Org zimmerman verdict

[Postal]

Watch the trial and see how both sides break this whole thing down, it may surprise you. Bottom line, Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder. That means, the prosecution has to prove to the jury, without a doubt, that Zimmerman had malicious intent to harm or kill Travon from the very beginning. They have to get all six jurors to agree on a guilty verdict as well. That is the one element of this trial that will decide everything. Forget about what Travon had for breakfast, who he texted, what he was wearing, etc. forget about what Zimmerman said to Trayvon, or what Trayvon said to Zimmerman, it won't matter. The jury has to decide, guilty or not guilty, if Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill trayvon from the very beginning. What occured after they confronted each other is irrellevant, and would most likely go in Zimmerman's favor due to the FL Stand Your Ground Law, but that isn't what is on trial here, the issue is second degree murder. Can the prosecution twist things in their favor, sure. Can the defense twist things in their favor, sure. Bottom line though, you have to convince six jurors that Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill Trayvon from the beginning.

Now, all that said, even if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of that charge, Trayvon's family can still sue Zimmerman for CAUSING the death of their son, and will most likely win that suit. Zimmerman is screwed either way in my opinion. And, as a gun owner myself, I know that if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense I too could lose everything in a law suit, even if I was found not-guilty.

Just P's 2-cents.

And the trial is just starting, wow!

 

[rubbersidedown]

Good points Va.

If the case is won by Zimmerman...here comes a thousand more 'Weekend Warriors" and "Rush Hour Rambo's".

This debate... if viewed from a perfectly rational and logical approach is over the minute the point surfaces that Zimmerman of is own accord decided to play policeman.

Lawyers: Its been said that a good lawyer wants you tou tell them the truth. Then they lie for you,or "MANIPULATE" the truth.Its not just the American justice sysyem...it plays out the world over.

All of the other "facts" are irrellivent. Zimmerman played cop. End of story. If he did his "JOB" as the weekend warrior and "Observed and Reported" all would be good.

RSD.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Watch the trial and see how both sides break this whole thing down, it may surprise you. Bottom line, Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder. That means, the prosecution has to prove to the jury, without a doubt, that Zimmerman had malicious intent to harm or kill Travon from the very beginning. They have to get all six jurors to agree on a guilty verdict as well. That is the one element of this trial that will decide everything. Forget about what Travon had for breakfast, who he texted, what he was wearing, etc. forget about what Zimmerman said to Trayvon, or what Trayvon said to Zimmerman, it won't matter. The jury has to decide, guilty or not guilty, if Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill trayvon from the very beginning. What occured after they confronted each other is irrellevant, and would most likely go in Zimmerman's favor due to the FL Stand Your Ground Law, but that isn't what is on trial here, the issue is second degree murder. Can the prosecution twist things in their favor, sure. Can the defense twist things in their favor, sure. Bottom line though, you have to convince six jurors that Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill Trayvon from the beginning.

Now, all that said, even if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of that charge, Trayvon's family can still sue Zimmerman for CAUSING the death of their son, and will most likely win that suit. Zimmerman is screwed either way in my opinion. And, as a gun owner myself, I know that if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense I too could lose everything in a law suit, even if I was found not-guilty.

Just P's 2-cents.

And the trial is just starting, wow!

The "GLOVE DON'T FIT...YOU MUST AQUIT."

O.J.

He won a trial with a glove.

But lost a lawsuit...and his shirt.

RSD.

 

[Dallas Busa]

Now, all that said, even if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of that charge, Trayvon's family can still sue Zimmerman for CAUSING the death of their son, and will most likely win that suit. Zimmerman is screwed either way in my opinion. And, as a gun owner myself, I know that if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense I too could lose everything in a law suit, even if I was found not-guilty.

According to Blanca and a couple of others more familiar with Florida law than I am, Zimmerman would be protected from a civil suit if found not guilty. I find that odd, but it IS Florida after all. I can see no way this ends in anything but an acquittal. It just takes one juror in Blanca's camp for a not guilty verdict and, as has been stated, Zimmerman made good and sure Martin is no longer with us to speak for himself, soooo...!

 

[rubbersidedown]

According to Blanca and a couple of others more familiar with Florida law than I am, Zimmerman would be protected from a civil suit if found not guilty. I find that odd, but it IS Florida after all. I can see no way this ends in anything but an acquittal. It just takes one juror in Blanca's camp for a not guilty verdict and, as has been stated, Zimmerman made good and sure Martin is no longer with us to speak for himself, soooo...!

Remind me to NEVER visit Florida.

I could easily walk down the street, get approached (because of the way I look,never mind the Hayabusa hoodie ) get questioned...not provide a good enough answer,get followed and shot.

Weekend Warrior: "Hey buddy,where are you going?"

Rubb: "None of yer fuggin' business!"

Weekend Warrior:

Rubb: :firedevil: (burning in hell)

RSD.

 

[Dallas Busa]

INNOCENT PEOPLE DONT RUN........

So you keep saying (and saying, and saying, and saying), but it would appear this young man's mistake was not in running, but in not running long and hard enough. Having said that, had Zimmerman tried to stop and interrogate me I wouldn't have run, I'd have stood my ground. But I'd have been armed of course.

 

[VaBusa]

So you keep saying (and saying, and saying, and saying), but it would appear this young man's mistake was not in running, but in not running long and hard enough. Having said that, had Zimmerman tried to stop and interrogate me I wouldn't have run, I'd have stood my ground. But I'd have been armed of course.

I don't buy the "innocent people don't run" BS either...I'd run if someone came up to me in the dark, and I guess by doing that act of self-preservation, I'd be shot and killed for "suspicious activity"

 

[GoldenChild]

Then you have two ways of riding the fence in malicious intent cases cause, knowing anything can happen when a gun is involved falls on the edge of implied...

Malicious intent comes in one of two forms: expressed intent or implied intent. Malice is considered expressed in a murder case, for instance, when a jury finds that an individual deliberately intended to take the life of another person. It would be implied if the expressed intention cannot be found but there exists no evidence that there was provocation for the murder to occur. This will be a dog fight till the end.. I see a manslaughter charge coming, if not 2nd degree..

Watch the trial and see how both sides break this whole thing down, it may surprise you. Bottom line, Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder. That means, the prosecution has to prove to the jury, without a doubt, that Zimmerman had malicious intent to harm or kill Travon from the very beginning. They have to get all six jurors to agree on a guilty verdict as well. That is the one element of this trial that will decide everything. Forget about what Travon had for breakfast, who he texted, what he was wearing, etc. forget about what Zimmerman said to Trayvon, or what Trayvon said to Zimmerman, it won't matter. The jury has to decide, guilty or not guilty, if Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill trayvon from the very beginning. What occured after they confronted each other is irrellevant, and would most likely go in Zimmerman's favor due to the FL Stand Your Ground Law, but that isn't what is on trial here, the issue is second degree murder. Can the prosecution twist things in their favor, sure. Can the defense twist things in their favor, sure. Bottom line though, you have to convince six jurors that Zimmerman wanted to harm or kill Trayvon from the beginning.

Now, all that said, even if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent of that charge, Trayvon's family can still sue Zimmerman for CAUSING the death of their son, and will most likely win that suit. Zimmerman is screwed either way in my opinion. And, as a gun owner myself, I know that if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense I too could lose everything in a law suit, even if I was found not-guilty.

Just P's 2-cents.

And the trial is just starting, wow!

 

[Postal]

Then you have two ways of riding the fence in malicious intent cases cause, knowing anything can happen when a gun is involved falls on the edge of implied...

Malicious intent comes in one of two forms: expressed intent or implied intent. Malice is considered expressed in a murder case, for instance, when a jury finds that an individual deliberately intended to take the life of another person. It would be implied if the expressed intention cannot be found but there exists no evidence that there was provocation for the murder to occur. This will be a dog fight till the end.. I see a manslaughter charge coming, if not 2nd degree..

I think you are right on. Zim is gonna get charged with something. I think because he "pursued" and was "armed" will hurt his case. The single most significant mistake Zim made was that he pursued Travon when he was told by the police person on the phone NOT to pursue. That one fact in the case will cost him dearly I believe.

As a gun owner myself, and one who conceal-carries, I would NEVER pursue a bad, or even a questionable situation, I would avoid the situation at all cost and call police. Guns are for self-defense, that means someone is attacking or pursuing you. That is the way I was taught to stay out of jail.

P.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I think you are right on. Zim is gonna get charged with something. I think because he "pursued" and was "armed" will hurt his case. The single most significant mistake Zim made was that he pursued Travon when he was told by the police person on the phone NOT to pursue. That one fact in the case will cost him dearly I believe.

As a gun owner myself, and one who conceal-carries, I would NEVER pursue a bad, or even a questionable situation, I would avoid the situation at all cost and call police. Guns are for self-defense, that means someone is attacking or pursuing you. That is the way I was taught to stay out of jail.

P.

The dispatcher who is no a sworn officer and has zero legal power told him 'we don't need you to do that.'
That is not 'don't do that' or 'stop' but even if it was he broke no law in doing so.
And in fact the dispatcher asked him several other questions which could only be answered if one was following somebody.
Not even a police officer could have told him to stop.
That will not bear any part on it in my mind.

 

[m_ridgeway]

The dispatcher who is no a sworn officer and has zero legal power told him 'we don't need you to do that.'
That is not 'don't do that' or 'stop' but even if it was he broke no law in doing so.
And in fact the dispatcher asked him several other questions which could only be answered if one was following somebody.
Not even a police officer could have told him to stop.
That will not bear any part on it in my mind.

I agree with most of this, but you say a police officer cannot tell him to stop. But zimmerman who has the same authority as a dispatcher has the right to tell Martin to stop and question him?

 

[GoldenChild]

Neighborhood watch, to serve as a liason of the community with police to watch for property or personal crimes and report as such to proper authority. "They are the eyes and ears of law enforcement,". "They're not supposed to take matters into their own hands." Anytime a threat no longer exist to you or retreats, the threat is no longer imminent unless your a SWORN OFFICER OF THE LAW chasing a felon that is dangerous to the public at large..... He should have reported he lost visual of him and moved along..

His authority ended when he called. He is going to jail point blank period. His intention was to see for himself what this kid was really up too. He could have done what you said without his gun, trayvon was no threat to him or anyone else, when he took action to get out that vehicle. This would be like me walking into the mall with a bat, and there are no sports stores in the mall. Do I have the right to have a bat, cause I want too or if confronted and I hit someone with it and kill them was I defending myself? I know when I walk in with the bat what my intentions are, but do you?

The dispatcher who is no a sworn officer and has zero legal power told him 'we don't need you to do that.'
That is not 'don't do that' or 'stop' but even if it was he broke no law in doing so.
And in fact the dispatcher asked him several other questions which could only be answered if one was following somebody.
Not even a police officer could have told him to stop.
That will not bear any part on it in my mind.

 

[Sous]

I don't buy the "innocent people don't run" BS either...I'd run if someone came up to me in the dark, and I guess by doing that act of self-preservation, I'd be shot and killed for "suspicious activity"

Come on, I think this is a bit overboard. You are right, sometimes innocent people do run out of fear, but by assuming that whoever was following you is going to shoot you in the back is ridiculous.

As a matter of fact, I bet that if Martin had just ran and continued to run he would still be alive today. There was a fight that took place, no doubt about that, but who was the aggressor in the fight (not the confrontation or dialogue between the two) is only known by 2 people, and only 1 of them is still alive. Of course I was not there, so I am no expert on the subject.

 

[m_ridgeway]

As a gun owner myself, and one who conceal-carries, I would NEVER pursue a bad, or even a questionable situation, I would avoid the situation at all cost and call police. Guns are for self-defense, that means someone is attacking or pursuing you. That is the way I was taught to stay out of jail.

P.

Exactly

 

[GoldenChild]

The funny thing is innocent people don't take off running, watch this. You are one of 500 people in a crowd, a fight breaks out and you see guns and knives. you know noone there, you have no protection, Do you stand there or run? Let's see your answer folks? Remember innocent people don't run, common sense is better than book sense

Okay,let's see who post they would stand there????

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Goldenchild why do you keep making up fantasy scenarios which have zero correlation to the matter at hand?
Would your bat be concealed? Zimmermans gun was so again your example is pointless.
Your right Trayvon was not a threat to Zimmerman when he exited the vehicle. It was after words were exchanged that Trayvon followed him back to his truck and attacked him. Was he a threat to Zimmerman then? Absolutely. Why do want to continue to ignore the facts and come up with fantasy comparisons with zero connection to the case?

 

[GoldenChild]

It's more than a correlation that's no different, what your missing is the point of the situation. You wouldn't have a answer here if you didn't post, it was your choice, and so was it his to not respond.... take the blinders off...you never answered my first questions when I first posted. So what makes you different from trayvon, in respectfully answering my questions? NOTHING BUT THE NEXT BREATH YOU TAKE..

Goldenchild why do you keep making up fantasy scenarios which have zero correlation to the matter at hand?
Would your bat be concealed? Zimmermans gun was so again your example is pointless.
Your right Trayvon was not a threat to Zimmerman when he exited the vehicle. It was after words were exchanged that Trayvon followed him back to his truck and attacked him. Was he a threat to Zimmerman then? Absolutely. Why do want to continue to ignore the facts and come up with fantasy comparisons with zero connection to the case?

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Diff is I would have answered his questions and explained to him that I was walking home. Then both of us would have gone home. But that didn't happen because Trayvon decided to escalate it by attacking him. You're right Trayvon didn't have to answer questions for anyone but he also didn't have to become the aggressor and attack Zimmerman. He could have gone home that night. Zimmerman did not attempt to detain him, he wasn't trying to hold the kid at gunpoint nor was he threatening him. He simply wanted to ascertain the reason why Trayvon was there. Nothing wrong with that either. The kid turned it into a physical situation not Zimmerman.

 

[VaBusa]

Come on, I think this is a bit overboard. You are right, sometimes innocent people do run out of fear, but by assuming that whoever was following you is going to shoot you in the back is ridiculous.

As a matter of fact, I bet that if Martin had just ran and continued to run he would still be alive today. There was a fight that took place, no doubt about that, but who was the aggressor in the fight (not the confrontation or dialogue between the two) is only known by 2 people, and only 1 of them is still alive. Of course I was not there, so I am no expert on the subject.

My statement was a direct reply to someone saying "innocent people don't run" and I'm saying with certainty that some would...

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[VaBusa]

Diff is I would have answered his questions and explained to him that I was walking home. Then both of us would have gone home. But that didn't happen because Trayvon decided to escalate it by attacking him. You're right Trayvon didn't have to answer questions for anyone but he also didn't have to become the aggressor and attack Zimmerman. He could have gone home that night. Zimmerman did not attempt to detain him, he wasn't trying to hold the kid at gunpoint nor was he threatening him. He simply wanted to ascertain the reason why Trayvon was there. Nothing wrong with that either. The kid turned it into a physical situation not Zimmerman.

It's funny Blanca, that you chastise many here for making assumptions and not sticking to facts, yet you do the very same thing continually...so you know for a fact Zimmerman didn't try to detain him, or held him at gunpoint? If you're going to go after others for not sticking to the facts and making this all more opinion than anything, perhaps you should do the same...

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