Lets see how many agree

[bacharles]

So, a couple of parents pack their kids up and go on a trip to Lebanon and while they are there battles begin. Now the family is on the front page of CNN with signs that read "Where are you America" "Please get us out" in my opinion the signs should read "My parents are ignorant and made a bad decision please do the best you can to get us out of here" These folks purposly went into Lebanon (obviously understanding he history of conflicts) and now they crying for the government to save them..... Am I completely wrong or missing something but what happenned to personal accountability? It's not like they were in Florida and a battle broke out....

Help me understand!!!!

Link to article

You know Capt. I was watching the families on CNN this afternoon when I got off from work this afternoon. And I was thinking the EXACT same thing that you were. After all, this is not like evacuating hurricane victims from New Orleans.

 

[05 Busa LE]

The U.S. Department of State publishes warnings and advisories about traveling abroad. Check it out at "travel.state.gov/travel/warnings.html."

 

[steelhead]

Hope their children are safe.



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[SPEEDEMON]

I think everyone has to slow down and just think for a min here...

Ok now that that’s done.

I just came back from Israel on Fri. when I left the fighting had already started but where I was, a few hours from the fighting, no one cared or even noticed, my wife ad I had no idea anything had happened in north Israel until we looked at cnn, who obviously were making a huge deal about it.
btw the country of Israel is smaller than my home state of NJ...my point being in a large country, like Lebanon, even if there is war going on it doesn’t mean you are in any danger of being there, I am not saying go to the battle field, but like I said I was only max 2 hours from the war where I was and it was impossible to know anything was happening.
now lets say while I was in Israel I got caught in the middle of the battle bec my wife and I wanted to go skiing in the mountains in the north, and we got stuck in the bombing, hells yeah would I want someone to come get me outta there, but don’t say its my fault for being there and you should just leave me....
For ppl who have never been to these parts of the world you can’t possibly say well just go somewhere else on vacation...it’s totally diff, I guarantee if you go you will understand how beautiful its is there in a diff way than your used to.

Even a year ago when I was there a few nights we heard shells going off, no one even battered an eyelid, its just a diff way of life there, when you are there you don’t feel ay sense of danger like the news wants you to feel herein the states, trust me the news make it a big deal so you watch and they make more money...

who knows why those ppl went to Lebanon, maybe a loved one was dying and it was the last time to see them and when they made the plans nothing was going on, its not in their controll that a war broke out....give em a break!

just my 2 cents...

You have to analyze the risk.. Going 180 on your bike is fun as hell and there are some great stories that come out of going that fast but the repercussions of crashing are not forgiving. You know the risk of going that fast on a public highway, what will happen to your body when you hit a pole or skid across the asphalt..

Going to a foreign country that has been riddled with violence for hundreds of years should be the first red flag. Having  groups in each that publicaly condemn the other and openly speak of violence and claim responsibility for killing the other is flag 2.

Thinking that you are not noticed or being watched is the first sign of ignorant bliss. You may not have experienced any negative treatment but don't think for a second that you didnt walk past someone who would harm you if they new who you were...

Taking all this information and putting it together and then telling yourself that you still want to go is absurd. But hey lets pack the kids up and take em along........ It may be a beautiful country but is it worth dieing to visit? OR is it worth even a 1% chance that something might happen and your kids could be harmed? Would you think of taking your 5 year old on a Busa at 180 MPH, of course not you have more control of that situation than you do of a war in another country....

if your gonna look at "whats the chances of it happening" which is what your saying i gather when you say " OR is it worth even a 1% chance that something might happen and your kids could be harmed? "
how about this, dont let them drive in a car anymore...
life is about taking risks, if i knew in advance that where i was going there would be a war no i wouldnt go there, but there is no way to tell for sure.
you know every time you get in a car with your kids that you have a very good chance( 1 in ~18,500) of dieing...but you still do it everyday.

i just think its kind of harsh to say well its there fualt for going there...ok maybe it wasnt the best choice, but we had better do eveything in our power to get the the hell out!

 

[captain]

I think everyone has to slow down and just think for a min here...

Ok now that that’s done.

I just came back from Israel on Fri. when I left the fighting had already started but where I was, a few hours from the fighting, no one cared or even noticed, my wife ad I had no idea anything had happened in north Israel until we looked at cnn, who obviously were making a huge deal about it.
btw the country of Israel is smaller than my home state of NJ...my point being in a large country, like Lebanon, even if there is war going on it doesn’t mean you are in any danger of being there, I am not saying go to the battle field, but like I said I was only max 2 hours from the war where I was and it was impossible to know anything was happening.
now lets say while I was in Israel I got caught in the middle of the battle bec my wife and I wanted to go skiing in the mountains in the north, and we got stuck in the bombing, hells yeah would I want someone to come get me outta there, but don’t say its my fault for being there and you should just leave me....
For ppl who have never been to these parts of the world you can’t possibly say well just go somewhere else on vacation...it’s totally diff, I guarantee if you go you will understand how beautiful its is there in a diff way than your used to.

Even a year ago when I was there a few nights we heard shells going off, no one even battered an eyelid, its just a diff way of life there, when you are there you don’t feel ay sense of danger like the news wants you to feel herein the states, trust me the news make it a big deal so you watch and they make more money...

who knows why those ppl went to Lebanon, maybe a loved one was dying and it was the last time to see them and when they made the plans nothing was going on, its not in their controll that a war broke out....give em a break!

just my 2 cents...

You have to analyze the risk.. Going 180 on your bike is fun as hell and there are some great stories that come out of going that fast but the repercussions of crashing are not forgiving. You know the risk of going that fast on a public highway, what will happen to your body when you hit a pole or skid across the asphalt..

Going to a foreign country that has been riddled with violence for hundreds of years should be the first red flag. Having  groups in each that publicaly condemn the other and openly speak of violence and claim responsibility for killing the other is flag 2.

Thinking that you are not noticed or being watched is the first sign of ignorant bliss. You may not have experienced any negative treatment but don't think for a second that you didnt walk past someone who would harm you if they new who you were...

Taking all this information and putting it together and then telling yourself that you still want to go is absurd. But hey lets pack the kids up and take em along........ It may be a beautiful country but is it worth dieing to visit? OR is it worth even a 1% chance that something might happen and your kids could be harmed? Would you think of taking your 5 year old on a Busa at 180 MPH, of course not you have more control of that situation than you do of a war in another country....

if your gonna look at "whats the chances of it happening" which is what your saying i gather when you say " OR is it worth even a 1% chance that something might happen and your kids could be harmed? "
how about this, dont let them drive in a car anymore...
life is about taking risks, if i knew in advance that where i was going there would be a war no i wouldnt go there, but there is no way to tell for sure.
you know every time you get in a car with your kids that you have a very good chance( 1 in ~18,500) of dieing...but you still do it everyday.

i just think its kind of harsh to say well its there fualt for going there...ok maybe it wasnt the best choice, but we had better do eveything in our power to get the the hell out!

1. Show me where you pulled the stat that 1 in 18,500 is going to die... I don't believe that stat so until you show me where you got it from it doesn't count.

2. Driving a car is a necessary daily activity, there are minimal risk associated with riding on the public streets. As educated adults we minimize the risk be using car seats and seat belts and not letting our kids ride in the back window like when I was a kid. We are smarter now and more informed thats why we have all the laws that mandate safety equipment. Being young and nieve is not against the law, as a matter of fact I am amazed by the stupidity of some of our fellow country men. You have to just ask yourself, "What the hell did they think would happen". The difference in the position the family on CNN is in and mine, I thought of the impact of going out of the country, apparently they didn't. You notice I'm not in a bad situation begging for help. Last time I checked we have no requirement to save stupid people from themselves when they travel to other countries. I would rather rescue them, charge them a fee for saving thier asses (kids are free they couldn't help it) and spend that money on our senior veterans and folks that are working hard and just need a hand.. I dont want to pay for stupid mistakes of others, please take my taxes and spend those dollars helping the elderly for those folks in the US... You travel outside our borders and you lose protection..

See now you have me on a completely different topic, Some people feel that its the governments job to clean up after you make mistakes. I personally believe that you need to sometimes woller in the slop to decide that you don't want to be with the pigs. If someone is trying to help themselves I will help them as much as I can, but its never the responsibility of our government.

CAP



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[BA BUSA]

I don't think they should be allowed to go over there....if they are going to go anyway, then advise them
of the risk and make them PAY the bill for any rescue mission

 

[chrisjp]

as ron white says "you cant fix stupid" but in this case you can send them to a war zone and let "life happen"

 

[Projekt]

Isn't there a US gov't. website for people to see what places they recommend not going to based on intel?

I do love me some LebaneseTabboulli though.

Yes there is.
US Department Of State Homepage

 

[Projekt]

 Never planned on going there but I hooked up w/ two girls from Canada and, well, that's another story.

I've got a few interesting stories that start out something like that. hahaha

 

[Projekt]

I still want to go to Lebanon after it all blows over. I have the luxury of my appearance being similar to many Meditteranean groups of people. Also, to be safe all you have to do is stick a maple leaf on your rucksack or hat and everybody will say, "oh, there goes one of those nice Canadians that don't meddle in world affairs".

 

[Ruben]

inI agree with you also Captain.  But don't agree with comments like these.

I think it's the same as the American civilians going to Iraq to work... or as they like to say "to help rebuild"... which is a cute way of saying they are there to reap the benefits and make huge money. The Nick Berg case is a prime example. No, he didn't "deserve" what happened... but it shouldn't come as a shock that he was captured.

Apples and oranges.  Yeah... I'm one of those working in Iraq making well into the six figures.... or should I say reaping the benefits.  Geez...  

I spent 21 years on active duty with the US Army and paid my dues serving my country.  We all come here knowing the dangers of war and terrorism.  Who are you to criticize...?  What does this have to do with that..?    If all civilians working in Iraq as contractors would leave tomorrow.... our airmen, marines, sailors and soldiers would be in a world of hurt.  You obviously don't know half of what civilians in Iraq do for our country.  So best go wash your Busa and don't be mad cuz KBR won't hire you.  

+10000 Yeah I'm one of those guys too Pan! This is no vacation over here, quite differant than the situation in Lebanon. You had better be thankful for people like Ruban and I who support the military, who gives people like you the right to say stupid things on internet forums! Look around at some of the screen names and locations on this forum and think before you type!

And maybe you should also realize that plenty of members here have served their country by serving in the military... those like ME! Not everyone talks about it so openly or has that info in their location/avatar/sig...

My statement is very true. Nothing offensive to anyone in it... but some people like you ARE READING TOO MUCH into it! All I said is that if civilians choose to work in a hot zone... they should be prepared for whatever happens. Thanks.

Pan.... it's all good...

I just really didn't agree with the reaping the benefits comments. Only thing I rebuild are helicopters for the Army. I'm not here trying to rebuild Iraq.

I am open about what I do and have done because I am proud of it. Some folks here are very open ( more open than me ) with their military info. What about it...?? Anyways... Over & Out....

Back to the subject... The U.S. should have done better helping those Americans leave even though they're dumbasses for being there. Idiots....

 

[SPEEDEMON]

1. Show me where you pulled the stat that 1 in 18,500 is going to die... I don't believe that stat so until you show me where you got it from it doesn't count.

2. Driving a car is a necessary daily activity, there are minimal risk associated with riding on the public streets. As educated adults we minimize the risk be using car seats and seat belts and not letting our kids ride in the back window like when I was a kid. We are smarter now and more informed thats why we have all the laws that mandate safety equipment. Being young and nieve is not against the law, as a matter of fact I am amazed by the stupidity of some of our fellow country men. You have to just ask yourself, "What the hell did they think would happen". The difference in the position the family on CNN is in and mine, I thought of the impact of going out of the country, apparently they didn't. You notice I'm not in a bad situation begging for help. Last time I checked we have no requirement to save stupid people from themselves when they travel to other countries. I would rather rescue them, charge them a fee for saving thier asses (kids are free they couldn't help it) and spend that money on our senior veterans and folks that are working hard and just need a hand.. I dont want to pay for stupid mistakes of others, please take my taxes and spend those dollars helping the elderly for those folks in the US... You travel outside our borders and you lose protection..

See now you have me on a completely different topic, Some people feel that its the governments job to clean up after you make mistakes. I personally believe that you need to sometimes woller in the slop to decide that you don't want to be with the pigs. If someone is trying to help themselves I will help them as much as I can, but its never the responsibility of our government.

CAP

The stat was from an article in the San Diego union tribune, the sources they gave were...
"Sources: National Safety Council; "Life: The Odds" by Gregory Baer (2003); www.tchester.org; National Survey of Family Growth; National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; FBI; "The Sizesaurus" by Stephen Strauss (1995); "What Are the Chances?" by Bernard Siskin and Jerome Staller with David Rorvik (1989); William Hill, bookmakers – London; www.fourleafclover.com; American Heart Association; American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgery; American Lung Association; American Cancer Society; National Center for Health Statistics; "The Book of Odds" by Michael D. and Robert L. Shook (1991); The Astronomical Journal."

Either way that really isn’t the point, I only mentioned it because you always take risks no matter what you do, but you still do it.

Those ppl only have themselves to blame for being in there situation, I am not arguing that.

You say driving a car is a necessary daily activity, well that’s wrong, in your mind and after you weighed the risks you decided it was...I know of ppl who have been in horrible car accidents ad have decided it’s not worth the risk to ever drive a car. It is not "necessary".

Just like you have decided that driving a car was necessary, where as some would disagree, they chose to go to a potentially hostel place ad then got in trouble.

just because more ppl drive and therefore you find it ok to spend tax dollars on making the streets safer doesn’t mean some ppl would like to be spending tax dollars on knowing that if they were stuck somewhere, out of their own stupidity, they could still rely on getting help.

I don’t know how you can say "I dont want to pay for stupid mistakes of others, please take my taxes and spend those dollars helping the elderly for those folks in the US"
So don’t pay taxes anymore!
How much tax money goes into cancer research because of ppl smoking, that’s pretty stupid if you ask me.
I could sit and list a bunch of things that your money is going into because ppl are stupid, why don’t you complain about that?

Why do US embassy’s help American citizen when they are in diff countries if "You travel outside our borders and you lose protection.. " I never heard that rule before, and I am guessing that is your opinion.

Your last paragraph sums it up "See now you have me on a completely different topic, some people feel that it’s the governments job to clean up after you make mistakes. I personally believe that you need to sometimes woller in the slop to decide that you don't want to be with the pigs. If someone is trying to help themselves I will help them as much as I can, but its never the responsibility of our government."

I can’t agree with you more, I also believe you have to take responsibility for your actions. And like you said you would help as much as possible, but you and I think diff, I actually believe it is the responsibility for our government to step in and help fix their own ppl mistakes as much as possible, and as a tax paying American you deserve that no matter how dumb you are. Like I said b4 there is already tons of government money, our taxes, going into things that is just trying to fix our dumbass mistakes and decisions.

(Btw cap, I love your site and do hope you realize I have nothing against you or your family

 

[captain]

(Btw cap, I love your site and do hope you realize I have nothing against you or your family [/QUOTE]

Man thats the greatest thing about this website, we can disagree and be mature about it. I have no ill feelings towards you at all, I like a good debate. I never claimed to have all the answers to the worlds problems, I can tell you without hesitation that I do not believe that it is our governements responsibility to go and get those folks out of Lebanon. A choice was made to go there and they went. You have to believe deep down in your heart that every single adult had to have enough information to know that the region is hostile. I think that when you slice it to its smallest piece and you don't try to over analyze the situation these folks made a horrific decision that put themselves and their children in harms way. Now !!!! We are sending AWESOME, EXTREMELY BRAVE, DEDICATED US soldiers there to get them out. The risk is now our young men and women in the military... If you do decide to break it down... What is the cost to remove a group of business folks and vacationers from there to here? The the next question, who is paying for it.... That money could have been used somewhere else.

Off Rant......

Cap

 

[Ride_or_Fish]

I hear that Beirut is nice this time of year!

 

[MPH 200]

Hey everybody give them a break ... maybe BAGHDAD was all booked up

 

[Jace]

And they were probably on some type of peace mission trying to make the wolrd a better place ..... oh wait there is a war lets all sit around and sing .... what is that sound

BOOM !!!

maybe they used one of those online travel places that said it was a nice place to go and had cool pics of the cool hotel