I wiped out!

[reiny]

On July 14 ,on a "semi wet" road i was gearing down into 1st gear and my busa made a really really super quick "S wiggle" and it threw me off!!
I broke three toes, and and cracked my shoulder blade.
Today i went to the dealership and the topic came up.When they heard i was riding on a Avon ST AZARO, they said ,that it was a really poor tire choice for my Busa.The "Past" parts manager has since left this dealership, the onw who sold me this tire,BUT he did say that tire was NOT a good choice.
I'm thinking that this makes a lot of sense .
My Avon AZARO was only aprox. 200.00 and a Metzler is about 350.00 Cdn.
I didnt buy the Avon because of its price i just bought it for its increase in milage.I think i made a huge mistake!!!!!
Any thoughts on this wud be appreciated.
Thank You in advance,
Reiny

 

[Gunnybusa]

I never use 1st gear for engine breaking due to the torque feed back. Hope you feel better.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Sorry for your injuries. How'd the bike do? If I ever downshift into 1st its to ACcelerate not DEcelerate and I've never tried Avons or Metz. PP on the front and PRoad on the rear (for touring). Usually I run PPs front and rear. Hope you heal quickly!

 

[stlbusarider]

Sorry to hear about the wreck, glad your OK. Sorry I've never used that tire either. You should stick with Pilot powers.

 

[JINKSTER]

it pains me to hear folks who will shell out for a badazz highly over-powered GT Sportbike the likes of a busa and then?...make tire choices based on milage?

I buy based on "STICK"..closely followed by "Handling Characteristics"...the busa is a heavy badazz bike....it DEMANDS badazz rubber.

Personally?..i don't think AVONS should've ever been permitted any further than the JC Whitney catalog pages.

sorry ya learned the hard way bud..and thanks for your open, honest sharing.

L8R, Bill.

 

[Sloto200]

Shouldnt be "engine braking" on this bike. I've never heard anyone complain about AVONS on a busa at all!

 

[SpeedGeek]

<-- See my avatar?

See CharlesBusa's avatar?

See VMan's signature?

You won't EVER see that kind of stuff done with Avons - PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

You want performance?  You will end sacrificing some mileage.  But then again, you will never have to worry about wondering if your tires will hold up if a corner comes up a bit fast or hoping you don't tuck the front when you have to PLANT the front brakes to keep from hitting a car/kid/animal that comes into your path. I was able to do a controlled stoppie from 70 MPH to avoid a crash when a group of riders went down in front of me. I doubt I would have been as confident if I had cut cost on tires.

Peace of mind and the security isn't worth the extra 2 thousand miles you get out of half-assed tires made for mileage in a straight line.

Too bad to hear about your mishap... Hopefully others can learn from yours and avoid making the same mistake.  

 

[Sloto200]

(SpeedGeek @ Sep. 14 2007,17:14) <-- See my avatar?

See CharlesBusa's avatar?

See VMan's signature?

You won't EVER see that kind of stuff done with Avons - PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

You want performance?  You will end sacrificing some mileage.  But then again, you will never have to worry about wondering if your tires will hold up if a corner comes up a bit fast or hoping you don't tuck the front when you have to PLANT the front brakes to keep from hitting a car/kid/animal that comes into your path.  I was able to do a controlled stoppie from 70 MPH to avoid a crash when a group of riders went down in front of me.  I doubt I would have been as confident if I had cut cost on tires.

Peace of mind and the security isn't worth the extra 2 thousand miles you get out of half-assed tires made for mileage in a straight line.

Too bad to hear about your mishap... Hopefully others can learn from yours and avoid making the same mistake.  

Not everyone rides on a track... not everyone needs "performance" tires. Some of us live in areas suited for half assed cost cut tires made for straight line riding. You have obviously never lived in Oklahoma or north Texas. It sounds like he downshifted into 1st gear at to high of a speed for something like this to have happend. Wouldnt have mattered what kind of half assed or performance tire he had on his bike. I've been riding with half assed cost cut tires for over 5000 miles on the Busa and 6000+ on my 600 when i had that. No problems here.

 

[Warputer]

I agree with ya Sloto .....a slipper clutch is only gonna work to a certain point ......downshift to 1st at a high rate of speed and you're guranteed to bust your azz.....the rear tire is gonna skid. I've had no problems with Avons.

 

[reiny]

I really was taking it easy as i was approaching the corner.I',m 50 yrs old and i NEVER liked to take corners at a high speed ,thats why this accicent has really got me wondering.I'd say that i was doing about 30 KM.s when i down shifted,or possibly rear braking.
Thank you to all that have replied so far,its appreciated.

 

[WWJD]

couple thoughts... - that's what this internet is for, right?

first, I can see the dealer saying "Yeah, bad tire for the busa" AFTER you went down.... everyone says things like that
..."Yeah, he was always a quiet boy.... a little off in the head maybe..." even thought TONS of people on this site ride various forms of Avon and other long lasting tires all the time.

2nd, semiwet road sounds problematic to ANY tire as others have stated.

My personal choice is totally sticky, nothing else, but if you never never tear it up, that is pointless. And a wet road makes no diff on total sticky tires.

Sorry for your fall. Hoping you are okay. Thanks for sharing. Always good to share info like this because others will learn

 

[bigoltool]

I'm having a hard time understanding how this turned into a tire discussion. There are so many variables at play here that to blame it solely on the tires would be foolish. Tire pressures, debris, road conditions, suspension settings to say nothing of rider skill. The man stated that he was riding in "semi wet" road conditions and grabbed first gear for what I presume was a turn or a stop and the rear tire "broke loose". Sorry fellas but the Avon's are one of the better Rain tires out there. All the sticky race rubber in the world isn't going to help you in the rain unless you have grooves to move the water. Most of the Super sticky race compound tires out now are almost slick,which works wonders on a dry road or track but wont help any when rain riding. The absolute last thing I would ever do when rain (even light rain) riding is use first gear compression braking to slow my corner entry. You should have most of your braking done long before corner entry (or stop) in those conditions.

 

[WWJD]

and as a final fellow-rider jab, it wasn't the Avon 46 ST Azaro TIRE that wiped out

 

[SpeedGeek]

Sorry for my initial post as coming off that everyone NEEDS performance tires...
I agree that they don't. However, tires DO make a big difference - ESPECIALLY when its cold or damp.

Case in point: Last summer I was on an easy ride up to Mt St Helens... semi damp roads and was taking it easy. I was running Pilot Powers, the guy behind me had "more mileage oriented sport touring tires". Simple left hand sweeper and he simply lost the front. I immediately checked his tires and found them HARD, COLD, and SLIPPERY. My PP's were warm and gummy feeling by comparison...

So, sure... you can run whatever tires you want when riding in a straight line in ideal conditions... But no matter where you live you don't always have "ideal conditions".

I've had the back end skate around on me when downshifting hard coming into a corner... .but when the tire has more grip you can control it easier and it less likely to get out of hand.

 

[DNGrumpy]

Pilot Powers and the 2CT's have a recall on them...

 

[Postal]

(Gunnybusa @ Sep. 14 2007,21:53) I never use 1st gear for engine breaking due to the torque feed back. Hope you feel better.

+1.... sounds more like rider error. Also, buy Pilot Powers.

P.

 

[forceofnature]

Really it is rider error, sorry but I have had the down shift squiggles too even with a decent tire. I just got a little to anxious to down shift for a turn when the back end squiggled really quick I was able to recover and continue.

Another fix might be a slipper clutch.

 

[Spudley]

In a hard downshift, the backend always wiggles when speed is higher and I'm demanding it to slow me down in the moment. I don't even notice it when it happens anymore, BUT, if the discussion is tire......spend the money after doing the research and get quality "heavy bike" performance tires.

I run Metzlers for grip, not mileage. Others run Michelin for grip, not mileage. Others run Dunlop for grip, not for mileage. Mileage is just a side benefit from a decent manufacturer, and as tire compounds evolve, we're getting beter and better results.

No offense, but in this incident I'm not sure it was the tire, but inexperience with a Hayabusa, a bit of wet surface, maybe a bit of wiggle from the rearend, could have been a bit of fear brought on by wet roads, heck could have been oil on the road. It could have been several variables, but we're not a victimization web-board.

"Lots" of folks around here have gone down and yet we always examine what lead up to it, what occured, and what do we learn from it. I don't know that blaming your Avons is going to do anyone any good, it's simply inherent in the risk of the sport. You could have had the best wet-surface tire and still had a bad reaction to the wet surfaces.

I learned a lot from wet riding in Hawaii, and that still didn't stop me from slippin' and slidin' around on my original Bridgestones. What I learned was counterbalance, attention to speed, don't trip when the rearend breaks traction a little, throttle control are all "learned" behaviors, but I have them now and I had less of them back then.

Live, learn, control your Hayabusa to the best of your ability. It will return "in kind".

 

[Spudley]

(bigoltool @ Sep. 14 2007,16:02) I'm having a hard time understanding how this turned into a tire discussion. There are so many variables at play here that to blame it solely on the tires would be foolish. Tire pressures, debris, road conditions, suspension settings to say nothing of rider skill. The man stated that he was riding in "semi wet" road conditions and grabbed first gear for what I presume was a turn or a stop and the rear tire "broke loose".  Sorry fellas but the Avon's are one of the better Rain tires out there. All the sticky race rubber in the world isn't going to help you in the rain unless you have grooves to move the water. Most of the Super sticky race compound tires out now are almost slick,which works wonders on a dry road or track but wont help any when rain riding. The absolute last thing I would ever do when rain (even light rain) riding is use first gear compression braking to slow my corner entry. You should have most of your braking done long before corner entry (or stop)  in those conditions.

Well said, Thank ya, thank ya very mushhh......"

 

[mymaster]

It's a matter of opinion, It's the riding style, on a wet road theres no guarantees no matter what tire your using. I put 9000 miles on one set of Azaro's with zero problems. Running a set of Storms now, love them.