Politics, war and my personal perspective..

[thrasherfox]

I was going to respond to another thread and decided it was too long and too in depth to add to another thread, so I decided to start my own thread.

Below is something I typed up today, this is strictly my perspective on how I see things in regards to the war in Afghanistan and in Iraq. It is somewhat of what I might consider a history lesson as to lessons learned from Afghanistan when Russian tried to invade, to why we went into Iraq, why we are still there and why we need to be there and then I flow into the presidential campaign and I tie everything together and provide my insight as to whom I am voting for in the presidential campaign and why I am voting for them.

This is real long (I had to split it into 3 separate posts) but I hope that anyone who reads this finds it at least interesting enough to finish it, and if they finish it I hope they walk away with maybe a new perspective on things as a whole.

If you don’t like long reads and don’t have patience and get bored easily, walk away from this thread now and don’t look back.

And again, this is just MY perspective, this is MY truth as I see it and know it. Two people can hold truths about the same issue and which are totally 180 degrees from each other, does this mean one is wrong and one is right? Nope wrong and right is a perspective it is not a truth, wrong and right is not something that is tangible, it is ONLY a perspective and nothing more. And since it is a perspective it can not be considered a cosmic truth.



Yeah the whole thing of "we shouldn’t get involved, it wasn’t any of our business" doesn’t fly. (in reagrds to being in Iraq)

We are currently the most powerful nation in the world, we are superior on many levels. our war fighters are feared, our technology in comparison to most other countries is superior, and the countries that are on par with us probably got their technologies from us or at least a joint effort.

And with great power comes great responsibilities.

In most cases we have been asked by governments to help them, or by a large population to help them.

Lets start with Afghanistan, that place had been hosed up for a long time. They have needed help for a long time.

Russia tried to invade Afghanistan and eventually gave up, It became too long and drawn out. When they gave up and withdrew there was a power vacuum and the Taliban took over the country.

I must pause here and make a point.

TO ALL WHO THINK WE SHOULD PULL OUT OF IRAQ PLEASE SERIOUSLY CONSIDER THIS.

As I have been saying all along, we cannot pull out of Iraq until it can take care of itself. That statement seems to fall on deaf ears when saying this to people who think we should pull out of Iraq because it is none of our business.

I offer up as an example of WHY we cannot pull out until the proper time, and that is Afghanistan, as mentioned above, When Russia pulled out of Afghanistan because they gave up, I will re-iterate, the TALIBAN TOOK OVER THE COUNTRY. And when the Taliban took over the country they became more powerful.

And who eventually attacked the United States on 9/11 and flew planes into the twin towers?

Say it with me. THE TALIBAN.

Iraq is no different, but instead of it being Russia it is the United States and guess what? The Taliban are looking for a new home because we kicked them out of their old one because they attacked us.

Which leads us back to Iraq.

Kuwait and the United States have been an allies for awhile. Well before Iraq invaded Kuwait.

You could maybe look at Kuwait to the United States using the comparison of an adopted child to a set of parents.

Now, if you have adopted a child and your neighbor decides they are going to kick the crap out of your adopted child, are you going to just let it go? Or are you going to protect your adopted child?

We had no choice but to help Kuwait, we were and are allies, they got invaded, part of that alliance involves an agreement to protect our allies.

So like it or not we HAD to go in and help Kuwait by kicking Iraq out.

So, now that we have established why we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait, lets look at what happened next.

We kick the crap out of Iraqi forces, we push them out of Kuwait and start to drive them deep into Iraq.

Because of our involvement, this sparked an uprising in Iraq, Iraqi’s wanted Saddam out of power and they felt that since the United States was there kicking the crap out of the Iraqi forces this would be a good time to rise up.

Here is a quote from the below article in reference to the Iraqi’s asking for the US help

“Delegates from two dozen Iraqi opposition groups appealed to the United States for help. But administration officials repeatedly said they would not involve U.S. troops in what they considered an internal matter for the Iraqi people.”

Here is the full article that you can read to provide you more information as to what was happing, and how that affected the second gulf war.

Uprising in Iraq may be slow because of U.S. inaction in 1991

The Shiites decided to uprise anyway without official support from the United States.

If I remember correctly US Military commanders knew what was going on and advised the president and congress that our military needed keep pushing and to help the internal uprising since we were so far into it anyway.

Because of all the different scenarios that were being analyzed it was determined that the United States should not get involved in the internal affairs of the Iraqi people (this is discussed in the above article.)

When we agreed upon a cease fire Iraqi forces under Saddam’s direction focuses on the uprising that was basically started and encouraged by the United States actions.

But guess what? The United States didn’t want to get involved so the uprising was squashed, Iraqi forces used napalm, cluster bombs and Scud missiles and squashed the rebellion.

Over 30,000 Iraqi’s were killed because of this and thousands more fled to Iran.

Once Saddam regained control of his country he was pretty pissed, the Iraq / Iran conflict depleted Iraq’s wealth, Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait was intended to help Iraq regains its wealth, and since Kuwait at one time was part of Iraq Saddam felt it was his right to take Kuwait back.

Not only did the US involvement totally destroy Saddam’s hopes and plans of getting his nation back on its feet, we also sparked and uprising that required him to kill over 30,000 of his own people, and he knew this was going to be problematic initself (killing 30,000 Iraqi's using Napam and cluster bombs on Iraqi soil).

So yeah, Saddam began to have a hatred for the United States at this point.

 

[thrasherfox]

And the people that hated Saddam began to have a dislike for the United States because they felt we let them down by not assisting.

So we entered into a no win situation with all of Iraq being pissed off at us, some for kicking the crap out of them and the rest were upset at us for not continuing to kick the crap out of them.

And the people who lost loved ones in the uprising basically blame the United States for not helping them.

So with Saddam’s future hopes being crushed by basically one entity and one entity alone his hatred began to grow for the United States.

Enter in years of Sanctions. Who Saddam became more and more efficient at by passing with the help of its neighbors, France and Russia.

So Saddam is slowly rebuilding his weapons, and yes he did have weapons of mass destruction.. he is gaining growing support through France and Russia and the EU, he is pissed off at the United States because we are the one entity trying to keep him in check because it was the right thing to do and then enter into the equation 9/11.

While I don’t believe Saddam had any part in the attacks on the United States I am sure he mused in them.

So the Taliban awaken the sleeping giant, we go in and kick the crap out of the Taliban and liberate Afghanistan from the Taliban rule (which was a terrible thing in the first place).

Now, the Taliban has been kicked to crap, they no longer really have a safe haven, so they began looking for a new location to establish as a home. They consider Iraq.

They begin to establish covert meetings with Saddam loyalists (this has been determined by declassified released documents from US intelligence combined with Brittan and Israel intelligence working independently). While Saddam had no love for the Taliban or their ways, he also had less love for the United States, the Taliban had not caused the problems for Saddam that the United States has. So as the old saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

So, now we are looking at the possibility of the Taliban establishing a new home in a country where the leader has a growing hatred for the United States, and we are looking at Saddam who is having a growing hatred for the United States now having a way to reach out and touch the United States for payback through the us of the Taliban and the terrorist network.

So if there had been a relationship established between Saddam and the Taliban it would have been one of convenience, Saddam providing a safe haven for the Taliban, and the Taliban in return providing the ability to strike at the United States.

It would have been a match made in Hell for the United States, this would have been a huge real threat that we could not ignore.

Combine this threat with the fact that the administration probably always felt some guilt and responsibility for all the lives lost in 1991 because we chose not to help at that time.
And don’t forget to add in that Iraq was becoming more and more in debt financially to France and Russia because of the under the table dealings with these governments. The increase debt to France and Russia is the primary reason that France, Russia and the EU was against going to war with Iraq, it was all about money for them.

People that are clueless to the details I am providing always looked at it backwards, they have always stated the United States went into Iraq for the oil, that we were doing it for wealth. And the lack of support from the United Nations was proof.

Guess what? That was not only always inaccurate, it was the complete opposite, we were trying to do what was right, but the United Nations, France, Russia, the EU all knew that if the United States kicked the crap out of Saddam and removed him from power they would NEVER EVER be able to get back all the money Saddam and the Iraqi government owed them because that government would not longer exist.

Even showing any kind of support at all for any kind of invasion would basically mean they were writing off the dept Iraq owed. And there was HUGE amount of money involved.


So, now I have provided information why we went into Afghanistan, I provided information why we had to go into Iraq.

Now, lets look at where we are currently. We are currently in Iraq and we are currently in Afghanistan.

Neither place is strong enough to take care of themselves, the Taliban are still around and still need a home. And Kuwait is still our little brother that we must protect because Kuwait WANTS the relationship.

Lets just focus on Iraq.

We have the Taliban who really need a new country, we have Iran who hates the United States (the government, not really the people, the people of Iran are mostly pro western but that is best left for another discussion). So we have two entities that would jump at the chance to take over Iraq.

Keep in mind, Iran might want to take over Iraq for no other reason than to ensure that the United States could not use Iraq as a base of operations if Iran decided to enter into conflict with the United States

There is a stronger desire by enemies of the United States to take over Iraq than there was to take over Afghanistan when Russia pulled out.

I can almost give a 100% assurance that if the United States pulled out before Iraq could take care of itself it would cause a power vacuum.

Things are starting to get back to normal in Iraq, things are getting better for the people, terrorism is becoming less and less, the country is becoming stable. We are almost there.

If we pulled out now either the insurgency would spike to gain power or Iran would decide this would be its best time to strike to ensure the United States did not have a place for base of operations if Iran ever decided to enter conflict.

If either of those scenarios happened, it would cause Iraq to become a place of utter chaos. The established military would try to defend or they would defect. In Either case lots of lives would be lost.

In both cases, whether it be Iran or the Taliban, the Iraqi people would end up being under the control of a dictatorship probably worse than Saddam.

And the Iran government doesn’t like Iraqi’s, and the Taliban don’t care for them either, so I am pretty sure life would become a living hell for those Iraqi citizens.

Oh did I mention there has been proof that Iran has been supporting the insurgency in Iraq? What if Iran AND the Taliban and the general insurgency decide to just outwardly combine all efforts to take of Iraq?

So if that happened guess what now?

The Iraqi citizens will hate the United States for allowing it to happen, and historically this would be twice the United States bailed on them when they needed us, we would might as well never ever count on have any relations with any Iraqi, they would all hate us for all of eternity.

The entire world would see the chaos in Iraq and all the people who criticized the United States for going into Iraq, and for staying in Iraq and for not pulling out of Iraq, would now start to blame the United States and they would say “Well, yeah I wasn’t for them going in, but since they were there they should have stayed to make sure this didn’t happen”

So the entire world would blame the United States for the Chaos in Iraq, no one would trust us to help them out and the United States would become the ostracized big brother that no one cares about

And don’t forget about Kuwait, since we are Kuwaits big protector and we are allies do you think any enemy of the United States that takes over Iraq is going to leave Kuwait in peace? Yeah right keep dreaming, if we give up Iraq we might as well count on Kuwait eventually getting drug back into the mess.

Then what? If Kuwait gets drug back into it by being attacked what do we do? Do we cut ties with Kuwait? If we do so no other country in the world could ever trust the United States as an allie, so then what? Do we go in and provide military support for Kuwait?

If we do that guess what? We are back where we were in 1991 but way worse off, because if someone does screw with Kuwait it will probably be for no other reason than to draw United States troops into an area where they can kill as many of them as possible.

Kuwait would be used as bait to get at the United States.


So now tie all this into the presidential elections.

You have the republicans, primarily are for staying the course with Iraq and ensuring the job is finished properly. As I have mentioned before a good majority of republicans seem to have some sort of ties with the government or the military, they kind of have more intimate knowledge as to what is at stake.

And on the other side you have the democrats who have historically been more passive in nature. There position seems to be we just need to pull out of Iraq, period.

It seems that a good majority of democrats haven’t had much government or military experience. They do not posses the more intimate knowledge of what has gone on and what is at stake. They are more concerned with what is happening here and now (in the United States) and normally cannot see a reason for war, all they know is what the media is feeding them which is normally democratically biased which is predominantly anti war.

And the media as far as I am concerned is a huge part of the problem, I have served our nation for over 20 years, 10 years in the Marines, and now over 10 years as a DoD civilian. It is sad to see news items being reported that I know for a fact is in accurate, but how do I know this? Because I have intimate knowledge of what is going on.

People that have no military or DoD government experience don’t have that check and balance, all they can go by is what is on the news, and the news can be so convincing.

Most and I say “most” of what the news reports is "somewhat" accurate, where the problem lies in is not providing ALL the information and not providing a fuller picture of events.

 

[thrasherfox]

An example of this is how the news media talks about how many US Soldiers have lost their live in Iraq.

What the news DOESN’T tell you is that Iraq is about the same size of California, and more people in Californian die of violent crimes per year than all of Iraq.

Of all the troops that are over there do you think they would be safe if all of sudden they were all brought back to the United States?

Of all the troops that are brought back how many do you think would be killed in random acts of violence, at least in Iraq they are on guard all the time and allowed to carry weapons, back here in the states there guard is down and they are not allowed to carry weapons.

How many of those troops would come back and be killed in auto accidents? Back here in the states they would be back driving all the time, over there when they do drive it is armored vehicles and they are not as susceptible to random vehicle accidents.

I would never even minimize the death of any soldier, but you have to take a look at the possibility that if we brought all the soldiers home from Iraq just as many if not more would die here in the United States.

This could not really be said for any other war, Vietnam, Korea, WWI or WWII etc, but for Iraq, while the loss of any life is sad and should be honored, the loss has honestly been relatively low in comparison to past wars.

But again to any that have lost loved ones friends etc, I am sorry and I am not trying to minimize your loss.

So I think I have established in what is my perception sort of a generalization mind set for republicans and democrats.

In general:

Republican: Want to finish what I feel needs to be finished in Iraq, has more of a world wide view of what is at stake.

McCain has military back ground and experience and from what I can tell his loyalty to this country has never been question.


Democrats: Making promises to pull all of our troops at by next year, without consideration to if Iraq will be ready. Democrats inherently more concerned with United States and typically have less of a world wide perspective on things.

Obama: No military experience, no DoD experience, less than year of congressional experience. Does not posses intimate knowledge of military affairs and does not have a personal perspective as to what is at stake in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan.

His loyalty has been brought into question on different levels. And before all of you Obama supporters try hammering me again just look at what I am saying. I am not saying he is or isn’t loyal, but everyone has a good idea of where his pastor stands (or his previous pastor whom he cut ties with ONLY after it became an issue)

And I have done some research into Obama’s fathers to get a better understanding into the possible influences.

His real father seems to not have much of an influence, basically hooked up with Obama’s mother when she was 18, Obama’s real father bailed and left them to fend for themselves. Obama’s real father seems to have had a lot of issues but doesn’t see, to be anyone who had any type of influence.

Obama’s step father was Muslim but it seems he was not a “devout” Muslim much less a Muslim extremist.

And I don’t believe I have problems with what I would consider a “true” Muslim my problems are with Muslim extremists.

I have read the Koran, and while I am I Christian, and I believe in the bible that I read I was amazed at the similarities between the true Muslim religion and Christianity, it is the Christian extremists and Muslim extremist that give everyone a bad name on both sides.

The Koran even contains references and holds reverence to the same people that the Christian bible does in some circumstances.

I will add as I have stated before, I am not republican and I am not a democrat, I will vote for who I think is the best candidate and taking into consideration the state of affairs at the time.

During all my analyzing of the candidates there was even a time that I was leaning towards voting for Obama.

So where does this all leave me now personally?

I am voting for McCain. And why? Because like it or not we are at war, we are at war with terrorism, we will be at war with terrorism and terrorist for awhile. We have to have someone in office at this time that understand war, understand conflict at a personal level as much as possible.

McCain is old, I believe he would be the oldest first term president in office. I never really comprehended what I am about to say until recently, but age does indicate wisdom to a certain extent. I am 46 years old, I often reflect back upon my life and so I often I think to myself “What in the he11 was I thinking!!” experience has provided me wisdom and wisdom has helped me acknowledge the foolishness of my youth. And experience and wisdom are only bestowed on those that should receive by the passing of time. You can not just impart experience and wisdom upon someone over night.

McCain has the experience that would provide him with the wisdom he would need to run a country.

Obama neither has the years under his belt to obtain the experience he would need that would provide him the wisdom he would require to run a nation effectively during war time. Please note the phrase “During war time”

If we were not in the middle of a war, one that is probably the most important war we have ever been drug into, against an enemy that has no honor and has no specific homeland that we can attack, then I might have considered voting for Obama and giving him a chance, but not right now, the stakes are too high. I need someone that I feel can jump into the white house and take charge. I feel McCain can accomplish this, I think if Obama gets elected most of this first 4 years will be a steep learning curve on what to do and what not to do. And as I have said I feel there is too much as stake.

So whomever finished reading this, I hope my insight provided some kind of entertainment and caused the brain cells to fire a little bit differently and maybe provided a different prospective that makes sense.

If nothing else I think I have in-depth explained why my position is the way it is

 

[runeight]

Side note:

Make a pot of coffee before read.



r8

 

[thrasherfox]

Side note:

Make a pot of coffee before read.



r8

lol yeah no kidding, warned ya

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

wow, lengthy. I will have to go back and read again to absorb it all.

I am amazed at how a group of people can say we should not be there helping out other people, we should be out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan, it's not our job to take care of these people, it's not our fight. Yet these are the same people who believe we should keep supporting those in this country that can work but choose not to by pumping more money into failed economic programs. These are the same people who want to continue sending billions upon billions to other countries, even those that do not like the US of A.

 

[Vic_E55_2001]

Wow... sorry, too much read, I promised myself not to get involved in political discussions anymore on this board. For everyone else..... Good luck! And please educate yourself before you make ANY decision.

 

[shean1]

An example of this is how the news media talks about how many US Soldiers have lost their live in Iraq.

What the news DOESN’T tell you is that Iraq is about the same size of California, and more people in Californian die of violent crimes per year than all of Iraq.

Of all the troops that are over there do you think they would be safe if all of sudden they were all brought back to the United States?

Of all the troops that are brought back how many do you think would be killed in random acts of violence, at least in Iraq they are on guard all the time and allowed to carry weapons, back here in the states there guard is down and they are not allowed to carry weapons.

How many of those troops would come back and be killed in auto accidents? Back here in the states they would be back driving all the time, over there when they do drive it is armored vehicles and they are not as susceptible to random vehicle accidents.

I would never even minimize the death of any soldier, but you have to take a look at the possibility that if we brought all the soldiers home from Iraq just as many if not more would die here in the United States.

This could not really be said for any other war, Vietnam, Korea, WWI or WWII etc, but for Iraq, while the loss of any life is sad and should be honored, the loss has honestly been relatively low in comparison to past wars.

But again to any that have lost loved ones friends etc, I am sorry and I am not trying to minimize your loss.

So I think I have established in what is my perception sort of a generalization mind set for republicans and democrats.

In general:

Republican: Want to finish what I feel needs to be finished in Iraq, has more of a world wide view of what is at stake.

McCain has military back ground and experience and from what I can tell his loyalty to this country has never been question.


Democrats: Making promises to pull all of our troops at by next year, without consideration to if Iraq will be ready. Democrats inherently more concerned with United States and typically have less of a world wide perspective on things.

Obama: No military experience, no DoD experience, less than year of congressional experience. Does not posses intimate knowledge of military affairs and does not have a personal perspective as to what is at stake in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan.

His loyalty has been brought into question on different levels. And before all of you Obama supporters try hammering me again just look at what I am saying. I am not saying he is or isn’t loyal, but everyone has a good idea of where his pastor stands (or his previous pastor whom he cut ties with ONLY after it became an issue)

And I have done some research into Obama’s fathers to get a better understanding into the possible influences.

His real father seems to not have much of an influence, basically hooked up with Obama’s mother when she was 18, Obama’s real father bailed and left them to fend for themselves. Obama’s real father seems to have had a lot of issues but doesn’t see, to be anyone who had any type of influence.

Obama’s step father was Muslim but it seems he was not a “devout†Muslim much less a Muslim extremist.

And I don’t believe I have problems with what I would consider a “true†Muslim my problems are with Muslim extremists.

I have read the Koran, and while I am I Christian, and I believe in the bible that I read I was amazed at the similarities between the true Muslim religion and Christianity, it is the Christian extremists and Muslim extremist that give everyone a bad name on both sides.

The Koran even contains references and holds reverence to the same people that the Christian bible does in some circumstances.

I will add as I have stated before, I am not republican and I am not a democrat, I will vote for who I think is the best candidate and taking into consideration the state of affairs at the time.

During all my analyzing of the candidates there was even a time that I was leaning towards voting for Obama.

So where does this all leave me now personally?

I am voting for McCain. And why? Because like it or not we are at war, we are at war with terrorism, we will be at war with terrorism and terrorist for awhile. We have to have someone in office at this time that understand war, understand conflict at a personal level as much as possible.

McCain is old, I believe he would be the oldest first term president in office. I never really comprehended what I am about to say until recently, but age does indicate wisdom to a certain extent. I am 46 years old, I often reflect back upon my life and so I often I think to myself “What in the he11 was I thinking!!†experience has provided me wisdom and wisdom has helped me acknowledge the foolishness of my youth. And experience and wisdom are only bestowed on those that should receive by the passing of time. You can not just impart experience and wisdom upon someone over night.

McCain has the experience that would provide him with the wisdom he would need to run a country.

Obama neither has the years under his belt to obtain the experience he would need that would provide him the wisdom he would require to run a nation effectively during war time. Please note the phrase “During war timeâ€

If we were not in the middle of a war, one that is probably the most important war we have ever been drug into, against an enemy that has no honor and has no specific homeland that we can attack, then I might have considered voting for Obama and giving him a chance, but not right now, the stakes are too high. I need someone that I feel can jump into the white house and take charge. I feel McCain can accomplish this, I think if Obama gets elected most of this first 4 years will be a steep learning curve on what to do and what not to do. And as I have said I feel there is too much as stake.

So whomever finished reading this, I hope my insight provided some kind of entertainment and caused the brain cells to fire a little bit differently and maybe provided a different prospective that makes sense.

If nothing else I think I have in-depth explained why my position is the way it is

Excellent read... Yes long but worth it... Theres actually a lot of facts you speak about that the average American does not have a clue about, like the thousands of Kurds slaughtered in the North of Iraq after we withdrew the first time.. The american public blindly accepted that it was a good idea for us to go back based of of 9/11..

And NO I do not agree with all your statements and facts BUT, thats the beauty of America, we have the right to our opinions AND beliefs, does NOT make us more or less patriotic.. And also for the most part I think both parties are full of crap, they both use labels like liberal OR conservative to divide the public and manipulate them... Judging by some of the things I hear people say in print and on line Its seems to work very well..
l also subscribe to the lesser of two evils theory...

 

[thrasherfox]

Excellent read... Yes long but worth it... Theres actually a lot of facts you speak about that the average American does not have a clue about, like the thousands of Kurds slaughtered in the North of Iraq after we withdrew the first time.. The american public blindly accepted that it was a good idea for us to go back based of of 9/11..

And NO I do not agree with all your statements and facts BUT, thats the beauty of America, we have the right to our opinions AND beliefs, does NOT make us more or less patriotic.. And also for the most part I think both parties are full of crap, they both use labels like liberal OR conservative to divide the public and manipulate them... Judging by some of the things I hear people say in print and on line Its seems to work very well..
l also subscribe to the lesser of two evils theory...

Which facts did you not agree with? if you feel I am wrong in anything I said please point it out so I can do more research on it.

To the best of my knowledge I was correct in the statements I made, if I am wrong I would like to be shown so I can correct myself.

 

[Scar]

I'm gonna have to look at this when I'm at home... If I sit too long in front of my computer without moving, people tend to think I fell asleep with my eyes open, my eyes are tattoo'd open, or, I've perished. (Look out, I might spontaneously combust!)

That's a lot of work, bubba...I wondered where you were, today.

 

[shean1]

Which facts did you not agree with? if you feel I am wrong in anything I said please point it out so I can do more research on it.

To the best of my knowledge I was correct in the statements I made, if I am wrong I would like to be shown so I can correct myself.

Your statements and posts are just too long for me to go through the entire thing a second time around.

My real point is we all can look at the same problem over in the Middle East and come up with many different methods and or solutions to dealing with it.. We are stuck in a bad situation over there now, I do agree with you that to totally pull all the guys out now will throw the country into chaos, but I also do believe we were put there under false pretense..
As far as helping other countries out if asked for assistance I agree with that also, but I gotta tell ya, I would rather have had our military back home in force in New Orleans when the town was lawless during Katrina...
"Take care of home first" .... AND If were in the practice of using our military as police I would also prefer it be them at the gates in the airport when I travel on business as opposed to the underpaid and under trained TSA agents.. Some of which are NOT US citizens...

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

As far as helping other countries out if asked for assistance I agree with that also, but I gotta tell ya, I would rather have had our military back home in force in New Orleans when the town was lawless during Katrina...
"Take care of home first" .... ...

I have many friends, all LEOs, who went down after Katrina. I was next in line to go down from our team at that time but ended up not being needed. Everyone I know that went down said the same thing. They were not short of help. Several I know that went down would sit for days at a time because they were not needed. With that being said, how would the military have helped?? What could they have done that our civilian law enforcement personel didn't do??

 

[shean1]

I have many friends, all LEOs, who went down after Katrina. I was next in line to go down from our team at that time but ended up not being needed. Everyone I know that went down said the same thing. They were not short of help. Several I know that went down would sit for days at a time because they were not needed. With that being said, how would the military have helped?? What could they have done that our civilian law enforcement personel didn't do??

Maybe the military should have gone in RIGHT away once the leadership of the city of New Orleans & the state failed its citizens ??? How many days were the thousands of people in the Super dome waiting to get out ????? Wanna know.... About 4 - 5... My youngest sister graduated from Xavier University IN New Orleans one month before the storm hit... She still had friends stuck there...

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

Maybe the military should have gone in RIGHT away once the leadership of the city of New Orleans & the state failed its citizens ??? How many days were the thousands of people in the Super dome waiting to get out ????? Wanna know.... About 4 - 5... My youngest sister graduated from Xavier University IN New Orleans one month before the storm hit... She still had friends stuck there...

I never said there were not any bad situations there, my point was that there were plenty of persons available to help and had the military not been in the mid east I don't see where the response time would have been any different. It's not like everyone made different decisions on when to call in more help just because we had many of our men and women serving in the mid east at the time.

 

[shean1]

I never said there were not any bad situations there, my point was that there were plenty of persons available to help and had the military not been in the mid east I don't see where the response time would have been any different. It's not like everyone made different decisions on when to call in more help just because we had many of our men and women serving in the mid east at the time.

Bad situations... Thats an understatement
How do we... AS THE PREMIERE SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD,
"as I often hear mentioned on other guys posts" allow for our fellow brothers and sisters to drown in attics and crawl spaces trying to escape water??
Elderly people dead in folding chairs on TV ????
How is any of this acceptable ???? Were were our leaders ???
Why was no real decisive action taken within hrs???
To this day why are the levees not "rebuilt" to withstand CAT 5 hurricanes??? Our technology and resources are light years ahead of every one else on the globe... Yet our people were allowed to drown and starve ???

 

[Mr Bogus]

While not agreeing factually with the entire post, I find the vast majority of it to reflect many of my feelings..

Politics is a subject that people either could care less about or are over the top on.. Passionate people debating what does matter makes for great subject matter..

I just find it a terrible shame that most politicians do not share the passion... They are there for other reasons and often do not vote their hearts or that of the people they represent.. That said, I think EVERY politician has times they will need to vote contrary to the peoples choice in the interest of the "Greater good"

This is the reason I stand behind whom ever is president.. they have more information and bigger better brains that I could ever hope to have and of all the people in Govt, probably the biggest incentive to do the right thing... (not that there are not failures)...

All bickering aside, we need to support and offer or feelings and opinions to our leaders.. (and pray like hell they do the right thing at the right time)

 

[shean1]

While not agreeing factually with the entire post, I find the vast majority of it to reflect many of my feelings..

Politics is a subject that people either could care less about or are over the top on.. Passionate people debating what does matter makes for great subject matter..

I just find it a terrible shame that most politicians do not share the passion... They are there for other reasons and often do not vote their hearts or that of the people they represent.. That said, I think EVERY politician has times they will need to vote contrary to the peoples choice in the interest of the "Greater good"

This is the reason I stand behind whom ever is president.. they have more information and bigger better brains that I could ever hope to have and of all the people in Govt, probably the biggest incentive to do the right thing... (not that there are not failures)...

All bickering aside, we need to support and offer or feelings and opinions to our leaders.. (and pray like hell they do the right thing at the right time)

Agreed..

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

Bad situations... Thats an understatement
How do we... AS THE PREMIERE SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD,
"as I often hear mentioned on other guys posts" allow for our fellow brothers and sisters to drown in attics and crawl spaces trying to escape water??
Elderly people dead in folding chairs on TV ????
How is any of this acceptable ???? Were were our leaders ???
Why was no real decisive action taken within hrs???
To this day why are the levees not "rebuilt" to withstand CAT 5 hurricanes??? Our technology and resources are light years ahead of every one else on the globe... Yet our people were allowed to drown and starve ???

I understand your questions but at the end of the day I do not believe it is the governments job to provide for every single aspect of our lives. Many of those who were still in New Orleans were there because they chose to be there, granted some had no choice because the city or state failed.
As for being a superpower, we still can't control mother nature and we never will. There always have been and always will be natural disasters where lives will be lost, government will never prevent that and they will never be able to predict them ahead of time with any certainty.

 

[shean1]

I understand your questions but at the end of the day I do not believe it is the governments job to provide for every single aspect of our lives. Many of those who were still in New Orleans were there because they chose to be there, granted some had no choice because the city or state failed.
As for being a superpower, we still can't control mother nature and we never will. There always have been and always will be natural disasters where lives will be lost, government will never prevent that and they will never be able to predict them ahead of time with any certainty.

Points taken CTA Busa...
I gotta tell ya, a lot of those folks that were there were poor..............
I grew up here in the big city and know all types of people, the one type of person I don't think I have ever met is
"a poor person that actually chose to be poor"
And yes your 100% right, the government will let us all down if we hold our breath and count on it to keep us all safe 24/7..

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

Points taken CTA Busa...
I gotta tell ya, a lot of those folks that were there were poor..............
I grew up here in the big city and know all types of people, the one type of person I don't think I have ever met is
"a poor person that actually chose to be poor"
And yes your 100% right, the government will let us all down if we hold our breath and count on it to keep us all safe 24/7..

believe me, I hate it that help could not have gotten to many of those people but at the end of the day I'm not going to point fingers at people over it either. I also agree that most poor people do not choose to be poor, however I have met many who were poor and had the potential to change that but were too lazy to do so. I'm not saying they would have been rich, but they had the means to support themselves. I have no sympathy for these types of people as they have chose their paths.
When it comes to government assistance programs, I have no problem with them as long as the person receiving the assistance has a need. I believe it is our jobs to take care of those who can not take care of themselves. But those who can take care of themselves and chose not too, they should not be our concerns, they chose that path.