High Court Rules Cross Can Stand in Mojave

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WASHINGTON (April 28) -- The Supreme Court said Wednesday that a federal court went too far in ordering the removal of a congressionally endorsed war memorial cross from its longtime home in California.

In ruling the cross could stay, the justices said federal judges in California did not take sufficient notice of the government's decision to transfer the land in a remote area of California to private ownership. The move was designed to eliminate any constitutional concern about a religious symbol on public land.

The ruling was 5-4, with the court's conservatives in the majority.

The Veterans of Foreign put up this cross 75 years ago in the Mojave National Preserve in California. A federal court had ordered the cross removed, but the Supreme Court overturned that ruling Wednesday.The Veterans of Foreign Wars erected the cross more than 75 years ago atop an outcropping in the Mojave National Preserve.

It has been covered with plywood for the past several years following the court rulings. Court papers describe the cross as 5 feet to 8 feet tall.

"Here one Latin cross in the desert evokes far more than religion. It evokes thousands of small crosses in foreign fields marking the graves of Americans who fell in battles, battles whose tragedies are compounded if the fallen are forgotten," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote.

In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens agreed that soldiers who died in battle deserve a memorial to their service. But the government "cannot lawfully do so by continued endorsement of a starkly sectarian message," Stevens said.

Six justices wrote separate opinions and none spoke for a majority of the court. The holding itself was narrow, ordering lower courts to look again at the transfer of land from the government to private control.

Lower federal courts previously ruled that the cross' location on public land violated the Constitution and that the land transfer was, in effect, an end run around the constitutional problem.
 
Amazing how Stevens can say that when 'In God we trust' is written all over the place as well as every unidentified fallen soldiers tombstone reads 'Known but to God' (?)
We are a sectarian country founded on Christian principles .
Has he forgotten that or just chooses to ignore it ?
 
I was in san diego when that happened. that sucked. Im glad that things turned around.
 
This country was founded by christians.....but not on "christian principles".

the constituition gives of :
freedom of speech, right to bear arms....and also separation of church and state.

i have seen the cross, before all the hoopla started, and the funniest thing is about the whole situation is :

nobody cared about it as a memorial, maybe a couple hundred people at best. most of the people screaming the loudest on either side have never even seen it, know of who it is memorializing.

we really do have some real problems in this country....but people get caught up on things like this.

PS: this was not a landmark ruling about religious rights....it was about the transfer of land to the VFW by Congress, and the parameters that were included in that deal.
 
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This country was founded by christians.....but not on "christian principles".

the constituition gives of :
freedom of speech, right to bear arms....and also separation of church and state.

i have seen the cross, before all the hoopla started, and the funniest thing is about the whole situation is :

nobody cared about it as a memorial, maybe a couple hundred people at best. most of the people screaming the loudest on either side have never even seen it, know of who it is memorializing.

we really do have some real problems in this country....but people get caught up on things like this.

PS: this was not a landmark ruling about religious rights....it was about the transfer of land to the VFW by Congress, and the parameters that were included in that deal.

Afterhours with all due respect it makes no sense to say Christians founded this country but not based upon their principles ?
Again in God we trust is written everywhere ?
The word God was prevalent in the country EVERYWHERE until.....(long story saved)
All judges , politicians and Presidents are still sworn in with a Christian Bible ?
Christian principles are what guided the founding fathers and again all due respect but it's folks like you who are trying to change and rewrite history to fit a certain agenda these days .

As for the cross it was ONE MAN who complained and filed suit .
His case went all the way up .
Only after this one man complained were sides drawn cuz up unto that point nobody had said anything .
 
Wasn't looking to start any debates just thought it was noteworthy that since the cross was erected to honor our veterans that the supreme court found to see it that way also.
 
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Afterhours with all due respect it makes no sense to say Christians founded this country but not based upon their principles ?
Again in God we trust is written everywhere ?
The word God was prevalent in the country EVERYWHERE until.....(long story saved)
All judges , politicians and Presidents are still sworn in with a Christian Bible ?
Christian principles are what guided the founding fathers and again all due respect but it's folks like you who are trying to change and rewrite history to fit a certain agenda these days .

As for the cross it was ONE MAN who complained and filed suit .
His case went all the way up .
Only after this one man complained were sides drawn cuz up unto that point nobody had said anything .

this country was founded on some very distinct principles....

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." T. Jefferson

notice the word is creator, not God or god, or any other specific entity. Creator is used to show that these are not Christian specific....that anyone that believes in a Creator is guaranteed these rights.

the Constitution makes it very clear that the government was to be separate from religion.

the founding fathers were very intelligent,
they wanted the freedom to protest the gov.
they wanted the right to file grievances with the gov.
they ensured the right to protect those rights by force if needed (2nd ammendment).

all this was written down.....

if they had wanted to be a Chritian country, they would have written it down.


PS: i know we are opposed in this ideal, and thats not going to change...
 
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Wasn't looking to start any debates just thought it was noteworthy that since the cross was erected to honor our veterans that the supreme court found to see it that way also.

intelligent debate is good....

however the Supreme Court only ruled against on the transfer of title, and a lower court injunction.

in fact they kind of *****ed out, and took the easy way out. instead of making a real ruling dealing with separation of church and state, they chose to do the very minimum they could do.

as usual, the court missed an opportunity to make a real important decision...either way.
 
Beside our veterans deserve the upmost respect yet it seems the general public does not.If anyone deserves free health care food stamps assisted living etc our veterans deserve it. There is no excuse for a veteran to go without or to have hard times.If politicians wanted to impress me they would step up and do something. without them we would be in a world of poo poo. So to all the vets here on the.Org I salute you :usa:
 
I believe 'creator' was used because they were Christians and as Christians we are raised to accept and not alienate others and their faiths .
Being as intelligent as they were and seeing that these docs are still ones we live by I think they specifically worded it as such because they knew and saw the future of America as a multinational multifaith populated country .

It was their Christian principles that guided them when writing these things is my take on it .
Did not mean that they decreed us a Christian nation .

Also 'creator' is an old testament term used only to refer to one entity , God .
Is it not ?
 
I hope FOX news broadcasts live them pulling the plywood down and restoring the cross. Political Correctness for once LOST. 'Bout time.

Irony: Every military ceremony I've ever been to (or participated in) includes a prayer before and after. Never saw an athiest in a foxhole....
 
Also 'creator' is an old testament term used only to refer to one entity , God .
Is it not ?

This is true, but in the old testament, Christians weren't around yet.

However, given that at the time, 75 years ago, when the memorial was erected, this nation was prodomonetly Christian, and it should be recognized for its historical significance and its meaning to the people who put it up and whom it was meant to honor.

We do have the freedom of religion in this country as well as a seperation of church and state, but to say that a memorial can't be on government land is foolish.

So someone got offended by it, sucks to be them, this country may be ruled by the majority vote, but too many things in our lives are subject to the tyranny of the minority.

You can't make all the people happy all the time!
 
I believe 'creator' was used because they were Christians and as Christians we are raised to accept and not alienate others and their faiths .
Being as intelligent as they were and seeing that these docs are still ones we live by I think they specifically worded it as such because they knew and saw the future of America as a multinational multifaith populated country .

It was their Christian principles that guided them when writing these things is my take on it .
Did not mean that they decreed us a Christian nation .

Also 'creator' is an old testament term used only to refer to one entity , God .
Is it not ?

i do not recall the the word "creator" being used as the name for "God", he is called creator as in the appostles creed:

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth

_________-

i think that the founding fathers held thier faith to be a personal issue, as most of us do today. as such we choose to worship in our own ways, or not at all. the outrage over this is because people are buying into the belief that someone is taking something from them.

most people do not pray at school, but when they hear a case of prayer being banned at school they become outraged. why?

most people ha never seen this memorial....but the minute it became a church vs state issue, people became outraged.
 
Amazing how Stevens can say that when 'In God we trust' is written all over the place as well as every unidentified fallen soldiers tombstone reads 'Known but to God' (?)
We are a sectarian country founded on Christian principles .
Has he forgotten that or just chooses to ignore it ?

Main Entry: 1sec·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: \sek-ˈter-ē-ən\
Function: adjective
Date: 1649
1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect or sectarian
2 : limited in character or scope : parochial

— sec·tar·i·an·ism \-ē-ə-ˌni-zəm\ noun


dictionaries help sometimes.....

pretty sure if we were sectarian, other religions wouldnt be tolerated or observed.
 
I am not religious...I am glad this got overturned though...I wish people would stop getting so worked up over the little things....like when people were so worked up over "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" (its not like the greeters were saying Welcome to walmart...F U) use that energy to actually make the world a better place and improve YOURSELF before you point fingers at someone else.... Like i said i am not religious but a religious person who never bothered with political positioning once said to me..."I live my life how i want people to live and not how i tell them to live....people can doubt your words, but not your actions....i can not be judged by any man and i can not judge any man" Great guy who never looked down upon anyone or judged them no matter how they lived....he never outcast anyone because they lived or believed different than himself.
 
I am not religious, nor do I believe in a supreme being. With that said, I DO believe the, and ALL crosses should be left alone. They were erected for the men and women who fought and died for our country, I see it as an expression of respect, not religion...........
 
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