40K in 2006, so he would actually benefit from Obama's Tax Plan.

Joe has a lien on his azz for not paying some of his freaking taxes.

I really think this is tuly representative of many people that vote Republican. Hypotheically they could get screwed by a Deomcratic Tax plan, but in actuality they fall below the income level required to really be considered by the party that they support so heavily.

John Mccain try again, cause the "Joe the Plumber (or whatever he really does)" bit did not work.

Do you even own a Hayabusa?

 

[Mr Bogus]

Don't bet on it Randy. Vote for the team whose policies and opinions you agree with and would like to see implemented, not who others think is better.

You said you registered, well, you get to help pick the next president. Go out and vote!

think you misunderstood my reply and I always vote

Does he own a busa...? I got a funny feel that that was a reply to replace a real thought..

 

[Supergank1]

the more McCain talks the more I know who should be in office

THATS SOME CRAZY LOOKIN TEETH!!!!!

 

[Southside Playa]

Do you even own a Hayabusa?

I sure do.

What kind of question is that?? I don't ask others that don't see things the way I do whether or not they own a Busa.

Go with someone else.

 

[UncleSteve]

Just wondering why you are on this site. Seems like you are a political activist with no interest in motorcycles. Just see a pattern, of political posts.

 

[Southside Playa]

Okay you have about 45 more post than I do, and you have been around a couple of years less than me, and you want to call me a "political activist". That is funny.

I can guarantee you all of my posts have not been political in nature. If you don't care for my posts then don't participate in them.

This is the political section of the forum and we are in the middle of an election year, so can I not post on political issues. I am sorry if my views don't conform to the majority around here, but I figured I could post, vent, etc, without getting flamed in tis manner.

I have had some great conversations around here, picked up great advice, etc.

Again, I am no political acitivist, but I do choose to participate in the polical conversations on here.

So before you go and ask anyone else whether or not they own a Busa or some other lame azz question, trying to antagonize them, I suggest you just refrain from viewing or responding to any post that "you" may take issue with.

You don't know me from Adam, so please baccdafuccup off of me.

 

[runeight]

Ronald Reagan's most important contribution to the American political dialogue was his ability to move the tax issue from an economic-populist issue into a populist, blue-collar one. Under George W. Bush, however, the issue has switched back to one of class warfare, as increasing numbers of Americans have paid no taxes at all and the rates on those who did pay taxes fell. Now, a chance encounter with "Joe the Plumber" has afforded the Republicans the chance to use taxes as a blue-collar issue.

The opening Joe provided and John McCain skillfully exploited in the third presidential debate gives the GOP ticket its first long shot at victory since McCain punted on the terrible, pork-laden, corporate-giveaway "rescue" bill Congress passed and Bush signed. Obama's tax plans and spending programs have emerged as the key point of difference between the campaigns. And the Democrat's comment to Joe that he saw his tax policy as a "way to spread the wealth around" underscores the motive behind his program: to redistribute income. Obama might as well have told Joe, "I want to take the hard earned money you make fixing pipes and give it to other people."

If the Republican Party concentrates its fire on the tax issue and the redistributionist impulse behind Obama's plans, it can close the Democratic lead point by point, day by day, until the election. McCain's campaign must resist the temptation to take random shots on other issues and zero in on the tax-and-spend issue, stressing how taxes penalize those who work hard and live right.

In fact, the rich are paying vastly more in taxes than they ever have. "Reality Check," by Dennis Keegan and David West, points out that the percentage of income-tax revenues paid by the top percent of the population has almost doubled in the last 20 years; it now pays 40 percent of all income tax. (The bottom half in income pays less than 3 percent.) Despite the lower rates, the rich are paying more in taxes because they are earning more and more. In the last eight years, real, after-inflation income growth for the top 10 percent of the population has been more than 45 percent.


Essentially, the tax debate comes down to economic populism versus social populism. The Democratic economic populists rail against the rich and demand that they pay more in taxes. The Republican social populists decry the notion of income redistribution as rewarding failure and penalizing hard work. Until Joe, the economic-populist polarity dominated the presidential race to the detriment of the Republicans. But now Joe has brought the social-populist argument back to life.

Because there always are, there will doubtless be those who see the social-populist approach as a code word for racism, especially because it is directed against the proposals of an African-American candidate. But the dichotomy that social populism exploits is one that separates the most productive members of our work force from the others, in the spirit of Joe the Plumber. Race is quite beside the point.

The question is whether McCain has the discipline to pursue the tax issue doggedly for the rest of the campaign. The other targets - from Bill Ayers to ACORN - are so tempting but ultimately appeal to the Republican base and few others. But taxes hit us all.

The core difference between the American working class and its European equivalents is that Europeans are inclined to vote based on their current condition while Americans base their decisions more on their goals and objectives for the future. Americans assume upward mobility while Europeans do not. Each nation's workers are correct in their assessments.

Despite the widening gap between the richest 20 percent and the poorest in the United States, the economic chart is constantly churning. People are always moving out of the bottom fifth and up the scale, their places at the bottom of the ladder yielding to new arrivals, usually from abroad. So Americans are right to vote their dreams. Obama's European socialist tendency to sabotage growth in the interests of "fairness" merely serves to convert an American model that works into a European one that does not.[/I]

Richard Morris

r8

 

[Dino]

Ronald Reagan's most important contribution to the American political dialogue was his ability to move the tax issue from an economic-populist issue into a populist, blue-collar one. Under George W. Bush, however, the issue has switched back to one of class warfare, as increasing numbers of Americans have paid no taxes at all and the rates on those who did pay taxes fell. Now, a chance encounter with "Joe the Plumber" has afforded the Republicans the chance to use taxes as a blue-collar issue.

The opening Joe provided and John McCain skillfully exploited in the third presidential debate gives the GOP ticket its first long shot at victory since McCain punted on the terrible, pork-laden, corporate-giveaway "rescue" bill Congress passed and Bush signed. Obama's tax plans and spending programs have emerged as the key point of difference between the campaigns. And the Democrat's comment to Joe that he saw his tax policy as a "way to spread the wealth around" underscores the motive behind his program: to redistribute income. Obama might as well have told Joe, "I want to take the hard earned money you make fixing pipes and give it to other people."

If the Republican Party concentrates its fire on the tax issue and the redistributionist impulse behind Obama's plans, it can close the Democratic lead point by point, day by day, until the election. McCain's campaign must resist the temptation to take random shots on other issues and zero in on the tax-and-spend issue, stressing how taxes penalize those who work hard and live right.

In fact, the rich are paying vastly more in taxes than they ever have. "Reality Check," by Dennis Keegan and David West, points out that the percentage of income-tax revenues paid by the top percent of the population has almost doubled in the last 20 years; it now pays 40 percent of all income tax. (The bottom half in income pays less than 3 percent.) Despite the lower rates, the rich are paying more in taxes because they are earning more and more. In the last eight years, real, after-inflation income growth for the top 10 percent of the population has been more than 45 percent.


Essentially, the tax debate comes down to economic populism versus social populism. The Democratic economic populists rail against the rich and demand that they pay more in taxes. The Republican social populists decry the notion of income redistribution as rewarding failure and penalizing hard work. Until Joe, the economic-populist polarity dominated the presidential race to the detriment of the Republicans. But now Joe has brought the social-populist argument back to life.

Because there always are, there will doubtless be those who see the social-populist approach as a code word for racism, especially because it is directed against the proposals of an African-American candidate. But the dichotomy that social populism exploits is one that separates the most productive members of our work force from the others, in the spirit of Joe the Plumber. Race is quite beside the point.

The question is whether McCain has the discipline to pursue the tax issue doggedly for the rest of the campaign. The other targets - from Bill Ayers to ACORN - are so tempting but ultimately appeal to the Republican base and few others. But taxes hit us all.

The core difference between the American working class and its European equivalents is that Europeans are inclined to vote based on their current condition while Americans base their decisions more on their goals and objectives for the future. Americans assume upward mobility while Europeans do not. Each nation's workers are correct in their assessments.

Despite the widening gap between the richest 20 percent and the poorest in the United States, the economic chart is constantly churning. People are always moving out of the bottom fifth and up the scale, their places at the bottom of the ladder yielding to new arrivals, usually from abroad. So Americans are right to vote their dreams. Obama's European socialist tendency to sabotage growth in the interests of "fairness" merely serves to convert an American model that works into a European one that does not.[/I]

Richard Morris

r8

Who is Richard Morris?