Not every car oil is good. It's all about the wet clutch. Some bikes can't handle car oil at all so this is why motorcycle oil exists and is recommended. Used to be Mobil-1 car oil worked great in a Busa but then they changed something and clutches started burning up. Lots of people reported this. The Busa clutch is pretty robust so it gets by with many car oils. With Mobil-1 the clutch was easier to modulate leaving the line at the drag strip so I ran it for years. I switched to different car oils others were having success with when Mobil-1 no longer worked. The Brad Penn and Valvoline VR1 are both high zinc oils which I like but the Valvoline is reported to keep the viscosity better. The bearings and rings in the motorcycle engine have the same needs as those in a car engine and the Busa clutch handles the car oils so I don't see the value in the motorcycle specific oils.
Motorcycle oil comparison
- Thread starter JET-A
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RedBull
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I really don't want to get into this conversation... but folks,
Let's start with the word "synthetic" as it pertains to motor oil. The vast majority of the name brand synthetic oils are API Group III. This means it's "synthetic" because of smoke and mirrors; or the amount of money that big oil companies paid to lobbyist to get the laws changed. There is nothing synthetic about it.
API Group IV and V are "true" synthetic. While API Group III oils may, when they are new with 0 miles, perform similar to Group IV, V...as soon as they are heat cycled a few times end up performing as well as most conventional oils (Group II).
The only thing that is a worse lie, is the term "semi-synthetic". This literally means that you can take a Group II oil and add 1 eye dropper to a 55 gallon barrel and call it "semi-synthetic".
Let's start with the word "synthetic" as it pertains to motor oil. The vast majority of the name brand synthetic oils are API Group III. This means it's "synthetic" because of smoke and mirrors; or the amount of money that big oil companies paid to lobbyist to get the laws changed. There is nothing synthetic about it.
API Group IV and V are "true" synthetic. While API Group III oils may, when they are new with 0 miles, perform similar to Group IV, V...as soon as they are heat cycled a few times end up performing as well as most conventional oils (Group II).
The only thing that is a worse lie, is the term "semi-synthetic". This literally means that you can take a Group II oil and add 1 eye dropper to a 55 gallon barrel and call it "semi-synthetic".
But is a group 4 oil really better for every application …..
https://lubeng.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/is-your-engine-oil-really-synthetic/
But is Group 5 automatically better? Read the link I included. Sure, it may be better at oxidation resistance but if I'm draining it frequently that isn't a player.
I'm not an oil expert, but one thing I am sure of is I can find multiple oil experts with opposing "facts", "tests" and "conclusions". Bench tests might be interesting, but I'll listen to the guys making 600+ hp on the track and see what works for them.
I'm not an oil expert, but one thing I am sure of is I can find multiple oil experts with opposing "facts", "tests" and "conclusions". Bench tests might be interesting, but I'll listen to the guys making 600+ hp on the track and see what works for them.
ali123
Banned
its held to the highest standards......…
ali123
Banned
guys at the track could use DINO oil.... its changed alllllll the time.... I got a 600 hp bike.... builder runs redline in it...…
But what standards? Best is only defined after you know what the objective is. The standards may or may not be appropriate.
Guys at the track make more than 600 hp and monitor everything, and they run them hard. I'm confident I can find two top notch builders that will disagree on oil, and two oil experts that disagree on oil. All those folks are very competent in their field. Everyone just has to go with what they believe will work.
Hayabusa Wannabe
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For those who have not, I suggest that you read the entirety of 540 Rat's blog:
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
ali123
Banned
ddennis… those making that much power regulary go into those motors regularly... whether its for rings... bearings... whatever.... at thoise power levels those motors don't last 20K miles........ they are refreshed
Yes, I'm well aware. That doesn't mean their oil doesn't matter. It matters a lot. One oil may be judged good because it lasts a long time before oxidation, but that may not be the most important consideration for every application. If you read the blog I linked to they suggest there are other considerations. If you read the blog Wannabe linked to you'll see he recommends car oil for motorcycles. It is not clear to me that a group 5 synthetic is automatically better than a group 3 … depends on what is important to the application. Redline 10-40 may well be a good oil for our applications, and the stuff I use as well could be.
I’m a believer that Amsoil is in the better/best category based solely on actual experience in several wet clutch bikes over several hundred thousand miles. However, I’ve never heard of a catastrophic oil related engine failure on any motorcycle when the oil level was good and the filter was clean no matter what oil was used.
ali123
Banned
absolutely... in the 60-80s they had very high HP bikes and cars.... without our current motorcycle oil technology and those vehicles survived.... best idea is to change it often... as long as the oil is safe for our clutches..... we should be good to go..
I agree for the normal rider. For those pushing the edge I believe there is a difference, maybe not catastrophic but in longevity. I don't know what is best. The blog Wannabe linked suggested Amsoil is a good choice.
michael parris heuberger
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Hi. well I had a ZX 11 A 1992 it had 1300 cc kit and NOS I was using Amsoil 20/50. It spit # 3 rod out the front of the motor at about 190 MPH I can not say it was the oils fault but it did happen I also lost a roller bearing crank in a Suzuki GS1100ES that I raced in A stock. I used Amsoil 20/50. But it was after I sold it so I do not know what he did it was fine when I was racing. In 1983 I bought the bike from a salvage yard for $900.00 it had a little over 600 miles on it. I fixed it minor damage mostly paint and cracked front fender It was only .09 sec off the record. I put in the Amsoil 20/50 to see if it go quicker it did not. So I road it for a while and sold it. I think I had 6 or 7 GS 1100 that year.
michael parris heuberger
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I am not putting Amsoil down I have used it in my class 8 trucks for 100.000 plus miles with no issues its a great oil. I just had no luck in the bikes. I do not know if it was the oils fault on bad bearing in the GS the ZX 1100 are known for bad #3 rod bearings but I modify it with high pressure oil pump and the kit to supply more oil to the #3 rod. Thats just what happened to me.
I run maple syrup in mine. To get the viscosity correct, I put it on the stove and heat it up adding flower until it looks about right. Never had a failure, and the bike smells like pancakes when I head out in the morning.
Not really, Mobil 1 motorcycle full synthetic. Change it at 3K miles or after a track day.
Not really, Mobil 1 motorcycle full synthetic. Change it at 3K miles or after a track day.
RedBull
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