Tire Talk and Warmers

[Twobrothersbusa]

I was poking around the STT forum and got this in response to my idea of getting warmers for my Dunlop Q2s.

My response to him was how do you overheat a tire at proper temp and at proper pressure by using warmers? The tire is at race pace temps the first lap; how is that bad?

Quote:
"They're purely street tires, with a high silica content for grip. They're not designed for the same amount of heat that a race compound tire is, temps that can reach 230° or more. By using warmers, starting them off at 180°, you will quickly overheat the tire, making them dangerously greasy and slick. The Q2s are street tires and less than ideal for the track, particularly on a large displacement bike. A tire like the Michelin power pure is a step up from that and doesn't require warmers and the Power One Commercial is better yet, particularly for a faster intermediate rider up to advanced. It is also warmer optional, although warmers can be used with them.
For the op, whom I presume is a novice or intermediate rider, if you want more tire life, consider a smaller displacement bike. I get 8a days from a set of power pures, coaching 14at or more sessions per day."

 

[Tufbusa]

I was poking around the STT forum and got this in response to my idea of getting warmers for my Dunlop Q2s.

My response to him was how do you overheat a tire at proper temp and at proper pressure by using warmers? The tire is at race pace temps the first lap; how is that bad?

Quote:
"They're purely street tires, with a high silica content for grip. Ask this tire genius why his RACE rain tires are high in silica? He obviously has no clue! They're not designed for the same amount of heat that a race compound tire is, temps that can reach 230° or more. By using warmers, starting them off at 180°, you will quickly overheat the tire, making them dangerously greasy and slick. The Q2s are street tires and less than ideal for the track, particularly on a large displacement bike. Maybe Ricky Racer should ask Jason Pridmore what he thinks of the Q2. I've never witnessed a club racer on their fully clad race bikes with Race Rubber who could stay in Jason's smoke on a bone stock GSXR1K shod with Q2s. Maybe he should chat with Ben Bostrom who mounted a set of Q2s on his race bike for a romp on the track before Ricky Racer writes a check that his A$$ can't cover? A tire like the Michelin power pure is a step up from that and doesn't require warmers and the Power One Commercial is better yet, particularly for a faster intermediate rider up to advanced. It is also warmer optional, although warmers can be used with them.
For the op, whom I presume is a novice or intermediate rider, if you want more tire life, consider a smaller displacement bike. I get 8a days from a set of power pures, coaching 14at or more sessions per day."

Tire warmers on street tires, race tires or any tire for that manner serves the same purpose "To avoid wasting time on warm up laps"! This poor bloke is not nearly as well schooled on tires as he thinks he is!

You are welcome to post my remarks up on your thread if you like.

 

[Tufbusa]

If you don't mind Charlie, send me a link to that thread. I'd love to read it!

 

[Tiller]

Here you go Steve-o

The good stuff starts at the bottom of page 1 and on page 2

Sportbike Track Time Forum :: View topic - Dunlop GP or Slicks Tire Life

 

[sixpack577]

School me on tire warmers.
I've read about them before, but I'de like info striaght from the horse's mouth.
I'm no track guy, I'de just like to know.
How long on prior to track time? An hr? How much tire warm up riding time can/do they eliminate?
This is why you're here Tuf

 

[Busa1166]

None of you all know how to properly heat up a tire for a race

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Tuf, your comments make me 100% sure that experience out does any amount of forum chatter. Lots of racers want to share experience they don't have. This guy seems to be one of them that has sucked down the Michelin koolaid.

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Dayum...I'd love to have your experience shared in my little STT group from the south. Jump in there on the link and mix it up a bit.

Sportbike Track Time Forum :: View topic - Dunlop GP or Slicks Tire Life

If you don't mind Charlie, send me a link to that thread. I'd love to read it!

 

[cheferman65]

8 days on a set of tires??? Is he pushing his bike around the track?

 

[Tufbusa]

I just had a peek at your STT thread. Is that Mr. Gigantic guy the fella that bought out the previous owner of STT? For some reason his name seems to be familiar? Maybe he was the fella I chatted with in 2010 but I thought he lived down south some place? On well, I'm getting old and senile and can't remember sh itz sometime

If that yellow plate number means the same in his state as it does up here it means he is a NOVICE racer. Something like getting a learners permit when you were 15 and a half. Up here you get a white number once you get your race license.

I see there are others on that forum that are proud of their Q2s. Those boys can keep their Michelins as far as I'm concerned. I'll stick with my Q2s until someone comes along that can actually "Show Me" a better street/track tire!

 

[Tufbusa]

School me on tire warmers.
I've read about them before, but I'de like info striaght from the horse's mouth.
I'm no track guy, I'de just like to know.
How long on prior to track time? An hr? How much tire warm up riding time can/do they eliminate?
This is why you're here Tuf

Tire warmers are for track use only. All racers use them to preheat the tires before the race. They do their best to keep the time as short as possible between removing the warmers from the tire until the time they crack the throttle on the track. The tire cools fast and if the racer is delayed in any way the tire will cool to the point it will handicap his performance for the first lap maybe two.

The avid track day inthusiast many times use warmers as well, especially with race tires. A few will use warmers on street tires while most on street tires use the first two laps to warm the tires before flogging the throttle. Warmers are an asset for any track junky but coughing up $500 for warmers and another grand for a quiet generator is not in everyone's budget.

Standard tire warmers without adjustable heat control heats the tire to around 170 degrees. This seems to be the average temperature where most race tires perform best. However, you have to spank the a$$ off a race tire to reach 170 degrees on a warm summer day. Guys running in the high intermediate and medium and below advanced group will never heat a tire to 170 degrees in their life time. You MUST work the tire really hard to reach optimum temp which takes the top end racers to do. This is why a tire such as the Q2 works quite well for intermediate and low end advanced riders as they cannot work the race tire hard enough to perform at it's best and the Q2 is designed to perform at it's best at a lower temperature. With that said, at no point will a Q2 out perform an N-tec race tire if both tires are at the same temperature.

I have spent a great deal of time with an infrared thermometor in my pocket testing tires and temps. Did you know that your tire will heat up differently from one side to the other depending on which side you are working the hardest? On a left hand track for instance the difference in the left side of the tread and the right side can be as much as 15-20 degrees due to working the left side much harder. A track with 9 left turns and 3 right turns will always have more crashes in the right turns on track days because the unsuspecting souls do not realize the right side of the tire does not have the grip of the left side. So much to learn and so little time!

Oh, and it takes 45 minutes to an hour to heat a tire thoroughly with warmers. I try to get the warmers on at least an hour in advance and I feel the rim to know when the tire is ready. If the rim is toasty warm to the touch then the tire is ready to romp!

Get yore scrawny arse out to the track for some genuine unforgetable fun this season. Schedule a day with the "Team Gixer" crew at Barber and they will take good care of you while making you feel right at home during your introduction to "Track Day Fever"!

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Definitely not the new owner of STT. Thanks again for sharing. There is always some other little bit of something I'm trying to figure out.

I just had a peek at your STT thread. Is that Mr. Gigantic guy the fella that bought out the previous owner of STT? For some reason his name seems to be familiar? Maybe he was the fella I chatted with in 2010 but I thought he lived down south some place? On well, I'm getting old and senile and can't remember sh itz sometime

If that yellow plate number means the same in his state as it does up here it means he is a NOVICE racer. Something like getting a learners permit when you were 15 and a half. Up here you get a white number once you get your race license.

I see there are others on that forum that are proud of their Q2s. Those boys can keep their Michelins as far as I'm concerned. I'll stick with my Q2s until someone comes along that can actually "Show Me" a better street/track tire!

 

[sixpack577]

Tire warmers are for track use only. All racers use them to preheat the tires before the race. They do their best to keep the time as short as possible between removing the warmers from the tire until the time they crack the throttle on the track. The tire cools fast and if the racer is delayed in any way the tire will cool to the point it will handicap his performance for the first lap maybe two.

The avid track day inthusiast many times use warmers as well, especially with race tires. A few will use warmers on street tires while most on street tires use the first two laps to warm the tires before flogging the throttle. Warmers are an asset for any track junky but coughing up $500 for warmers and another grand for a quiet generator is not in everyone's budget.

Standard tire warmers without adjustable heat control heats the tire to around 170 degrees. This seems to be the average temperature where most race tires perform best. However, you have to spank the a$$ off a race tire to reach 170 degrees on a warm summer day. Guys running in the high intermediate and medium and below advanced group will never heat a tire to 170 degrees in their life time. You MUST work the tire really hard to reach optimum temp which takes the top end racers to do. This is why a tire such as the Q2 works quite well for intermediate and low end advanced riders as they cannot work the race tire hard enough to perform at it's best and the Q2 is designed to perform at it's best at a lower temperature. With that said, at no point will a Q2 out perform an N-tec race tire if both tires are at the same temperature.

I have spent a great deal of time with an infrared thermometor in my pocket testing tires and temps. Did you know that your tire will heat up differently from one side to the other depending on which side you are working the hardest? On a left hand track for instance the difference in the left side of the tread and the right side can be as much as 15-20 degrees due to working the left side much harder. A track with 9 left turns and 3 right turns will always have more crashes in the right turns on track days because the unsuspecting souls do not realize the right side of the tire does not have the grip of the left side. So much to learn and so little time!

Oh, and it takes 45 minutes to an hour to heat a tire thoroughly with warmers. I try to get the warmers on at least an hour in advance and I feel the rim to know when the tire is ready. If the rim is toasty warm to the touch then the tire is ready to romp!

Get yore scrawny arse out to the track for some genuine unforgetable fun this season. Schedule a day with the "Team Gixer" crew at Barber and they will take good care of you while making you feel right at home during your introduction to "Track Day Fever"!

I do know they aren't for the street.
Thanks for the info, that's what I wanted to know.
Barber is a long way from me, but VIR is only an hr. I just never seem to be able to make the dates work.
It's in my plans yet again this year.
All I need is to spend more money on my already expensive habbit because I'm sure I'll love it, no cars, no oncoming traffic, no speed limits, I'm hooked without even having to try it

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Make sure you read up on the new curbing at VIR before you book your time there. The new curbs are NOT bike friendly.

FIRST PERSON/OPINION: New Concrete Curbs At VIR Increase Injury Potential For Motorcycle Riders News Article // RoadracingWorld.com

 

[skydivr]

Count me out of ever riding VIR with that curbing installed! Earlybird is gonna be extremely dissapointed.

 

[sixpack577]

That's the first time I've seen those!
I haven't been to a race there since the summer before last.
I doubt VIR cares about bikes anymore anyway. Ever since their idiot decision to get rid of Superbike after a decade.
I don't like the look of that curb at all either, there's already enough stuff waiting to get you as it is.
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[fallenarch]

Can someone explain to be the point of that curbing? I was hoping to do a track day this year but I'm not rolling on that stuff.

 

[Tufbusa]

I've never heard any official definition of the cooping/curbing. I have always thought it was to keep the cars from hanging the inside wheel off the pavement through the apex of corners?

 

[Jacobs]

I've never heard any official definition of the cooping/curbing. I have always thought it was to keep the cars from hanging the inside wheel off the pavement through the apex of corners?

That would be my first assumption also.

Back on to the Q2's. I have no personal experience around a race track, but I do have very good experience on several different CC bikes with Q2's on them. The Q2 is our best selling tire, not only because of price, but because of all around performance. We have had extremely good reviews from nearly everyone around here and on a personal level when I've "stretched the legs out" on a few of the 600's/1000's with these tires, they were very predictable and reliable in cornering/riding

 

[skydivr]

Justin, have you ever priced tires to anyone on this board? If the price is right we'd all rather buy them from you instead....