ah damn... this one hits home on me... dont know anyone that has done so... but uhh... ill say that i cant remember the last day that i didnt contemplate it...and im very open about my hatred of life to the point that it causes concern in some people there are even times when im out on the busa when the thought crosses my mind in hopes that a truck will take me out... at least that way id go doing something i enjoy, anyway... to the point at hand... recently in my contemplations and readings on the topic i came across a site that stated "Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain" its like trying to stand while someone places weights on your shoulders... no matter how much you want to stand, youll eventually collapse and if thats the situation then no i dont think of it as a sin, even if it is, i do believe that it can be forgiven... the whole ask and ye shall receive thing, but on the other side of that coin, can you ask for forgiveness for something that you chose to do? and that contradicts my previous statement of it not being a choice, as far as the "permanent solution to a temporary problem".... well, i can remember dealing with depression as far back as grade 4, and im 25 now so that puts it at like 17years or something... ive tried numerous antidepressants and always end up with either severe migraines or worsening suicidal thoughts, ive tried professional help, ive tried natural methods and none of them seem to help so to me, it doesnt seem like a temporary problem... not in all cases anyway and i guess that would have to be my answer to this question as well... not in all situations.... yes with an "if", no with a "but"
is Suicide a sin?
- Thread starter Lurch
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jphilipson
Registered
Great and accurate quote. And sorry to hear you're suffering. I take drugs for my anxiety and I feel 95% better most of the time. The right meds will make you feel a lot better. It is just a matter of sticking to it and finding the right Dr. who will find you the right drugs. Oh course that is not the easiest thing in the world to do when you feel the way you do. Good luck with you situation, hope you are able to pull it together and find the right solution.
Suicide is a sin. You are murdering a body that belongs to God.
The sentence for committing that sin will be determined by the Father. We do not know what the sentence for our sins are until the end. I do not believe every sin carries the same weight and that all sinners will be punished equally. That would mean that God is not loving and just.
The sentence for committing that sin will be determined by the Father. We do not know what the sentence for our sins are until the end. I do not believe every sin carries the same weight and that all sinners will be punished equally. That would mean that God is not loving and just.
newman
Registered
I've suffered from mental illness since my teens, and have attempted suicide, I won't go in to details but am very lucky to be alive.
All I can say is I was in despair, and at the time I just wanted to be in peace. I'm very glad now that it didn't work, as my life is good now, I'm 55.
Two of my friends have committed suicide in the last five years, and I just wish they had talked to me about how they were feeling so maybe I could have helped them. It upset me a lot.
No I don't think it is a sin myself.
Unless you have been in the position of trying to kill yourself you, don't know what it feels like to have such feelings of despair, that you want to end it all.
Lets all hope know one ever gets to this point in life.
Malicious I feel for you but don't give up, I know it can grind you down, but things can get better.
Best wishes.
Love Dave.
All I can say is I was in despair, and at the time I just wanted to be in peace. I'm very glad now that it didn't work, as my life is good now, I'm 55.
Two of my friends have committed suicide in the last five years, and I just wish they had talked to me about how they were feeling so maybe I could have helped them. It upset me a lot.
No I don't think it is a sin myself.
Unless you have been in the position of trying to kill yourself you, don't know what it feels like to have such feelings of despair, that you want to end it all.
Lets all hope know one ever gets to this point in life.
Malicious I feel for you but don't give up, I know it can grind you down, but things can get better.
Best wishes.
Love Dave.
lil charlie
Registered
I am going to have to disagree with you on this on BusaWhipped. I am not very religious but I do believe that there is a god and that he gave me my precious life. That said, it was just that…a gift, for me and me alone. No part of me belongs to God not my body, and not my soul. Murdering a body that belongs to me…yes. It’s my life and I will do with it as I see fit. I believe that once God give you life he stays out of it until you pass. I do not believe in divine intervention, if there were such a thing we would not have all the bad crap in this world.
Is suicide as sin??? I would have to say no. As per the definition listed in post #1 suicide is defined as anyone who willing or knowingly does something that causes them to end their life. This can be the person who shoots themselves in the head or the person who jumps in front of the train to push the old lady out of the way and dies in the process. One has metal issues and one did it with selfless regard. I think mental illnesses get a pass and so do those who are doing it with selfless regard.
You can't determine whether something is a sin based on intent. If you are pulled over for doing 100 mph on your Busa, whether you just weren't paying attention to your speed or whether you were knowingly breaking the speed limit does not make one a crime and the other one not. Even if you don't believe your body belongs to God and he is only allowing you to use it for a while, the commandment is "thou shalt not kill" it does not make a distinction between yourself and others.
Taking an action that results in your death is not necessarily suicide. The example used of the soldier throwing himself on the grenade. The soldier's actions to protect others before himself resulted in his death, but he did not commit suicide. The person who threw the grenade killed the soider.
If your straight it's a sin but if your gay it's ok
Alright alright just a sick twisted joke from a twisted sick mind
I really hope we don't have gay members who see this. Please be respectful.
BW,
Again we are talking semantics.
I agree that is not the same as shooting yourself, jumping from heights or taking a bottle of pills but suicide it is. That soldier made the choice to kill himself to save his buddies. He did not have to do it! While it is a very honorable way to go it is a choice just the same as a gun, rope or pills.
Just for the record, and not that it really changes the meaning here, but the commandment is not "Thou shall not kill".
It literally translates as "Thou shall not murder".
Murder is to steal someone's life, and suicide would fall under that.
You can even murder someone's character, or hope, which could even lead to their own suicide.
To kill is to get rid of some really bad folks who need to die. GOD allowed to his people to kill the enemy(not murder)throughout the Old Testament.
I'm not trying to pick over things either, just wanted to clarify that before the conversation goes any further.
It literally translates as "Thou shall not murder".
Murder is to steal someone's life, and suicide would fall under that.
You can even murder someone's character, or hope, which could even lead to their own suicide.
To kill is to get rid of some really bad folks who need to die. GOD allowed to his people to kill the enemy(not murder)throughout the Old Testament.
I'm not trying to pick over things either, just wanted to clarify that before the conversation goes any further.
Malicious, Newman and any others in the same boat, I feel your pain. I am on the same merry-go-round.
As for the posts made so far, Some very thought inspiring poasts.
Those saying that the soldier throwing himself on a grenade is NOT suicide, I disagree. By the defintion of suicide it IS suicide. Causing yourown death for what ever reason is suicide by definition. That was the part of the reason for this post. I will be posting my paper in a few hours to look at the other side of suicide. The side that most people do not think of when the subject is brought up. That was the reason I wrote the paper for class. My professor thought I was morbid when I chose the topic but then after reading see understood that I do not look at only the dark side of dark subjects.
As for the posts made so far, Some very thought inspiring poasts.
Those saying that the soldier throwing himself on a grenade is NOT suicide, I disagree. By the defintion of suicide it IS suicide. Causing yourown death for what ever reason is suicide by definition. That was the part of the reason for this post. I will be posting my paper in a few hours to look at the other side of suicide. The side that most people do not think of when the subject is brought up. That was the reason I wrote the paper for class. My professor thought I was morbid when I chose the topic but then after reading see understood that I do not look at only the dark side of dark subjects.
Warchild
Banned
I actually agree with your first sentence.... different religions approach in in different ways, but as a general rule, the practice does seem frown upon by most organized religions.
Personally, I generally view suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
But it's not just that simple. Suicide that is induced by mental/emotional pain and suffering is a more applicable description to the "permanent solution to a temporary problem" premise.
Yet, this does not extend into suicide for those who do not have a "temporary" problem - bone cancer, clinical stage IV HIV, etc. Incurable, ultimately lethal medical issues (vice mental health issues, which I'll treat separately) is a different matter altogether. However, now we are delving into assisted suicide, which as previously mentioned is a separate subject.
But you second sentence here, Saiid, I'll definitely take exception to:
That's a classic example of the fear tactic inherent in organized religions. Unless you believe they way *they* believe, you can't have an afterlife and don't get to have a "soul"?
???
Shyeah, okay.... I'll reject this out of hand. This argument holds the same validity as Eric Cartman's contention that gingers, jews and the japanese have no souls, which of course is silly nonsense.
Well..... it might be somewhat true for gingers.... they are a little creepy.
OK. I'll accept that definition since intent doesn't define sin. That doesn't change whether it is a sin or not. It also doesn't change that the Father will pass judgement on the sin. As stated before, there is not a single judgement and sentence that will be passed on to all who commit a sin.
Scenario 1: Your kids are playing in the house and one knocks your favorite mug off the table and it shatters on the floor.
Scenario 2: Your kid gets mad at you, picks up you favorite mug and throws it to the floor shattering it.
There is very different intent in each scenario, but in both scenarios, the mug is shattered. The difference is how you will judge and punish the child. A sin is a sin regardless of circumstance or intent. How you are judged and punished for the sin is up to God.
Ketchmi
Registered
Having a very good friend take that path just two weeks ago today brings forth the mess that I have been going through. He was 38, nicest guy you ever met and none of our little group knew the depth of his depression. Everyone says "if only he would have talked to me". BS. He was seeking professional help and the last text he sent 7 minutes before he stepped in front of a train was to his counseler and was simply "I tried".
The couple of weeks prior he had seemed happy, was enjoying life, had just had back surgery and was looking forward to being able to drive and get back to work. From what I have deduced, once the decision is made a lot of the pain goes away as there is no longer the struggle. The night before we all got together and had a grand time. It was probably the last thing on his "list to do" before the end.
We all have our demons to deal with and even though this guy had a pretty good life, great family, tons of friends, good work, etc. he must have, in his mind, had to deal with more than he could handle.
The (LDS) church was standing room only for the funeral. I really have a bad taste in my mouth still for what the bishop pulled. After several people, friends and family stood up and talked, the a**ho*e bishop decided to spout his views on suicide...for 40 minutes. Half the family walked out and he still didn't get the clue that he was way out of line. Here was a church full of people that loved him and were mourning his loss (including his 14yo daughter!) regardless of how it may have transpired and this SOB has to throw it in their faces that he murdered himself. (EXACT words!) Can you imagine having to walk out of your loved ones funeral because of one closed minded bishop's views?
As far as I am concerned, depression can be from situation based or physically chemical based. If it is a chemical reaction, it is a disease the same as cancer and does at times take lives. Normally situation based or not too severe chemical based can be controlled chemically thanks to our medical prowness. There is a lot more to the subject but I have to get off to my shop and slave away another day.
Am I angry? Yes. Am I hurt? Yes. Is it because I am selfish? Yes. He is now at peace and I hope he is taking that never-ending hike through the most beautiful mountains with no pain, worries or concerns.
RIP Blane Crabtree. You are never gone as long as you are remembered.
The couple of weeks prior he had seemed happy, was enjoying life, had just had back surgery and was looking forward to being able to drive and get back to work. From what I have deduced, once the decision is made a lot of the pain goes away as there is no longer the struggle. The night before we all got together and had a grand time. It was probably the last thing on his "list to do" before the end.
We all have our demons to deal with and even though this guy had a pretty good life, great family, tons of friends, good work, etc. he must have, in his mind, had to deal with more than he could handle.
The (LDS) church was standing room only for the funeral. I really have a bad taste in my mouth still for what the bishop pulled. After several people, friends and family stood up and talked, the a**ho*e bishop decided to spout his views on suicide...for 40 minutes. Half the family walked out and he still didn't get the clue that he was way out of line. Here was a church full of people that loved him and were mourning his loss (including his 14yo daughter!) regardless of how it may have transpired and this SOB has to throw it in their faces that he murdered himself. (EXACT words!) Can you imagine having to walk out of your loved ones funeral because of one closed minded bishop's views?
As far as I am concerned, depression can be from situation based or physically chemical based. If it is a chemical reaction, it is a disease the same as cancer and does at times take lives. Normally situation based or not too severe chemical based can be controlled chemically thanks to our medical prowness. There is a lot more to the subject but I have to get off to my shop and slave away another day.
Am I angry? Yes. Am I hurt? Yes. Is it because I am selfish? Yes. He is now at peace and I hope he is taking that never-ending hike through the most beautiful mountains with no pain, worries or concerns.
RIP Blane Crabtree. You are never gone as long as you are remembered.
Very good point Dennis. Never looked at it from those points of view
I'm sorry to read of your loss.
Warchild
Banned
Massive condolences for your loss, Ketchmi. :down:
Of all the nutty religions in this country, that LDS cult is a Special Kind of crazy. The way this religion developed, the way it was conducted early on, and even to this day..... complete nutty cult-like insanity. But in their defense.... there hasn't been 2000 years to fake the record, cleanup the inconsistencies by forgetting them, altering them, losing them, or actually eliminating the competition.
Sorry that the bat-sh*t crazy bishop took a massive Mormon turd on your good friend. Damn......
Of all the nutty religions in this country, that LDS cult is a Special Kind of crazy. The way this religion developed, the way it was conducted early on, and even to this day..... complete nutty cult-like insanity. But in their defense.... there hasn't been 2000 years to fake the record, cleanup the inconsistencies by forgetting them, altering them, losing them, or actually eliminating the competition.
Sorry that the bat-sh*t crazy bishop took a massive Mormon turd on your good friend. Damn......
Thanks. Too many people decide they are the judge and jury and pass down the same sentence unilaterally. I believe this is why we try to find loopholes and gray areas in the definitions. We are led to believe we will be judged and punished harshly for something that is accidental.
I am sorry to hear of your loss. It is a hard pill to swallow for everyone who lost in this situation.
As I have learned through the years living through similar losses, do not blame yourself for not helping. When the choice is made it is made.
If you need an ear or a shoulder please PM me and I will listen. It is hard but we are a family and we do not judge.
RIP Mr. Crabtree.
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