Gun Owners pay for Gun Violence Costs

[Dougyp333]

How about backing up that ridiculous statement about hammers? How bout it?

Number of homicides by weapons used in the U.S.| Statista

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,246 homicides in 2024.

www.statista.com

Blunt weapons (hammers etc.) 397
Rifles 364

Google and 30 seconds is all it took. Less snark might be nice.

[Bumblebee]

Number of homicides by weapons used in the U.S.| Statista

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,246 homicides in 2024.

www.statista.com

Blunt weapons (hammers etc.) 397
Rifles 364

Google and 30 seconds is all it took. Less snark might be nice.

Wow, crimes by handguns are by far the highest figure.....probably because they are easily concealed and readily available....

[Dougyp333]

Wow, crimes by handguns are by far the highest figure.....probably because they are easily concealed and readily available....

2,854,838 total deaths in US 2019 (all causes) with 6368 handgun homicides, that is just .0022 percent of the total. The number can be big or small, it's all about how you want to look at it. Most look at it through the lens of the agenda they support (I'm not excluding myself from doing this).

• Heart disease: 659,041
• Cancer: 599,601
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005
• Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499
• Diabetes: 87,647

[Dougyp333]

Going to the doctor is more dangerous than guns.

"Recent studies of medical errors have estimated errors may account for as many as 251,000 deaths annually in the United States (U.S)., making medical errors the third leading cause of death. Error rates are significantly higher in the U.S. than in other developed countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the United Kingdom (U.K). At the same time less than 10 percent of medical errors are reported. This study describes the results of an investigation of the effectiveness of the implementation of the MEDMARX Medication Error Reporting system in 25 hospitals in Pennsylvania. Data were collected on 17,000 errors reported by participating hospitals over a 12-month period. Latent growth curve analysis revealed that reporting of errors by health care providers increased significantly over the four quarters. At the same time, the proportion of corrective actions taken by the hospitals remained relatively constant over the 12 months. A simulation model was constructed to examine the effect of potential organizational changes resulting from error reporting. Four interventions were simulated. The results suggest that improving patient safety requires more than voluntary reporting. Organizational changes need to be implemented and institutionalized as well."

Link to the article.

[Bumblebee]

2,854,838 total deaths in US 2019 (all causes) with 6368 handgun homicides, that is just .0022 percent of the total. The number can be big or small, it's all about how you want to look at it. Most look at it through the lens of the agenda they support (I'm not excluding myself from doing this).

• Heart disease: 659,041
• Cancer: 599,601
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005
• Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499
• Diabetes: 87,647

I just read 19,223 died of gun deaths in the US during 2020....and 10,000 so far this year and it's only July....

[Dougyp333]

I just read 19,223 died of gun deaths in the US during 2020....and 10,000 so far this year and it's only July....

That could very well be correct because that number (most likely) includes suicides. The 6368 number from 2019 was only counting homicides.

[TallTom]

Going to the doctor is more dangerous than guns.

"Recent studies of medical errors have estimated errors may account for as many as 251,000 deaths annually in the United States (U.S)., making medical errors the third leading cause of death. Error rates are significantly higher in the U.S. than in other developed countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and the United Kingdom (U.K). At the same time less than 10 percent of medical errors are reported. This study describes the results of an investigation of the effectiveness of the implementation of the MEDMARX Medication Error Reporting system in 25 hospitals in Pennsylvania. Data were collected on 17,000 errors reported by participating hospitals over a 12-month period. Latent growth curve analysis revealed that reporting of errors by health care providers increased significantly over the four quarters. At the same time, the proportion of corrective actions taken by the hospitals remained relatively constant over the 12 months. A simulation model was constructed to examine the effect of potential organizational changes resulting from error reporting. Four interventions were simulated. The results suggest that improving patient safety requires more than voluntary reporting. Organizational changes need to be implemented and institutionalized as well."

Link to the article.

Name one case where a doctor wiped out dozens of lives. And maybe you can find one or two if you try and go back 300 years. Nazi concentration experiments etc.

This year we have had how many deaths attributed to the use of high capacity firearms?

It's July.

Then let's go back year by year.

Yes doctors are responsible for those deaths. That's thousands of doctors responsible for them. Is it easier to outlaw doctors or outlaw guns?

[Dougyp333]

Name one case where a doctor wiped out dozens of lives. And maybe you can find one or two if you try and go back 300 years. Nazi concentration experiments etc.

This year we have had how many deaths attributed to the use of high capacity firearms?

It's July.

Then let's go back year by year.

Yes doctors are responsible for those deaths. That's thousands of doctors responsible for them. Is it easier to outlaw doctors or outlaw guns?

This is exactly the kind of emotional response that adds nothing to the discussion also without posting a source it's just opinion.

I posted that to point out the fact that any activity or item can be painted as dangerous if looked at from a certain perspective. You don't like guns and think they are bad, I'm fine with that. You do you. You try and take mine and we will have a very heated discussion.

"Although definitions of defensive gun use vary, it is generally defined as the use of a firearm to protect and defend one’s self, family, others, and/or property against crime or victimization.

Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year."

Link to Source

[Bumblebee]

That could very well be correct because that number (most likely) includes suicides. The 6368 number from 2019 was only counting homicides.

I just went on the "evil" Wikipedia and it mentioned there were 20,000 gun deaths and 24,000 gun related suicides in the US in 2020....the two number parallel each other and are not interlinked.....

That's a pretty big number. 44,000 people dying by gun related deaths

You seem like a very conscientious, proactive gun owner but I would wager there are many, many others out there who are not....those who keep loaded weapons within reach of kids and such like....

[TallTom]

This is exactly the kind of emotional response that adds nothing to the discussion also without posting a source it's just opinion.

I posted that to point out the fact that any activity or item can be painted as dangerous if looked at from a certain perspective. You don't like guns and think they are bad, I'm fine with that. You do you. You try and take mine and we will have a very heated discussion.

"Although definitions of defensive gun use vary, it is generally defined as the use of a firearm to protect and defend one’s self, family, others, and/or property against crime or victimization.

Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year."

Link to Source

How do you know I don't like guns? What in my post suggest I don't like guns?

I don't like arguments that try to serve me an orange and convince me it's an apple.

I am opposed to easy access to high capacity, high caliber weapons.

[Dougyp333]

I just went on the "evil" Wikipedia and it mentioned there were 20,000 gun deaths and 24,000 gun related suicides in the US in 2020....the two number parallel each other and are not interlinked.....

That's a pretty big number. 44,000 people dying by gun related deaths

You seem like a very conscientious, proactive gun owner but I would wager there are many, many others out there who are not....those who keep loaded weapons within reach of kids and such like....

This is part of what makes this discussion hard to have sometimes. It's hard to compare apples to apples and if you can't even agree on the numbers how do you come up with a solution.

Taken from Wikipedia:
In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S.[11] In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while 6,009 were reported involving a handgun; another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm."

11,078 fire-arm related homicides.
358 murdered with a rifle
6009 murdered with a handgun
1939 murdered with an unspecified firearm
That equals 8306 homicides with a firearm, that's a discrepancy of 2772 homicides. (11078 minus 8306)

The Media wants clicks (revenue) and they know violence generates those clicks so they sensationalize violent acts making it seem worse than it is.

[Dougyp333]

How do you know I don't like guns? What in my post suggest I don't like guns?

I don't like arguments that try to serve me an orange and convince me it's an apple.

I am opposed to easy access to high capacity, high caliber weapons.

You are correct I assumed from your response that you are anti gun, I apologize if I was wrong.

Does an AR-15 fit the description of "I am opposed to easy access to high capacity, high caliber weapons."?
I ask because it is a small caliber weapon 5.56mm .223" and standard capacity is a 30 round magazine.

I'm off the mow the lawn I will stop back in later.

[ZeePopo]

...the problem is guns are convenient and everywhere....a bad guy can lay his hands on almost anything he wants within the underground weapon world....

And you just never know when someone will "snap" and use their God-given right to take you out with a gun....get in a fender-bender and the guy loses it and shoots you....it's been done several times....

Look at Chris Kyle on the range helping out a fellow veteran and got shot in the back....you just never know who will decide to use lethal force..

Nobody in any post has mentioned taking away guns, only certain guns....

I get the desire to have an assault rifle, I have a few, now they are illegal...I used mine to shoot competitively in "jungle Lane" competitions. Now those competitions are no more....even that being said, does any civilian NEED an assault rifle?

Me, I need one. I get up to no good hahaha.

[Bumblebee]

This is part of what makes this discussion hard to have sometimes. It's hard to compare apples to apples and if you can't even agree on the numbers how do you come up with a solution.

Taken from Wikipedia:
In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicides, and 11,078 firearm-related homicides in the U.S.[11] In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while 6,009 were reported involving a handgun; another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm."

11,078 fire-arm related homicides.
358 murdered with a rifle
6009 murdered with a handgun
1939 murdered with an unspecified firearm
That equals 8306 homicides with a firearm, that's a discrepancy of 2772 homicides. (11078 minus 8306)

The Media wants clicks (revenue) and they know violence generates those clicks so they sensationalize violent acts making it seem worse than it is.

I feel you but I quoted 2020 figures, from the graph on the fight....Wikipedia stated the number of gun related deaths is going up..

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Either way, the numbers are pretty staggering...

[TallTom]

You are correct I assumed from your response that you are anti gun, I apologize if I was wrong.

Does an AR-15 fit the description of "I am opposed to easy access to high capacity, high caliber weapons."?
I ask because it is a small caliber weapon 5.56mm .223" and standard capacity is a 30 round magazine.

I'm off the mow the lawn I will stop back in later.

I shot it's military equivalent M-16 and its .223 round for years. And more rounds than I can ever count. Using the small caliber argument only works if you think nobody is educated enough to want to discuss velocities and shock wave.

Oh but a .22 and and.223 are the same caliber. Technically true. Doesn't mean it's a good argument.

Yes I consider an AR-15 chambered in .233 a high caliber weapon. It's sole purpose is to kill what it hits with great efficiency. Please don't get into arguments of caliber and target shooting technicals. The .223 will liquify most of a torso. Break through bones cleanly. Decapitate almost completely in a single shot. By design!

And you can defeat a 30 round clip with a simple legal aftermarket replacement.

I sure don't need that to be considered a home defense weapon!

It's these ever present non compromising, views on firearms that give their rabid supporters a bad look. Refusing to accept we have a problem with mass killings via the preferred AR-15 platform is the problem.

[SSGT_B]

Huh. I have not seen a 556 decapitate a person. A 700 grain 50cal is a different story. Is a gun easy? Sure. But even if guns were removed from the argument, violent crimes will still be committed using whatever is easy and convenient. Most that know me know I am pro 2nd. I have many different platforms to use but all are responsible and stored in a fashion that my kids have no easy access too. Honestly people need education before they buy and own. I’m ok with background checks. I just don’t like people thinking that the gun is the problem. People are the problem.

[TallTom]

Huh. I have not seen a 556 decapitate a person. A 700 grain 50cal is a different story. Is a gun easy? Sure. But even if guns were removed from the argument, violent crimes will still be committed using whatever is easy and convenient. Most that know me know I am pro 2nd. I have many different platforms to use but all are responsible and stored in a fashion that my kids have no easy access too. Honestly people need education before they buy and own. I’m ok with background checks. I just don’t like people thinking that the gun is the problem. People are the problem.

People that can get ready access to high powered assault rifles as easily as a 22 single shot, are the problem.

There should be a higher licensure requirement for them. Like a Class 3 now.

[Bumblebee]

People that can get ready access to high powered assault rifles as easily as a 22 single shot, are the problem.

There should be a higher licensure requirement for them. Like a Class 3 now.

When Obama was considering banning AR-15s, people were out buying them up like toilet paper before the lockdowns of the pandemic..

Some joker was on the news and had 20 of them on a cart....really?? Why??

[Bumblebee]

Huh. I have not seen a 556 decapitate a person. A 700 grain 50cal is a different story. Is a gun easy? Sure. But even if guns were removed from the argument, violent crimes will still be committed using whatever is easy and convenient. Most that know me know I am pro 2nd. I have many different platforms to use but all are responsible and stored in a fashion that my kids have no easy access too. Honestly people need education before they buy and own. I’m ok with background checks. I just don’t like people thinking that the gun is the problem. People are the problem.

NATO is probably switching to the 6.8mm round and replacing the 5.56mm soon...

The 6.8mm gave quite a bit more punch and better ballistics.

Don't know when they are switching but it has been in the trial period for quite some time....I've been retired since 2016 and we were trialing the 6.8mm before then...

[TallTom]

When Obama was considering banning AR-15s, people were out buying them up like toilet paper before the lockdowns of the pandemic..

Some joker was on the news and had 20 of them on a cart....really?? Why??

Hate to say it, but they are good investments. Cut off supply, price goes up. I don't know of any example firearm that has gone down in value.

When I sold the bricks of .22s I had, it was crazy. People acted desperate! For 22s. I had 6 responses in like 10 mins. I was like chyt I should have asked twice as much!