Can't find the logic.

[NightCrawler]

I have read and heard so many times how the K5 will open up a few bike lengths on the Busa at the start of a roll-on race only to be ran down and past by the Busa at around 150MPH.

This is weird to me because from what I'm being told, the K5 is restricted to 186MPH just like the Busa. If the K5 pulls ahead at the start of the race, that obviously means its -quicker-. With that said, wouldn't it reach 186 before the Busa, and at that point the 2 bikes would pretty much hold their postions (the Busa being behind?)

I'm guessing the K5 isn't as aerodynamic as the Busa and at 150MPH it begins to face too much air resistance to hold its rapid acceleration. That's probably the opening the Busa needs since it can cut through the air a bit easier. That seems to be logical but is there more to it?

Ever since I began reading posts about the K5 pulling ahead and then being ran down, I've wondered how is that possible if both bikes top out at 186?

 

[PDBusa]

powerband? The Busa seems to just keep gettin' it all the way through the rpms. I'm sure aerodynamics is a big help too.
Just throwing it out there.



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[stkr00]

I'm not sure about the K5/6 pulling out first, but it's possible.

The difference between them and the Busa is in the gear ratios of the transmission and the final drive ratio. The gearing allows the K5/6 to have a "quicker" launch, but the Busa has a lot more torque and horsepower to overcome the taller gearing, which allows it to real in the K5/6.

Of course...I could be all wrong on this

 

[BentValve]

The Gixxer 1K has the same peak HP and weighs 120lbs less, what is there to discuss? The aeros? Ok....

Go back and look at Sport Riders wind tunnel tests from 2000 and the GSX-R750 had less frontal area than the Busa but it produced more drag...proving the Busa was more aerodynamic than the Gixxer 750.

The 750 was more aerodynamic than the 12R was though.

Even then , all three bikes were close in their 'drag coefficient' figures:
Suzuki Hayabusa 3.37
Kawasaki ZX-12R 3.67
Suzuki GSX-R750 3.49

Anyways, that was nearly 6 years ago....Suzuki put the Gixxer back in the tunnel and you can believe that its more aerodynamic than it was back then.

The frontal area is clearly smaller than ever which play a huge role, then there is the shape...hell even the exhaust pipe has a slick shape on the new 1Ks.
Put the Busa and the new Gixxer in the wind tunnel...Id be willing to bet we have a new winner. Just ride the Gixxer down the freeway and you can feel the bike drag less than the Busa..its that obvious.

I guess in either bike if you have a guy who dont get in a good crouch and/or wears baggy clothes then it would be enough to give the other bike the advantage....so here we are again to that old excuse we have used before...
Which bike gets to 186 first? Its rider dependent.


The Busas suspension, weight , longer wheelbase and less agressive seating position allow it to still be the straight line king IMO.


For every Hayabusa rider that is too scared to top out their bike , there are 3 more Gixxer riders that feel the same way.

You think the Busa can get a little sketchy when holding it WOT in 6th? Yeah, no thanks....160-170 tops is about
all a guy will ever need on a Gixxer to get the adrenaline flowing.

 

[CorrodedAlien]

...that and new shorts. Hellgnats hurt over 100...

 

[grabntwist]

That initial jump the GIX has to do all with its lighter weight. Even two equal Busa's doin a roll-on with one heavier rider on one of them will cause this to happen. If the Busa's reeling the 1k in at a higher speed it's the Busa's slight torque advantage and aeros.

BV, I was with you the whole way on your reply untill you said, "Put the Busa and the new Gixxer in the wind tunnel...Id be willing to bet we have a new winner."
Please, all facts no guesses or bets. I really don't think the new 1k has better aeros only because Suzuki can care less about making it that slick. It's a race bike with blinkers, for circuit type racing. Although it is more aerodynamic than previous models it is unlikly it will the more than the Busa. If it were it would look more like the Busa. After all that funky shape is what makes it slick.

I've had an 03' 1k, and my 03' Busa topped out. I've had a 05' 1k almost there. I have to say that The Busa felt best. The bike just feels more stable at sustained high speeds. Anyone who don't think this has to be crazy.

 

[Youkai]

The Gixxer 1K has the same peak HP and weighs 120lbs less, what is there to discuss?  The aeros?  Ok....

Go back and look at Sport Riders wind tunnel tests from 2000 and the GSX-R750 had less frontal area than the Busa but it produced more drag...proving the Busa was more aerodynamic than the Gixxer 750.

The 750 was more aerodynamic than the 12R was though.

Even then , all three bikes were close in their 'drag coefficient' figures:
Suzuki Hayabusa  3.37  
Kawasaki ZX-12R  3.67  
Suzuki GSX-R750  3.49  

Anyways, that was nearly 6 years ago....Suzuki put the Gixxer back in the tunnel and you can believe that its more aerodynamic than it was back then.

The frontal area is clearly smaller than ever which play a huge role, then there is the shape...hell even the exhaust pipe has a slick shape on the new 1Ks.  
Put the Busa and the new Gixxer in the wind tunnel...Id be willing to bet we have a new winner.  Just ride the Gixxer down the freeway and you can feel the bike drag less than the Busa..its that obvious.

I guess in either bike if you have a guy who dont get in a good crouch and/or wears baggy clothes then it would be enough to give the other bike the advantage....so here we are again to that old excuse we have used before...
Which bike gets to 186 first?  Its rider dependent.


The Busas suspension, weight , longer wheelbase and less agressive seating position allow it to still be the straight line king IMO.


For every Hayabusa rider that is too scared to top out their bike , there are 3 more Gixxer riders that feel the same way.

You think the Busa can get a little sketchy when holding it WOT in 6th?  Yeah, no thanks....160-170 tops is about
all a guy will ever need on a Gixxer to get the adrenaline flowing.

I don't know about these figures for drag coefficients. I did not see this article but from my studies in Mechanical Engineering, the drag coefficient for vehicles today do not even reach 1.

Here are known coefficients:

F-16: 0.16 drag coefficient
UPS Delivery Truck: 0.5-0.6 drag coefficient
GM EV1 (little electric car): 0.19 drag coefficient

So for a Busa to have a 3.37 drag is off to me. Just my .02

 

[ks-waterbug]

Simple......
Busa makes more Torque/HP over a greater distance of RPM's than 1K. (HP/Torque Curve)
Its kind of like a Big Block Motor racing a small block... Generally the small block tears the Big Block Up at first, Then the Big Boys get into there zone and reel the smaller displacement motors in...... BUT, not always. Can't factor out rider/driver!
Plus, everything mentioned above.



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[kod3001]

Its logically got to be to do with power, not just the raw stuff, but torque to keep it going up there, as well as the drag coefficients.

Looking at any vehicle - bike, car, plane, whatever, one of the key aspects is what goes on at the back. If the air stream isn't sliding neatly off the back, and turning into a vortex, it'll come back to the bike, I'm guessing this is one of the reasons for the Busa's rear hump.

A flat area at the back will surely create more drag.

 

[Tufbusa]

My son and I both bought new 05 Gixxer's in March. We put them both on the dyno and both put out 154 HP and 77 lbs torque. A stock busa in real life will produce around 152 HP and 96 lbs torque. Torque is what does the work, Horse Power is how fast the work is done. The reason the busa pulls a bit better on the high end is all about torque and maybe a little about airflow? I have an 05 LE and when we run her against one of the gixxers, the gixxer seems to pull ever so slightly better than the busa but almost a perfect match, up to 160 mph. We never tried them at higher speed. But the gixxer seem to pull the busa by about a bike length from a roll on from 40 up to 160. Now that's not a scientific test but it was the results of our experience. I like my busa but I love my gixxer!

 

[Got-Busa?]

The only reason the liter bikes jump on the role-ons is because of stock gearing. If the bikes were geared the same, the BUSA would just continue to pull away from the get go. But since it's geared a lot taller stock, from a certain speed 60-80mph, etc...the liter bikes are closer to there power band from the hit at that gear/speed desired. Take that away by either gearing the 1k higher or dropping the BUSA ratio lower and the race will be a completly different storey.

The reason it claws back at 150+ is because of TORQUE combined with the AERO. Yes the 05/06 1k may have less frontal area but it has a lot more DRAG. That is the primary problem with the liter bikes and top speed. To much turbulent air slowing the bike in the higher speeds.



P.S....I have had ZERO trouble with any 1000cc bike I have raced from any role on or TOPSPEED.

 

[Oldroller]

Well it's a little known fact within the Hayabusa community, but on my last trip to Japan I was lucky enough to get a VIP behind the scenes tour of Suzuki’s top secret Hayabusa lab. I discovered that in 1999, the Suzuki engineers and top scientist invented a revolutionary new device that only the Hayabusa has. Code named the "Atom Smasher", it lies hidden beneath all that plastic. This was the real purpose of the aerodynamic fairing. This device emits a subsonic intermittent frequency that actually rarifies the air molecules so that any oncoming air flow is 1/3 to 1/2 its normal molecular density. Because the air is so thin, the Hayabusa cuts cleanly through it like a knife through butter. Less resistance results in the increased speeds. This is the real truth behind the Hayabusa's incredible performance. I hope this puts all other speculative theories to rest for once and for all.



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[ike]

Good one.

 

[Deej]

Well it's a little known fact within the Hayabusa community, but on my last trip to Japan I was lucky enough to get a VIP behind the scenes tour of Suzuki’s top secret Hayabusa lab. I discovered that in 1999, the Suzuki engineers and top scientist invented a revolutionary new device that only the Hayabusa has. Code named the "Atom Smasher", it lies hidden beneath all that plastic. This was the real purpose of the aerodynamic fairing. This device emits a subsonic intermittent frequency that actually rarifies the air molecules so that any oncoming air flow is 1/3 to 1/2 its normal molecular density. Because the air is so thin, the Hayabusa cuts cleanly through it like a knife through butter. Less resistance results in the increased speeds. This is the real truth behind the Hayabusa's incredible performance. I hope this puts all other speculative theories to rest for once and for all.

Watch out for the atom smasher, cool, I'm going outside now and look for mine

 

[frisbee]

Ain't NO 1k getting out in front of me! Thats right BV we will get together soon!

 

[Cecil_Stringer]

I've got both.... a Busa and a K5... the K5 is not to be taken lightly.
All things being equal, the K5 is lighter and with at least the same power (arguably more).

As for the 186mph limit... I trake my K5 to the max the speedo will read... 186mph, then the RPMs continue to rise.

The Busa is more comfortable and more stable at the higher speeds.

However, You can not outrun technology.



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[BA BUSA]

The Gixxer gets the jump because of it's lighter weight and lower gearing....once they get over 140-150 the torque and better aero of the Busa is why the tables start to turn  

 

[thebbbusa]

...been listening to this discussion since yesterday, and it is a bit intriguing.

So, if the K5/6 is so fast to 150 then why do you see mostly Hayabusas at the drag strip? (Not counting the Turbo guys)

 

[Got-Busa?]

Because the BUSA is easier to launch, stronger clutches, and mainly A LOT MORE AFTERMARKET SUPPORT!

 

[ks-waterbug]

...been listening to this discussion since yesterday, and it is a bit intriguing.

So, if the K5/6 is so fast to 150 then why do you see mostly Hayabusas at the drag strip?  (Not counting the Turbo guys)

Apples and oranges... I think the discussion started with the bikes in their street clothes. But, at the track there is NO comparison. IMOP the 1K is pretty close to its potential as bought, the Busa is at the bottom. This being said there is no where to go but up! As was said the sky is the limit on what you can do with one of these........ Busa's rule