Government mandated birth control

[Rainbow7]

Birth Control is not a requirement for most women to live

Exactly. Yet Dino, Raydog and the Democrats would have you believe that women all over America are living lives of misery and fear, lives which will be cut tragically short unless those evil, bigoted Catholics are forced to provide them with free contraception...

 

[Dino]

If you feel that my post is a personal attack, you should grow thicker skin. If I were attacking you personally, I would call you an arrogant simpleton who posts self-serving drivel under the guise of informed opinion, who belabors discussion points to the/quote point of irrelevance. But since I wasn't attacking you, I won't say that….

Mr. Brown, you don't think doing a little research into the issue could be considered informed opinion? You don't have to agree and I am interested in your disagreement. As for belaboring a point this thread has gone down a couple different paths so I am not sure what you are talking about here.

You do however act as if you and only you are capable of forming informed un-biased opinions, and that anyone who disagrees with your particular brand of liberalism is an uniformed dunce. Anyone that insults you is hurting your feelings, yet you find it acceptable to insult a fellow board member who has given you the benefit of her personal experience. When you have developed your internet sensitivity level to greater than that of a pre-pubescent
girl, let me know. Until then I shall refrain from commenting on your silly nonsense, unless you once again insult someone I regard as a friend.
Understand now?

Who did I insult? Where did I insult them?

This wasn't a healthcare issue to begin with, but the liberal side will jump on any wagon that's being touted as the next best thing for everyone, and even toss in a side of "Oh, this will help women and their plight in the work force" bit for good measure. :wtf: [\quote]

Dino likes facts, and I laid out FACTS here. I don't think citing articles formed by others OPINIONS negates these very simple facts:

1) Birth Control is not a requirement for most women to live
2) There are non-medical options for BC that any woman can utilize, if she feels BC isn't providing her an affordable option
3) Flukes opted to go with the shock and awe version of what it costs a woman to have BC, and I know for a fact, both with and without insurance coverage, her #'s are GREATLY exaggerated [\quote]

Ok Michelle

1) I agree and I have not said otherwise
2) True but this historically has not proved reliable when looking at the population of women as a whole.
3) This may be true but it doesn't take away from the fact that BC has contributed to women advancing in education and in the workforce.

Now if you believe that education is a key component to escaping poverty and breaking the cycle of welfare then wouldn't it make economic sense to pay a little more (possibly) so that poor women has access to BC (either cheap or free) so they can get an education and escape the cycle of welfare?

Those 3 facts of *this* matter brought up days ago are being COMPLETELY ignored. The reason? I have NO IDEA other than those in favor of a bill like this just want free stuff for all, doesn't matter if it's jelly beans or drugs, everyone's entitled to it simply because they want it. Pretty pathetic that it took so many lefts and utterly sad that the most basic flaws in this bill are being ignored by those that want it so badly. You guys don't even know what it is you're fighting for, and that's coming from a person that claims no political or religious affiliation. That's just one American that sees how stupid a mandate like this truly is.
[\quote]
I gladly rest my case

I think it is a matter of looking at the big picture. I agree with your points on an individual level but when you look at it from a social level it takes on a slightly different perspective that I feel is worthy of discussion. Had I realized you would be insulted by this I would not have addressed your comment.

 

[Dino]

Doyle! How dare you bring logic to the table...
This would actually be much easier around a fire I think because we all could speak a lot easier then trying to type out what we are trying to convey... Doyle I have become a little cynical and I am the absolute biggest "Not Fan" of Dino... He has been banned at least two other times and just keeps coming back for more… [\quote]

Seriously Cap? I was banned before meeting you guys at the Bash like 3 years ago, and I admit my behavior in some cases was wrong but are you really still upset about something from that long ago? I figured that shaking your hand at the bash and meeting you face to face would have let bygones be bygones.

I will try to find the thread a few years ago where he wanted us to all pay for I think it was Healthcare for Illegal immigrants... How did it go again Dino? "They are Humans you know".. Until Steph decides to pony up on his ideals himself and start showing some conviction I personally don't want to hear anything from him about how I should spend my tax dollars for his cause… [\quote]

I don't believe health care is something that should be withheld from human beings based upon their socio-economic status. Healthy people are productive and contribute so it only makes sense to do what we can to have a health society. Wouldn't it actually saves tax dollars in other areas?

What are you looking for out of me when you say "pony up to my ideals?"

HOWEVER

Doyle you are a valued member... you know I respect your opinion because you not only say it, you live your convictions... If memory serves me correctly Dino held a govt job yet hates the govt... How backasswards is that?

So, when you have someone that lives what they speak it holds a lot of value, when they just keep on giving my money away because that's what he feels it just doesn't seem right....

Flame away!

When exactly did I say I hate the government? I disagree with many things my government does but I have never said I hated my government. The work I did was serving in the military I am proud of my service and every other service member.



Thanks to everyone that has sent me a PM the kindness from those of you who both agree and disagree with my position is a true reflection of the good people on the .org.

 

[lil charlie]

Now if you believe that education is a key component to escaping poverty and breaking the cycle of welfare then wouldn't it make economic sense to pay a little more (possibly) so that poor women has access to BC (either cheap or free) so they can get an education and escape the cycle of welfare?
QUOTE]

Question for you Dino, as I want to see where you stand on the big picture. How is providing free BC to a person who is living in poverty going to help eradicate the poor? If she is too poor to afford generic BC what makes you think that she can afford a college education? Or are my tax dollars giving her that for free too? Are you saying give the poor free BC and free education so they are no longer poor or are you saying give them free BC so they can’t breed anymore?

Free is not free. Why is it that the liberals want to give everything away for free? What would the tax rate need to be to cover all of this “free stuff”? 40%?? Why in the hell should I be forced to work harder to cover the cost for someone else who chooses to live on the government tit? If the tax rate gets stupid high the majority of the country (middle class) would not be able to afford to buy items, beyond basic living necessities, to put money into the system. Then who’s going to pay for the free stuff?

 

[skydivr]

1. Vabs: Thank you for posting your perspective as a woman. And I'm talking about a RESPONSIBLE woman, not an irresponsible one. Us men cannot comprehend no matter how hard we try. Personal responsibility seems to be a word that libs just cannot comprehend.

2. Nothing is "FREE"; especially when it comes to government programs - someone is ALWAYS paying for someone else. And those who are paying are not a bottomless pit of money.

3. As a private institution, the Catholic church certainly has the right to make a choice at what options it wants to offer, especially on the moral grounds that they have stood steadfastly to for hundreds if not thousands of years. They aren't discriminating against ANY Class of employee if the don't offer it to ANY employee (and I think SCOUTUS will back that) so the discrimination argument won't work. The OP was not about the merits of birth control, it's about the government trying to force its current liberal leanings on a private institution. Everyone whines about separation of Church and State, Except when the tables are turned on them. This woman didn't have to got to Georgetown, she CHOSE it. If she does't like it, there's the door don't let it slap you in that azz on the way out. She's just making a name for herself so when she graduates she can get a cushy job with the ACLU or something.

4. It constantly amazes me that libs could be THIS socialist. I really shouldn't be surprised anymore. Our country is unique compared to most of the rest of the world, why is it that libs want us to be like the rest of Europe - If you are doing what everyone else is doing, you are likely doing it WRONG.

5. Universal Heath Care IS a noble cause. And if we could find a cost-effective cure for cancer, I'd hope everyone got it, and I'd be glad to try and subsidize SOME of it. But the cost of Obamacare is going to crush this country. This is just another nail in the casket of individual choice being supersceded by the "public good".

6. I, for one, haven't had so much fun in a thread in months.

 

[Warchild]

This thread makes baby jeebus cry.

 

[lil charlie]

This thread makes baby jeebus cry.

Maybe his hormones are out of wack and we should give him free BC and tell him if he wants to succeed in the work place that he NEEDS it.

 

[skydivr]

Here's what's coming....

 

[BusaBret]

This thread makes baby jeebus cry.

Can't believe you went there

From my dunce stool :cookoo:

 

[Warchild]

 

[raydog]

Exactly. Yet Dino, Raydog and the Democrats would have you believe that women all over America are living lives of misery and fear, lives which will be cut tragically short unless those evil, bigoted Catholics are forced to provide them with free contraception...

I love this...."I would have you believe.....women are living lives of misery and fear...." I don't think I've ever been misquoted, or misinterpreted at such a profound level before!
To restate my motto.....I love my motorcycles fast, my bass down low, and the fact that it takes two conservatives to cancel out my liberal, socialistic vote.

 

[skydivr]

Me and Rainbow got that covered Doyle

 

[Dino]

Now if you believe that education is a key component to escaping poverty and breaking the cycle of welfare then wouldn't it make economic sense to pay a little more (possibly) so that poor women has access to BC (either cheap or free) so they can get an education and escape the cycle of welfare?
QUOTE]

Question for you Dino, as I want to see where you stand on the big picture. How is providing free BC to a person who is living in poverty going to help eradicate the poor? If she is too poor to afford generic BC what makes you think that she can afford a college education? Or are my tax dollars giving her that for free too? Are you saying give the poor free BC and free education so they are no longer poor or are you saying give them free BC so they can’t breed anymore?

Free is not free. Why is it that the liberals want to give everything away for free? What would the tax rate need to be to cover all of this “free stuffâ€￾? 40%?? Why in the hell should I be forced to work harder to cover the cost for someone else who chooses to live on the government tit? If the tax rate gets stupid high the majority of the country (middle class) would not be able to afford to buy items, beyond basic living necessities, to put money into the system. Then who’s going to pay for the free stuff?

I don't think anything you do for one person will eradicate the poor. I do think that if we want fewer people on welfare and we know educations is important to escaping the cycle of welfare then supporting the ability to get and complete education is a good idea.

We have the lowest personal income tax rates since the 70%'s. We have a significant problem with the way welfare has been administered. We give hand outs instead of hand ups. I am pretty liberal but I also know that simply giving people money is no the same as setting them up for success through education and creating opportunities to be come self sufficient. In the long run things we do to break the cycle of welfare will save money.

That said before taxes are raised there is a whole lot that could be saved through eliminating waste in the federal government.

 

[Mr Brown]

I'm not gonna keep arguing with you Steph, I've explained the flaws in your logic, and why your opinion has no merit. I am a proud liberal, but that doesn't mean I am socialist, or think everything the dems do/say is a good plan. This issue is clearly one that they are getting wrong. No surprise, they are ALL career politicians, who are interested in nothing more than getting themselves re-elected. This goes for all the would-be's and currents. I've said it before and still stand by it: None of them could care less about any of us, they are robbing us blind and laughing in our faces while they do it. The only class warfare we need to be concerned with is the one that the ruling class (let's face it, they even have separate laws for themselves...) is waging against the rest of us.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Hah! Ten pages and I have resisted posting.

Y'all keep arguing

 

[Rainbow7]

I don't believe health care is something that should be withheld from human beings based upon their socio-economic status. Healthy people are productive and contribute so it only makes sense to do what we can to have a healthy society.

Are you smoking crack again? - Why should taxpayers have to fund healthcare (or anything else) for illegal aliens who pay no taxes?! How do illegal aliens contribute to society in any way, other than clogging up prisons and hospitals? (Or working as housekeepers/nannies for wealthy liberals.)

 

[Warchild]

 

[Rainbow7]

So where were the cries of indignation from liberals when Bill Maher publicly called Sarah Palin a "c**t"? You liberals have the most hypocritical double standards.