is Suicide a sin?

[VaBusa]

For anyone to answer that question, you have to first decide how you define, or if you even define, the word "sin". I personally do not use the word in my every day vocabulary, nor do I view most actions by humans as sinful in nature. You're either a moral person, or not...

Suicide is a sad solution for some when there is no other answer for whatever has consumed their lives. It's something most will hopefully never know, the depths of darkness most will never see, never understand. I've never thought of it as selfish, just the most sad, lonely and final act of someone that truly can't fathom any other way out of the pit they're in. I've known those that live and die there, and I've known some that have made it back alive. I've been too close in my own family to ever pass judgement on anyone that finds themselves at that edge; would not wish that on anyone...

If there is sin, it's that anyone pretends they know anything about what it's like to be that person, making that decision and feeling that alone in life... :2cents:

 

[lil charlie]

OK. I'll accept that definition since intent doesn't define sin. That doesn't change whether it is a sin or not. It also doesn't change that the Father will pass judgement on the sin. As stated before, there is not a single judgement and sentence that will be passed on to all who commit a sin.


Scenario 1: Your kids are playing in the house and one knocks your favorite mug off the table and it shatters on the floor.

Scenario 2: Your kid gets mad at you, picks up you favorite mug and throws it to the floor shattering it.

There is very different intent in each scenario, but in both scenarios, the mug is shattered. The difference is how you will judge and punish the child. A sin is a sin regardless of circumstance or intent. How you are judged and punished for the sin is up to God.

I can agree with this.

 

[Lurch]

It is 10 AM CST. I will now post my paper.
Be warned it is a long read as this was a paper for English Comp for college. It is an extended definition paper.

Enjoy and I hope it makes people thing and consider something. Anything.

 

[Lurch]

You are closer to suicide than you may know!​

By Kevin
Almost everyone or someone close to them is working towards suicide. People tend to view suicide as a long term answer to a short term problem.Being suicidal is not always a bad thing. Life’s heroic people tend to be or act in a suicidal manner. They usually do not intend on dying or consider what they were doing as suicidal. Suicide is not just a long term answer to a short term problem.​

The definition of suicidal opens doors to other possibilities.Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary defines suicidal as follows.“Dangerous especially to one’s own life or destructive to one's own interests.”Dictionary.com defines it as “pertaining to, involving, or suggesting suicide. Tending or leading to suicide. Foolishly or rashly dangerous.” Example,He drives at a suicidal speed.
Workers at the Fukushima nuclear power plant in Japan have been dubbed the “suicide squad” or “Kes****ai” which means “Unit that expects to die”. There are about 180 Japanese workers on this team. They work in teams of fifty and enter the radiation hotspots for fifteen minutes at a time to try and cool the reactor to keep it from melting down. These workers are subjecting themselves to very high doses of radiation in hopes of saving the plant from melting down and releasing large amounts of radiation into the atmosphere much like what happened in Chernobyl. Some workers have been subjected to more than 250 milisieverts of radiation. This is considered a fatal dose, and is a high price to pay for being a volunteer. By definition, this is considered suicidal. Because this job means almost certain death, older retired workers are volunteering for this work. Japanese have a great sense of pride and dedication for their country. Because of this, the older workers volunteer to save the younger workers from the risk of health hazards or death. They feel they only have 15 to 20 years left to live. They feel this is not enough time to develop cancer from the exposure. The older workers want to protect the younger guys and allow them to live their lives as well as they have. Even though this is considered a suicide mission, they are doing it for the good of the country and its people.
Three Congressional Medal of Honor recipients from the war in Iraq received their awards for covering live grenades with their own bodies and absorbing the blasts. This protected the other team members from certain death. Other examples of such acts of heroism occur during combat. Take the soldier who,in the face of enemy fire, mans a machine gun in the open to pin the enemy down to allow his fellow team members time to escape to safety. The ones who charge an enemy position with no regard for themselves to eliminate the position to protect team mates.There are helicopter pilots who fly in to the middle of a fire fight, risking being shot down to deliver needed supplies or pick up wounded warriors.Some of these pilots have died attempting these missions. Others have been gravely wounded. Another example of heroic service members are the Coast Guard’s Search and Rescue teams. These are helicopter crews who fly in to severe storms and rescue boaters who have gotten themselves in to trouble and need to be rescued. Take a boat in the Bering Strait that is sinking because it was swamped by a rogue wave in winter. Even with a survival suit on, a sailor that enters the water can only last about 20 minutes before suffering hypothermia and dying. These Coast Guard teams fly in to thestorm, risking the chance of being downed by the weather. Once on scene the rescue swimmer gears up in his survival suit and is lowered from the helicopter down to the vessel. Once on the vessel he secures a crew member to the line that just lowered him so that the crew member can be hoisted to safety aboard the helicopter. This continues until all crew members are rescued. Once that is accomplished the rescue swimmer is hoisted back aboard and the helicopter returns to the safety of its base.Think about the definition of suicidal. Does this fit the definition? All of these are examples of suicidal behavior, by definition. These acts are done without regard to one’s own safety or regard for their own life.Is what these brave folks have doneconsidered suicide and a long term solution to a short term problem? This is not an example of a coward. Since the civil war, there have been 621 medals awarded posthumously. All could be considered acts of suicide or suicidal behavior. These brave people do these acts for the betterment of our great country or the freedom of another country. These are selfless acts for the bettering of humanity and possible proof that suicidal behavior is not just a long term answer to a short term problem.
Look a little closer to home at some everyday people who exhibit suicidal behavior while doing their daily jobs. Firefighters enter burning buildings to search for and rescue people. While inside a burning building a firefighter encounters many things that could end their life in an instant. Buildings have been known to collapse without warning, killing firefighters. As a ceiling falls, so does the wiring that runs through the ceiling. This causes an entanglement hazard to the firefighter. If they get entangled and can’t free themselves they could burn to death. The floor could collapse under the weight of the debris and firefighters, sending the firefighters down a floor or more to an almost certain death. There are also specialized teams that face even greater dangers. There is the Hazardous Urban Rescue Team also known as HURT. This team responds to building collapses and other unstable situations. Their job is to stabilize the building or accident scene and conduct search and rescue missions. They place themselves in a position to be crushed or injured while doing their jobs. There are also water rescue teams that face dangerous conditions to save others from certain death.Even with these dangers, firefighters continue to do their jobs knowing that each day could be their last.
Then there are everyday people who intentionally risk their own lives to save others. A perfect example of this happened on January 13, 1982. Air Florida flight 90 took off from Washington National Airport with 79 souls on board. Shortly after take-off it crashed into the Potomac River. An unassuming passenger on board was a man named Arland D. Williams, Jr.Mr. Williamswas one of seven that survived the initial crash in to the frozen river. When a helicopter from the National Park Service arrived to rescue people, they noticed that Mr. Williams was the most alert and capable survivor. They dropped life vests and floatation devices down to Mr. Williams who then passed them on to other passengers. The helicopter crew then dropped a life line to him so he could be pulled to safety. Mr. Williams continually passed this life line to others so that they may be rescued first. When the last passenger other than Mr. Williams had been rescued, the helicopter returned to the tail section that Mr. Williams had been clinging to. As they approached him all they could do was watch in horror as the tail section shifted and sank in to the river with Mr. Williams still clinging to it. Mr. Williams drowned saving the lives of six other passengers he never knew. His body was not recovered or identified until the next day.
Another recent example of an everyday person giving their life to save others happened in Joplin, Missouri. When the tornado that destroyed Joplin was approaching, a lady ran outside from her safe location to help get six other people get to safety. She was unable to return to safety in time and was killed by the tornado. Her daughter was interviewed on the national news. She did not know what her mother had done. All she knew was that her mother had died during the tornado. While the interview was being conducted, the woman was approached by a young lady. The young lady told her she was sorry for the loss of her mother, but because of her mother’s bravery, her six family members were still alive. The young lady went on to explain how the ladies mother ran out to help her family members get to safety and how she was unable to get back inside herself.Both of these acts of bravery came without regard for one’s own life. Again this is the definition of suicidal. So being suicidal whether intentionally or unintentionally is not just a mental disorder. Sometimes people act this way for the good of others.
Not all cases of somebody being suicidal are for the good of others. Some people do commit suicide because of other reasons. Such as facing jail time, divorce, loss of a job or a number of other reasons. This is usually caused by a mental condition. Sometimes it is a long standing condition and other times it is a rapid onset brought about by factors of life.
Regardless of how a person commits suicide, whether it is saving others or just being selfish, people are left to carry the burden of the loss. These people are sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers and friends. In the case of bravery victims there are also people grateful for the ultimate sacrifice these people have given but also mourn the loss
As can be seen here, being suicidal can be a bad thing or a good thing. Others may survive because of one’s actions that caused them to lose their life. And then there are the selfish ones who take their own life because they cannot face reality. Suicide is not just the coward’s way out. Sometimes very brave people give their life so that others may survive.
Suicide is not just a long term answer to a short term problem.Next time the term suicidal or suicide comes up, reflect on this and consider how someone close may be suicidal or act in a suicidal manner.

 

[lil charlie]

The (LDS) church was standing room only for the funeral. I really have a bad taste in my mouth still for what the bishop pulled. After several people, friends and family stood up and talked, the a**ho*e bishop decided to spout his views on suicide...for 40 minutes. Half the family walked out and he still didn't get the clue that he was way out of line. Here was a church full of people that loved him and were mourning his loss (including his 14yo daughter!) regardless of how it may have transpired and this SOB has to throw it in their faces that he murdered himself. (EXACT words!) Can you imagine having to walk out of your loved ones funeral because of one closed minded bishop's views?

I’m sorry that his family and friends were subjected to that. The Bishop had no right to say that, it was neither the time nor the place.
I would like to think If I were you that I would have marched up there and told him to save his speech for Sunday, but then again is it really your place to interrupt him? I don’t know… I’m just sorry for your loss.

 

[lil charlie]

Massive condolences for your loss, Ketchmi. :down:


Of all the nutty religions in this country, that LDS cult is a Special Kind of crazy. The way this religion developed, the way it was conducted early on, and even to this day..... complete nutty cult-like insanity. But in their defense.... there hasn't been 2000 years to fake the record, cleanup the inconsistencies by forgetting them, altering them, losing them, or actually eliminating the competition.

Sorry that the bat-sh*t crazy bishop took a massive Mormon turd on your good friend. Damn......

I agree that the Bishop WAY overstepped his bounds but let’s not turn this into a religious bashing thread.

 

[GNBRETT]

I agree with this post but it brings up a whole other subject that can be the basis of the next discussion. "Assisted suicide"

well, its not really assisted. YOU have to still start the process for it to work if were referring to Dr. Kevorkian or the like. yes, he sets up the process so I guess in that way its assisted but YOU had to start the process of death. if not, then you would not die. at least thats what Dr. Kovorkian told people. if a loved one gave you a gun to kill urself because you were too ill to get one urself it to could be labeled assisted suicide but YOU would still be pulling the trigger.

helping someone end their life because the pain is so bad that ur quality of life is so bad that it hurts more each that you live is a mercy killing imo vs. assisted suicide. the whole debate is really a religious debate vs. anything else so if one is deeply religious then there is probably no changing their minds on a subject like this and there entitled to feel that way.

but that would mean that taking ones own life would be dependant on the scenerio because if someone is mentally ill when they commit suicide vs. mentally sound some would not consider it a sin because realistically how could one commit a sin if their mind was not sound. if someone is suffering from alzheimers and decided to commit suicide there would be few that would consider it a sin from a religious point of view but suicide is suicide and if one believes its a sin no matter what then there should be no exceptions.

I hardly doubt those that feel one that committed suicide while suffering from alzheimers would feel those people would now be going to hell.

 

[Lurch]

well, its not really assisted. YOU have to still start the process for it to work if were referring to Dr. Kevorkian or the like. yes, he sets up the process so I guess in that way its assisted but YOU had to start the process of death. if not, then you would not die. at least thats what Dr. Kovorkian told people. if a loved one gave you a gun to kill urself because you were too ill to get one urself it to could be labeled assisted suicide but YOU would still be pulling the trigger.

helping someone end their life because the pain is so bad that ur quality of life is so bad that it hurts more each that you live is a mercy killing imo vs. assisted suicide. the whole debate is really a religious debate vs. anything else so if one is deeply religious then there is probably no changing their minds on a subject like this and there entitled to feel that way.

but that would mean that taking ones own life would be dependant on the scenerio because if someone is mentally ill when they commit suicide vs. mentally sound some would not consider it a sin because realistically how could one commit a sin if their mind was not sound. if someone is suffering from alzheimers and decided to commit suicide there would be few that would consider it a sin from a religious point of view but suicide is suicide and if one believes its a sin no matter what then there should be no exceptions.

I hardly doubt those that feel one that committed suicide while suffering from alzheimers would feel those people would now be going to hell.

I agree with you. I prefer to call it euthanasia. Wether it is assisted as in Dr Kevorkian's way or solely done by the individual. I wpuld hope you will start the discussion when this one is over. I started this at the request of another member.

 

[GNBRETT]

ok. rgr that.

 

[Schexy1]

When I was a kid I couldn’t get a handle my surroundings and contemplated suicide several times. I don’t know how serious I was and even though I took steps towards an attempt, I never got to what would be considered dangerously close. At some point, I heard a phrase that I took to heart, “I would rather kill you than me” and my effort moved from internal to external.

As an adult I am constantly in pain sometimes to the point that I can’t function. The pain and subsequent effects started when I was a teenager. I have spent years trying to diagnose and treat my pain with no luck on either. When I was a young teen my strength, speed and stamina were on track for me becoming a world class athlete. By the time I was 20, the 13 year old version of me was faster and stronger. By the time I was 30 a good game of basketball or football left me almost unable to walk for 2 days. Now a 30 minute walk or a few hours on the Busa requires hours of recovery time. I have never done drugs or abused my body in any way other than alcohol consumption.

I have come to the conclusion that I have about 15 or so years left before most everyday activities will require great effort. At that point I will have a quality of life that will be a burden to others. My ex would get upset with me all the time because I used to say I don’t want to live past the age of 65 and at some point I will walk into the swamps never to be seen again.

I know this is getting into the next topic but what is the point of living if you can’t enjoy life? I don’t want someone to assist me with dying but I don’t want machines keeping me alive either. Like most animals in nature, I just want to be allowed to drift off into the sunset.

So would you consider me not wanting to fight to live suicide?

 

[GNBRETT]

I think for some suicide is the cowards way out. not many but some. those that are suffering from pain and off themselves imo are certainly not cowards by any stretch of the imagination.

I have had several friends from high school hang themselves in the basemant of their house. all had familes and to this day no one knows why they did it. no terminal disease, no painful ailments, no financial problems, no marital issues, no work issues, nothing obvious.

I dont understand but often I feel im not supposed to. I can only assume they were deeply depressed and no one knew it but them.

many who kill themselves in my experience at work were under the influence of alcohol or drugs so they were not in their right frame of mind. are they going to hell as a result? isnt that what this thread is about? sin right? meaning ur going to hell if you commit suicide.

 

[kitchener rider]

I dont think its wrong , i would rather take myself out than have to have my family deal with wiping my backside and cleaning snot bubbles off my face if i was seriously ill.

 

[Warchild]

many who kill themselves in my experience at work were under the influence of alcohol or drugs so they were not in their right frame of mind. are they going to hell as a result? isnt that what this thread is about? sin right? meaning ur going to hell if you commit suicide.

Good question. I am curious what the more religious of you think with regard to Brett's question above.

And while I was tongue-in-cheek about it in teasing E Zurcher‎ in his "Random Thoughts" thread... what happens to the atheist who decides to off himself? Sin? That actually begs the question: can "sin" be applied to an atheist?

 

[Schexy1]

Good question. I am curious what the more religious of you think with regard to Brett's question above.

And while I was tongue-in-cheek about it in teasing E Zurcher‎ in his "Random Thoughts" thread... what happens to the atheist who decides to off himself? Sin? That actually begs the question: can "sin" be applied to an atheist?

Sin is sin just as murder is murder, doesn't matter if you believe it is or not.

 

[Troppo]

Who cares if it is a "sin"?

I don't need a book of guilt trip fairy stories to live my life by.

Suicide is a tragedy.

 

[GSX1300R-T]

So basically you are saying Jesus committed suicide? Or did I miss the point?

No,....Jesus was murdered. The point is,......if you fully believe that Jesus died on the cross, arose 3 days later, and accept HIM as your Heavenly Father,......then IF you commit a sin like suicide,.....you will be forgiven and reside with HIM after death. If you choose NOT to believe,......then you will reside with Satan. The big point is,... after the sin is commited,...you don't get to choose,....so decide now. Something to think about!!

 

[GSX1300R-T]

Who cares if it is a "sin"?

I don't need a book of guilt trip fairy stories to live my life by.

Suicide is a tragedy.

Another good example of why Jesus went to the cross,.....to give us all Free Will. Free Will to make choices like this one,....whether is it wise or unwise.

 

[Lucid]

Sin is one of the most nonsensical ideas our species has ever come up with. What sense does it make to, no matter the vastness of our piety, no matter the innumerable good deeds, and no matter the true faith we may have in the one true God, that He still created a system in which we CANNOT NOT sin? We are born into it, via original sin? What sense does that make? A just God would judge us based on our merit, actions, and character, and not on those that came before us. But to make a loophole for a rule (original sin) which He created, He sent His son/Himself down as a sacrifice of Himself to Himself, "for the forgiveness of sins". ???

So what if one does not fully believe in the notion of original sin? Well then, a new question is posed: What is a sin? Is it the list of abominations listed in the Levitical Code? In that case, homosexuality and eating shell fish are equal sins. If suicide is a sin, then surely the early church father Ignatius of Antioch (and other early martyrs) are in hell, as he was forewarned that he could escape his impending death by Romans, but declined (quite ardently) so that he might be remembered forever as a martyr for the church.

So is suicide a sin? In a word, no.

Is it morally wrong?
Immanuel Kant would say yes, because it is logically inconsistent with our will. [to live]
Others, like Don Marquis, would say no if and only if you have absolutely no chance at future goals, aspirations, etc. (euthanasia permissible if your future is waking up in the most intense pain imaginable, Terry Shaivo (her brain had turned to mush), or similar cases.

 

[Warchild]

No,....Jesus was murdered. The point is,......if you fully believe that Jesus died on the cross, arose 3 days later, and accept HIM as your Heavenly Father,......then IF you commit a sin like suicide,.....you will be forgiven and reside with HIM after death. If you choose NOT to believe,......then you will reside with Satan.

This is a logical fallacy commonly known as "the appeal to fear", a very common faith-based threat tool (perfected by the Catholics) that has no basis in reality.

To wit: if one doesn't accept their point of view ("If you choose NOT to believe"), bad things will happen ("then you will reside with Satan").

Fear is no basis with which to accept an argument. The Catholic Church routinely engages in this fallacy by hammering the fear of god into youngsters at Sunday school and Catholic school. This becomes the driving force behind beliefs and actions, and it is a flawed one.

So basically, "if you don't accept god, you will be condemned to hell to suffer for eternity." Notice that there is no logic. No argument. No reason. No intelligence. Just bigotry and self-righteousness.

 

[busabass]

Lurch,
I look at the definition and cannot apply it to the religious belief of it being a sin or not.
We as man cannot determine what the beginning or ending of life is; this is due to the fact that as being human we look for true evidence whether its science or some form of proof.

When we look at the examples or circumstances in actions that we think may end life; we truly do not know the outcome of our actions. However we may have some historical reference that if one commits a certain act; it will result in a prescribed manner. But I say, is that the definitive result?

Therefore, can we really say that the definition of suicide is applied properly when we apply it if we cannot truly determine for sure what the outcome may be.
Great thinking question...

Wilson OUT