Zimmerman wouldn't be dead, he would have just had a worst whipped ass.
Maybe. My point was more about questioning Brett's consistency between this thread and the other one on gun control that he is so passionate about.
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Maybe. My point was more about questioning Brett's consistency between this thread and the other one on gun control that he is so passionate about.
It's called trolling
GNBRETT
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you sound like I am turning it into a race issue. my girlfriend is pretty dam dark and black so I dont wear that hat.
white, black, spanish....watever a young kid wearing a hoodie who takes off from the neighborhood watch captain is gonna appear suspicious. and yes he was a little punk imo. him being dead has nothing to do with that nor him being black would have nothn to do with that. plenty of white punks out there to. this punk just happened to be black.
if you were walking in my neighborhood wearing a hoodie and I asked who you were and you began running then yes I wud give chase as the neighborhood watch captain and yes you wud appear suspicious. innocent people dont run. would you run if you were innocent? I doubt it.
coreywiley
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All this could've been avoided if Zimmerman would've listened to the operator when they told him to stand down,but since he was carrying he probably thought he was mister billy bad butt and followed anyway. The guy is guilty and though he probably shouldn't spend life in jail he don't deserve to go free.
head hits cement...1...head hits cement .2?...do you start thinking...gosh...is my head going to split open...will i loose consciousness...will he stop..what will he do to me when im unconscious...im AFRAID!!!....head hits cement 3? .......so at what point is your stupidity to confront now an OBLIGATION TO SACRIFICE YOUR LIFE???....i say not guilty...and shame on rest of you. cane killed able with a freakn rock......what exactly is cement?????? and why WOULD YOU NOT FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE IF THAT IS HAPPENING???....
So at what point do you lose responsibility for being the aggressor and inserting yourself into the situation? After you get your ass kicked? Then your a victim? If every time I got a bloody nose or cut on my head from fighting I killed the other person or to the opposite I would be dead among many others.
Also to those that say he shouldve followed the 911 operator while he should've listened to a 911 operator, they are only advising, nobody is compelled by law to follow their direction.
So zimmerman has the right to stand his ground from an "attacker" yet Martin does not when being pursued by an unkown man in a ford ranger?
Chris, I am usually in line with your thoughts on most things, but this time around you are neglecting to acknowledge that had Zimmerman done what he was told by 911 and stayed put, he would not have injected himself in to this situation to begin with...he was wrong in pursuing Martin and HE and he alone created the situation, not the kid just walking through the neighborhood. Had the kid been abusing someone, or destroying property, actively doing *something* to warrant being approached, I'd feel differently, but by all accounts thus far, he was just walking through the wrong place at the wrong time, and because he was wearing a hoodie, he's somehow guilty of *something*? Nearly every kid I know wears hoodies, even my own kids. I sure as hell hope no one ever pursues them because of they way they look or the simple fact that they're walking through a neighborhood at night.
If anyone approached me like Zimmerman did, I would have likely run too...has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, it has to do with self-preservation and Martin had every right to run and/or defend himself against someone that chased HIM.
Why is it that so many can't see what Zimmerman did as being the only catalyst to why Martin is now dead??
1busa
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Its just so funny to me how certain people on here are such hypocrites.......... They preach GUNS GUNS GUNS and amendment this and right to bear that but yet that kid didn't have the right to walk in a neighborhood with a hoodie? He didn't have the right to ignore a person who is barking commands at him to stop and get over here WHO HAD NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER!!! Zimmerman was neighborhood watch........... not a Police officer, not a Mall cop, hell not even a parking lot security attendant so he had no right nor authority to stop that kid detain him or question him at all> His sole purpose was exactly what is in the description of the name..... "Neighborhood WATCH" Nothing more nothing less 
You wanna be Johnny Badazz and run up on a kid in an aggressive manner barking out commands then get in over your head and pull a punk move and pull a gun. He's a coward and deserves to die a cowards death. You forget he was a Lard Azz when the situation went down.... he starved himself and went all anorexic after the fact to appear frail and weak to appeal for sympathy. Like Vabs mentioned she would've ran too had a man pursued her in the dead of night in an aggressive manner..... Innocent people do run!!! its called fear 
and it goes back to the primal instinct of Fight or Flight The kid tried to run initially and Lard Azz gave pursuit so then when he backed him in a corner he fought back and he's an idiot for that? He deserved to lose his life because of an overzealous wanna be cowboy who starts a fist fight but finishes it bye pulling a trigger? Punk Move in my book 
You wanna be Johnny Badazz and run up on a kid in an aggressive manner barking out commands then get in over your head and pull a punk move and pull a gun. He's a coward and deserves to die a cowards death. You forget he was a Lard Azz when the situation went down.... he starved himself and went all anorexic after the fact to appear frail and weak to appeal for sympathy. Like Vabs mentioned she would've ran too had a man pursued her in the dead of night in an aggressive manner..... Innocent people do run!!! its called fear and it goes back to the primal instinct of Fight or Flight The kid tried to run initially and Lard Azz gave pursuit so then when he backed him in a corner he fought back and he's an idiot for that? He deserved to lose his life because of an overzealous wanna be cowboy who starts a fist fight but finishes it bye pulling a trigger? Punk Move in my book 
everyone takes a position and then goes to any length to defend it. This is pure comedy. Unfortunately a young man died. This month a local group of young men decided to fight over a girl, the fight didn't go well for one party ( I think that's typical, in real life someone wins and someone loses, not everyone gets a trophy ) . So the parties met again, but this time firearms were involved and two were injured while a third died. I'll bet that no one here was aware of this event ......
You guys enjoy the debate, but i feel it would be better if you were presented with a set of facts about an incident and then debated the subject. I haven't kept up with this, but I don't think we have a lot of information ( fact ). Remember the media doesn't always print facts or all the facts.
Its just so funny to me how certain people on here are such hypocrites.......... They preach GUNS GUNS GUNS and amendment this and right to bear that but yet that kid didn't have the right to walk in a neighborhood with a hoodie? He didn't have the right to ignore a person who is barking commands at him to stop and get over here WHO HAD NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER!!! Zimmerman was neighborhood watch........... not a Police officer, not a Mall cop, hell not even a parking lot security attendant so he had no right nor authority to stop that kid detain him or question him at all> His sole purpose was exactly what is in the description of the name..... "Neighborhood WATCH" Nothing more nothing less
You have made some statements above that are fully conjecture, not FACT. We DO know that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operators instructions to sit in the car and wait (NOT in and of itself a murder conviction), and we DO know that some form of physical altercation happened afterwards, and we DO know that Martin was shot and killed. And we know those facts are tragic. END OF FACTS:
BEGINNING OF CONJECTURE:
What we DO NOT KNOW (and may never) is who started the actual physical altercation (did Zimmerman grab Martin, or did Martin jump on Zimmerman?), we do NOT KNOW when the gun came out ("FREEZE MISTER" or after Martin is pounding Zimmerman's head repeatedly into the concrete - i.e. could Martin have disengaged?). The answers to those questions above, IMHO, are the difference between a Murder conviction or not.
Some of this we are never going to know unless witness statements, physical evidence and/or video is presented. So, for you to want to convict NOW without presentation of that evidence shows YOUR predisposition to assume Zimmerman is guilty. In a jury trial - or should I say a jury trial without all the high visibility racist charges and TV saturation - the jury cannot find him guilty if there is any reasonable doubt - the justice system has always been PURPOSEFULLY skewed towards the defendant (look at MAJ Nadal Hassan for example), and why should it be any different in this situation? Because Racism is such a sore subject, that's why. Don't make the trial a trail on racism as that means no justice for anyone.
Vabs: You are correct. None of this would have happened if Zimmerman had stayed in the car. Just as it would have never happened if Martin had chose a different route home. But that's still not a worthy of a conviction in and of itself, because you don't know exactly what happened afterwards. If Zimmerman made a verbal confrontation with Martin, and MARTIN instigated the fistfight and was beating Zimmerman's head into the concrete, and Zimmerman, THEN fearing for his life THEN pulled the gun and shot Martin, would you still be so quick to pass judgement?
All I want is a FAIR trail. Color of the parties should NOT matter, but because of all the media attention stirred up, it does. How does Zimmerman get a fair trial? How would Martin if it had gone the other way and Zimmerman died instead?
1busa
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Well skydyvr I have mentioned before that there isn't a lot of facts actually known and people are taking what Zimmerman says as gospel and the Gods honest truth which I don't. I believe there is 2 sides to this story and 1 of the individuals is no longer here on this earth to present his side. Facts are yes he was told to keep his Fat azz in the truck and he didn't. He admitted himself on national tv that there was a scuffle between the 2 which means he had to physically come within arms distance of that kid to happen...... that is also a fact. So you run up on somebody in the dead of night and come with arms reach which is basically a persons physical space and "something" happens. As to the exact details we may never know but we can all unanimously agree that something happened. Who's at fault here? If he would've stayed in the vehicle like he was told none of this would have happened, that is also a fact. I never said he was a flat out murderer but just like a person who gets drunk and runs over a kid crossing the street whether you meant to do it or not you still need to be held accountable for your actions. Do people rush to the defense of a drunk and question why that kid was in the middle of the street? No they don't! So why is this kid being scrutinized for walking down a street when a Trigger happy cowboy is looking to be a hero?
The real problem I have is Trevon was walking in the opposite direction of Zimmerman. You have the right to walk in any neighborhood, anytime of the day or night with or without a hoodie. What made him stand out? What was he doing to make someone have to make contact with him? Can I not walk down the sidewalk with a hoodie on and not have to be harrassed for it? The fact is trevon was minding his business, walking away from zimmerman on his way home, not bothering a soul or committing no crime. His path was intervened why? He was stopped why? What was he doing to cause suspicion? Walking thru a neighborhood he didn't live in, is that a violation of law to cause contact? He was in his dad's girl neighborhood,so he did belong there...Zimmerman wasn't even on watch when the shooting happened, so why not report it and move on? When you see a drunk driver you don't follow him till cops come. when a drug deal goes down you don't intervene or follow one of them till cops show. what makes a kid in a new neighborhood walking around looking at house suspicious? Go from your area you live in to hollywood and wear a hoodie walking around looking at $20 million dollar houses. Are you suspect for it, or are you in a area your new too and just want to see what's around?? Take your blinders off. It may not be murder cause when he got out the car, his intention wasn't to kill anyone. He got out the car knowing that the situation could evolve, cause that's in security training books, so Manslaughter will be the charge and he'll get 7-10 years and everyone moves on..
Keith, come on man...you're actually going to compare what Zimmerman did by actively pursuing someone to this kid walking through a neighborhood?? Apples and oranges. One was minding his own business while walking through a neighborhood (OK in America as far as I know) and the other was not minding his own business, nor was he actively defending someone against anything this kid was doing wrong. In the very least, Zimmerman made a ton of assumptions based on whatever you'd like to call it - race, the way he was dressed, that he didn't know him, who knows? All I know is Zimmerman had no right to do what he did by even approaching Martin while armed.
Furthermore, you're providing a bit of conjecture yourself Keith, wondering if Martin beat Zimmerman's head in to the pavement and if so, Zimmerman was right to defend himself? That's quite a stretch too, especially when Martin isn't here to tell us his side. We all read in to this what we want. You're right, none of us know. Damn guy should have just minded his own business and let the cops handle it all, but he didn't. IMHO, he killed someone that HE approached that was not doing anything more than passing through the neighborhood, and for that and that alone, Zimmerman should pay a price to society.
I agree, anyone should be entitled to a fair trial, and I'll be the first to admit I could not sit on that jury and be impartial. Good luck finding that group. If things had turned out differently and Martin were the one on trial, we'd all be having the same exact discussions and the same issues would be at play while trying to pick a jury...
mysql
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You guys aware of:
1. The videos on Trayvon's cell phone where he's beating up homeless men?
2. Trayvon's MMA training?
3. Trayvon's drug use - the skittles he was buying was used to make the drugs taste better.
4. Trayvon's bragging about drug use online
5. The drugs Trayvon was using causes behavior problems, including increased aggression.
"Florida judge ruled that George Zimmerman’s defense team cannot use the late Trayvon Martin’s alleged prior marijuana use, school suspension, past fighting, personal text messages or pictures during its opening statement in next month’s high-profile second-degree murder trial."
Martin talks about organized fighting. “He got mo hits cause in da 1st round. He had me on da ground nd I couldn’t do ntn,†reads one text from November 2011.
O’Mara also informed the court that his team had obtained video of three fights, two of which include Martin acting as referee. “There is certainly enough evidence,†he told the judge, “that’s going to suggest Trayvon Martin involved himself ongoingly with fighting with other people.â€
1. The videos on Trayvon's cell phone where he's beating up homeless men?
2. Trayvon's MMA training?
3. Trayvon's drug use - the skittles he was buying was used to make the drugs taste better.
4. Trayvon's bragging about drug use online
5. The drugs Trayvon was using causes behavior problems, including increased aggression.
"Florida judge ruled that George Zimmerman’s defense team cannot use the late Trayvon Martin’s alleged prior marijuana use, school suspension, past fighting, personal text messages or pictures during its opening statement in next month’s high-profile second-degree murder trial."
Martin talks about organized fighting. “He got mo hits cause in da 1st round. He had me on da ground nd I couldn’t do ntn,†reads one text from November 2011.
O’Mara also informed the court that his team had obtained video of three fights, two of which include Martin acting as referee. “There is certainly enough evidence,†he told the judge, “that’s going to suggest Trayvon Martin involved himself ongoingly with fighting with other people.â€
Yep, my 'description' of the incident was ENTIRELY conjecture; but it was to prove a point that, until the facts come out in court, just because Zimmerman DID get out and confront Martin is not, in and of itself, a murder conviction. Zimmerman MAY be guilty of murder, but it needs to take a court, a jury, and the facts (without all the media hype) to get to the truth (and I'm afraid that's not going to happen). I don't think Zim should have confronted him either.
I also don't think it's right to put one person's past up in court, but not the other persons....
1busa
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If this is the criteria to be justifiably shot dead in the street then we wouldn't have any teenagers.......... People need to get off their high horse and take a look in the mirror
How many of you gotten into fights in high school? Snuck out late, underage drank or smoked a joint? That is what teenagers do!!! They experiment, they make mistakes, and hopefully most will learn from them and grow into decent human beings like the Majority of us and the rest of the country did. Your always gonna have bad apples in a bunch but who are you to sit back and say oh its cool that kid died cause he was wearing a hoodie and smoked weed? You wanna emphasize some text messages as to why Zimmerman was justified to shoot this kid dead in the street cause he smoked weed and was a wanna be MMA fan. What teen isnt? Im just amazed at some of the comments on here and I wonder if some of you would be so adamant if it was your picture perfect do no wrong child or family member that was in Treyvons place 
Cappo
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Are people completely missing the fact that a 17yr old boy who was minding his own business and doing nothing illegal (and probably hasn't done anything more than any one of us at 17 years old has done) has lost his life. **** law...where is the morality in this or logic? If Zimmerman didn't want his arse whooped he shouldn't have approached this young man. And since when does a simple arse whooping warrant a gunshot to the chest? Really? It's a sad day in the America when we have people defending a man who killed a 17 yr old and are trying to make logic out of the apparently illogical. SAD DAY! :angry: This country is going to hell in a handbasket and from what I've read, Obama isn't single-handedly sending us there.
Cappo
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I hear a lot of speculation going on right now........ I guess certain people must have intimate knowledge that that rest of the world doesn't have ??? Is there a video that you've seen how the events unfolded? Perhaps you lived near the scene and poked your head out the window and seene the play by play? There is only 2 people who know exactly what was said and who initiated what and 1 of them is dead.......... I don't know Zimmerman but from what Ive seen and the multiple interviews that he's given and the times he's put his foot in his own mouth I don't believe he's being entirely truthful about the situation. I know that's speculation on my part but just because He says 1 thing does not mean its gospel and the whole world should take it as such. I don't know the actual FACTS surrounding what transpired and neither does anybody else besides Zimmerman seeing how the other person involved can no longer speak about it. FACTS are he wasn't in somebody's garage or running out of somebody's yard so these vague scenarios are irrelevant to the events that actually happened. Zimmerman is and was never a Law Enforcement officer............ that is also a FACT. Don't know about your local neighborhood watch but around where I'm from that's all that they are allowed to do is just WATCH Not intervene or apprehend merely observe and report any suspicious activity to the Proper Authorities and let the actual Professionals do the jobs that they are trained to do and handle on a daily basis. Zimmerman did not do that............FACT. He wanted to be a hero and play John Wayne which got him in over his head in a situation he had no business being in. Was he observing Treyvon Martin breaking into a house? Attempting to rape, rob, or kill another human being? Was somebody's life in jeopardy and he was forced to take action? No..........that is also a FACT. So lets not convolute what happened with what coulda shoulda wouldas...... Whether you wanna call it murder or manslaughter a 17 year old boy regardless of height or weight or race has lost his life unnecessarily and somebody needs to be held accountable
You couldn't have said it better.
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