Why do you guys use street tires on the track ?

[Rodan]

As noted:

Pain to change tires unless you have an extra set of wheels
Tire warmers are a must for slicks (and a generator)
It sometimes rains at trackdays
Most riders don't go fast enough for race tires

Another point that hasn't been brought up:

Most trackday riders are riding their street bike. Unless you're a racer running a dedicated track bike, one of the biggest benefits of trackdays is being able to explore the limits (you and your bike) in a controlled environment. Knowing the limits makes you a better/safer rider when on the street. If you change tires for the track, you change one of the largest variables in this equation, and you lose this benefit. For a heavy, high HP bike like the 'Busa, knowing what the tire will do at the limits is critically important, not just for riding fast on the street, but for evasive maneuvers, or anytime the tire may approach the limit of adhesion.

What you learn on the track may just save your ass on the street...

 

[Rodan]

To the other regular track day attendees:

Do you think you see more folks going too fast on street tires or more folks using race tires that don't need to?

Definitely the latter...

 

[twotonevert]

To the other regular track day attendees:

Do you think you see more folks going too fast on street tires or more folks using race tires that don't need to?

I see more folks over riding thier abilities. They get caught up in the adreneline and push themselves. Pretty soon they are coming in too hot and run off the track. You have to relax, ride your own ride at a pace that is comfortable to you. I am not out there racing anyone. Just riding my bike.

 

[BA BUSA]

To the other regular track day attendees:

Do you think you see more folks going too fast on street tires or more folks using race tires that don't need to?

LOL!!!

What's the speed limit on a "race track" what's too fast ???

At what point is a tire going to break loose...how much tire is TOO much ???

Sure if your in the novice group, you should not be on anything more than a street "sport tire"
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[fastblackblur]

I see more folks over riding thier abilities. They get caught up in the adreneline and push themselves. Pretty soon they are coming in too hot and run off the track. You have to relax, ride your own ride at a pace that is comfortable to you. I am not out there racing anyone. Just riding my bike.

Totaly agree on that, regardless of what kind of rubber they are on. I think, as with anything, the spark of compitition is a good ingrediant for improvement. The trick is not to step too far out of your comfort bubble too quickly. "To thine own self be true"

 

[captain]

BA BUSA LOL!!!

What's the speed limit on a "race track" what's too fast ???

The speed at which you crash would be considered the limit I think... It's all good until you take a corner too fast or run off the track... That limit is maintained my the rider, its up to the rider to know the limits of the bike and his abilities on that bike.

At what point is a tire going to break loose...how much tire is TOO much ???

Again, if you know that you have street tires on the track then you should know what the levels are. If you push it and crash you have no one but yourself to blame. However there is a calculated risk.... Having a good idea of what your goals are for the track vs what you, your bike and the tires can do should all be taken into consideration. Running in the street class you aren't "Racing" others for times or a trophy, its about you learning your bike and trying to become the best rider you can be. No one forces a rider to go faster or to compete with others. There is no harm or embarrasement if you get passed by someone that is running a faster pace... This is where guys get caught running too hot for their bike setup (including tires) and their abilities...

Sure if your in the novice group, you should not be on anything more than a street "sport tire"

Once again I would have to say that it is up to the rider to decide what his pace and goals are for the day... When I take the busa on the track I know right up front that I am going to be passed all day by smaller bikes, better riders and even some guys riding with race tires... I CHOOSE to ride the speed and style I do because I am working to be a smoother rider not a faster one...

 

[twotonevert]

BA BUSA LOL!!!


The speed at which you crash would be considered the limit I think... It's all good until you take a corner too fast or run off the track... That limit is maintained my the rider, its up to the rider to know the limits of the bike and his abilities on that bike.


Again, if you know that you have street tires on the track then you should know what the levels are. If you push it and crash you have no one but yourself to blame. However there is a calculated risk.... Having a good idea of what your goals are for the track vs what you, your bike and the tires can do should all be taken into consideration. Running in the street class you aren't "Racing" others for times or a trophy, its about you learning your bike and trying to become the best rider you can be. No one forces a rider to go faster or to compete with others. There is no harm or embarrasement if you get passed by someone that is running a faster pace... This is where guys get caught running too hot for their bike setup (including tires) and their abilities...


Once again I would have to say that it is up to the rider to decide what his pace and goals are for the day... When I take the busa on the track I know right up front that I am going to be passed all day by smaller bikes, better riders and even some guys riding with race tires... I CHOOSE to ride the speed and style I do because I am working to be a smoother rider not a faster one...

Hence the reason we always have fun.

 

[BA BUSA]

BA BUSA LOL!!!


The speed at which you crash would be considered the limit I think... It's all good until you take a corner too fast or run off the track... That limit is maintained my the rider, its up to the rider to know the limits of the bike and his abilities on that bike.


Again, if you know that you have street tires on the track then you should know what the levels are. If you push it and crash you have no one but yourself to blame. However there is a calculated risk.... Having a good idea of what your goals are for the track vs what you, your bike and the tires can do should all be taken into consideration. Running in the street class you aren't "Racing" others for times or a trophy, its about you learning your bike and trying to become the best rider you can be. No one forces a rider to go faster or to compete with others. There is no harm or embarrasement if you get passed by someone that is running a faster pace... This is where guys get caught running too hot for their bike setup (including tires) and their abilities...


Once again I would have to say that it is up to the rider to decide what his pace and goals are for the day... When I take the busa on the track I know right up front that I am going to be passed all day by smaller bikes, better riders and even some guys riding with race tires... I CHOOSE to ride the speed and style I do because I am working to be a smoother rider not a faster one...

My point was, what are the limits of your tires and your skill level...who's to say "you're going too fast for those tires"...or you're "not fast enough to run those tires" ???

I know what works for me...some times I'm just getting some laps and working on the bike set up...other times it's on!!!
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[captain]

My point was, what are the limits of your tires and your skill level...who's to say "you're going too fast for those tires"...or you're "not fast enough to run those tires" ???

I know what works for me...some times I'm just getting some laps and working on the bike set up...other times it's on!!!
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If your not crashing then your not going too fast.....

 

[BA BUSA]

If your not crashing then your not going too fast.....

In regards to doing a "track day"...I disagree...for a track day you should never be going 100%

You always need some reserve to deal with the unexpected...never faster than the conditions will allow.
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[Rodan]

My point was, what are the limits of your tires and your skill level...who's to say "you're going too fast for those tires"...or you're "not fast enough to run those tires" ???

I think the point was that high performance street tires are sufficient for the majority of trackday riders. They are designed for excellent adhesion with some compromise for durability, and are designed for multiple heat cycles. If you're club racing fast, you are probably going to shred street tires in short order and start sliding around and maybe crash.

Slicks are designed to run at higher temps, and most riders are not going fast enough to keep them in their operating range. They will sometimes perform worse than a 'street' tire if you can't get the temps up. They also require tire warmers, and are designed for a much smaller number of heat cycles. A rider who's not club racing fast will see no benefit from running slicks.

The new Pirelli may blur the lines on this...

 

[Rodan]

In regards to doing a "track day"...I disagree...for a track day you should never be going 100%

You always need some reserve to deal with the unexpected...never faster than the conditions will allow.

The whole point of riding on a track is to be able to go 100% in a controlled environment. How else can you improve your skills? Can you get hurt on the track? Sure you can, and you have to be sensible about it, but it's the safest place to push your personal envelope. Knowing where 100% is may just save your ass on the street....

 

[BA BUSA]

I think the point was that high performance street tires are sufficient for the majority of trackday riders. They are designed for excellent adhesion with some compromise for durability, and are designed for multiple heat cycles. If you're club racing fast, you are probably going to shred street tires in short order and start sliding around and maybe crash.

Slicks are designed to run at higher temps, and most riders are not going fast enough to keep them in their operating range. They will sometimes perform worse than a 'street' tire if you can't get the temps up. They also require tire warmers, and are designed for a much smaller number of heat cycles. A rider who's not club racing fast will see no benefit from running slicks.

The new Pirelli may blur the lines on this...

Agreed!

IMHO advanced group riders and the faster guys in intermediate group can run enough pace to benefit from slicks/race tires.
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[BA BUSA]

The whole point of riding on a track is to be able to go 100% in a controlled environment. How else can you improve your skills? Can you get hurt on the track? Sure you can, and you have to be sensible about it, but it's the safest place to push your personal envelope. Knowing where 100% is may just save your ass on the street....

100% = Racing

If you were on the track by yourself...then push it as far as you want.

If you take the wrong line and have no room to save it...probably going off track or crash. You work up to your limits...scare yourself...then realise you can go faster, or you need to back off. You can not maintain 100% for long...pro racers know that they can't win if they don't finish the race...postioning for that moment when they need to go all out to win the race.

Track day is practice...you may get to 100% of your comfort level, but there is always more to learn.
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[fastblackblur]

At a track day you have to be much more conscious of the other riders. Give yourself some time to figure out who runs consistent lines and who’s not.

 

[Rodan]

At a track day you have to be much more conscious of the other riders. Give yourself some time to figure out who runs consistent lines and who’s not.

Definitely true. Once you're in the advanced groups, you're mostly riding with the club racers who are there for extra practice, so you can be pretty confident of the other riders' abilities.

The beginner's group is usually the scary one!!

You have to approach what you think is 100% if you are going to progress and improve. As you say, sometimes you scare yourself, but usually you find out what you thought was 100%, wasn't. The first few times you slide the front it's scary as hell, but you learn that it doesn't mean you're going to crash. That may keep you from panicking when it happens on the street.

I'm not saying that you have to run 100% all the time, but that is what the track is for. One of the biggest improvements I ever made at the track was when I hooked up with and followed around one of the guys who generally ran the same pace as I did, but we were going a lot faster than usual. A couple of turns I was scared to death but just trusted the bike and tossed it in there. Turns out, it was one of the local guys that raced AMA riding my buddies bike! No wonder we were haulin'! Pushing it that hard took me to a new level, and I learned a lot, even though I was near panic in a few turns.

 

[EarlyBird]

Saiid:

I run a street/track style tire for these reasons. Some will be a repeat.

One the cost... it is cheaper then race slicks.

Two I dont have tire warmer. So the street tires warm up quicker. Race slicks require more heat for them to work correctly. This is were tire warmers are needed and a pace to keep them hot. On the street not a good combo.

Three I want to find the limit of me/my bike/and said "tire combo" when I am at a track day. Then I know for the most part, what I have under me when I ride on the street. And can adjust my limits and room for error accordingly.

Four Ok, being lazy or not having the money for spare rims and tires to swap back and forth from.

Five I burn the sides off at the track and the centers off on the street.

Six having almost like race slick grip on the street, with some safety of a rain groove pattern for thoughs wet days.


I hope this helps!

 

[BA BUSA]

Definitely true. Once you're in the advanced groups, you're mostly riding with the club racers who are there for extra practice, so you can be pretty confident of the other riders' abilities.

The beginner's group is usually the scary one!!

You have to approach what you think is 100% if you are going to progress and improve. As you say, sometimes you scare yourself, but usually you find out what you thought was 100%, wasn't. The first few times you slide the front it's scary as hell, but you learn that it doesn't mean you're going to crash. That may keep you from panicking when it happens on the street.

I'm not saying that you have to run 100% all the time, but that is what the track is for. One of the biggest improvements I ever made at the track was when I hooked up with and followed around one of the guys who generally ran the same pace as I did, but we were going a lot faster than usual. A couple of turns I was scared to death but just trusted the bike and tossed it in there. Turns out, it was one of the local guys that raced AMA riding my buddies bike! No wonder we were haulin'! Pushing it that hard took me to a new level, and I learned a lot, even though I was near panic in a few turns.

Bingo!!!

Good post.
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[raydog]

Of course it's a personal decision as to which tires you run. Me, when I build a deck in the air I use 6x6 posts even if 4x4's are called for. Hot slicks take you where other tires don't. Someone said suspension then comes into play (Tuf I think) when you make the move to slicks. So true, like any performance mods, other issues surface after you install a high end mod, part of the equasion.
We can all have safe and really high performance track days with proper street tires (P Pures, Q2's etc.) it's just that some want to explore the next step......it's all part of the experience of our beloved sport! Doyle

 

[EarlyBird]

Of course it's a personal decision as to which tires you run. Me, when I build a deck in the air I use 6x6 posts even if 4x4's are called for. Hot slicks take you where other tires don't. Someone said suspension then comes into play (Tuf I think) when you make the move to slicks. So true, like any performance mods, other issues surface after you install a high end mod, part of the equasion.
We can all have safe and really high performance track days with proper street tires (P Pures, Q2's etc.) it's just that some want to explore the next step......it's all part of the experience of our beloved sport! Doyle

AGREED! You pay to play! Some people have deeper wallets!lease: Either way it is all good!