7 killed overnight in Chicago shootings..what happened to their strict gun laws?

I would posit that those of us that are trying to protect our rights tend to have a bit more credibility in that arena that those that are striving to remove our rights.

Who's talking about taking your rights away?

So now your saying that people who dont care to have guns dont have any credibility on the topic of gun control or guns in general?

I guess that means those who have had an abortion before have more credibility in the area then those who dont and are striving to take away their rights to have one?
 
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Who's talking about taking your rights away?
It's not who's trying to take them, it's who already has (i.e. Chicago.)

So now your saying that people who dont care to have guns dont have any credibility on the topic of gun control or guns in general?
That's not what we're discussing here. We're hilighting the gun ban in Chicago and the irony (if you can call it irony in such a grim situation) that seven people were killed using guns in a city that has banned guns. It irony is that the gun law did nothing for these seven people, nor will it do anything to stop the next criminal that uses a gun in the commission of a crime.

I guess that means those who have had an abortion before have more credibility in the area then those who dont and are striving to take away their rights to have one?
That's a straw man argument and has nothing to do with our current discussion. I am simply suggesting that those of us fighting to retain a Constitutional right should be granted a bit more leniance on the subject considering that we are defending our rights, not attacking them.
 
It's not who's trying to take them, it's who already has (i.e. Chicago.)

You can use chicago as an example, i'll use the National Parks in how your now able to carry.

That's not what we're discussing here. We're hilighting the gun ban in Chicago and the irony (if you can call it irony in such a grim situation) that seven people were killed using guns in a city that has banned guns. It irony is that the gun law did nothing for these seven people, nor will it do anything to stop the next criminal that uses a gun in the commission of a crime.

I'm sure I could pick a state that has little gun control and say that people were killed because of the lack of control. I could also pick states and other countries that have stricked gun control laws and show you that crime decreased. People will always pick and choose the stories that back up their own beliefs.


That's a straw man argument and has nothing to do with our current discussion.

If you want to call it the "straw man argument" go for it. Im just using your logic from your previous post to show how it really has no merit.
 
When I see something like this in the news I am saddend, but also in the back of my mind is the US gov't statistics on states who have concealed laws, and the lowering of murders and violent crime in those states.
Its proven that states who have implimented the cc laws have had their violent crime rate go down.........just saying there might be something to it...:whistle:
 
Its proven that states who have implimented the cc laws have had their violent crime rate go down.........just saying there might be something to it...:whistle:

Its proven that states that implimented stricter gun control laws had their crime rates lowered.
 
When I see something like this in the news I am saddend, but also in the back of my mind is the US gov't statistics on states who have concealed laws, and the lowering of murders and violent crime in those states.
Its proven that states who have implimented the cc laws have had their violent crime rate go down.........just saying there might be something to it...:whistle:

Its proven that states that implimented stricter gun control laws had their crime rates lowered.

If you torture the numbers long enough they will confess to anything.
 
You can use chicago as an example, i'll use the National Parks in how your now able to carry.
The thread title cites Chicago. So far, we have been discussing the event located in Chicago and how it pertains to the gun laws in the same city.


I'm sure I could pick a state that has little gun control and say that people were killed because of the lack of control. I could also pick states and other countries that have stricked gun control laws and show you that crime decreased. People will always pick and choose the stories that back up their own beliefs.
You could do that, true. But as I mentioned above, we're discussing Chicago's laws. I don't understand why you're trying to toss out straw man arguments in an attempt to turn the discussion.

If you want to call it the "straw man argument" go for it. Im just using your logic from your previous post to show how it really has no merit.
How does my initial post contain no logic? I simply suggested that the opposition uses similar tactics to convey their message. I also implied that those defending their rights should be granted a bit more leniance considering that they (we) are under attack. Would you not agree that defending one's rights would be a somewhat nobler stance than the contrary?

Ben said:
Its proven that states that implimented stricter gun control laws had their crime rates lowered.
It's not proven when data exists to the contrary. It's a theory.

If Justice Breyer, a rather middle of the road Supreme Court Justice has a hard time making a decision on the issue, I would wager that your data is severely lacking on the subject.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/weekinreview/29liptak.html
 
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Its proven that states that implimented stricter gun control laws had their crime rates lowered.


Bennie your gonna have to back that one up .
Exactly what crimes went down or were lowered in what city and what twenty year study were you reading .
I can and will provide numerous links to long term studies proving opposite of what you say. I have lived the proof in Florida for the last twenty years and you can see any DoJ or FBI crime stat to back it up .

Unless your a Nazi soldier in Pre war Poland no city in the universe ever became 'safer' as a result of stricter gun laws .

LINK TO THE STATISTICS YOU USED AS BASIS FOR THAT COMMENT PLEASE .
 
Let me show you how we do it in the South....One from TN.

No charges likely in deadly shooting | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

Sidenote: My wife know's this woman. She tried EVERYTHING UNDER THE LAW to protect herself before being forced to choose either HIM, or HER. In most cases, this headline ends up "Husband kills wife, then self"...but not this time...In IL, she'd be dead, because only the criminals can have guns....
 
Do they? Sounds like the pro-gun people on this board are enjoying it a bit. Nothing like generalizing though huh?

Kind of sad people on this board would take an unfortunate situation like this and use it as a pro-gun situation. I could easily take a different location like Michigan here, and talk about how a few responsible people in a militia were going to use their guns to kill police officers. :whistle:

And do you really think if Michigan outlawed guns that those militants would hand them over?

I'm just sayin'!

My belief is if you outlaw guns the criminals are not going to participate???

And for the record I didnt see ANYTHING in Skydivers post making light of the situation only pointing out that strict gun laws is NOT the answer.
 
Bennie your gonna have to back that one up .
Exactly what crimes went down or were lowered in what city and what twenty year study were you reading .
I can and will provide numerous links to long term studies proving opposite of what you say. I have lived the proof in Florida for the last twenty years and you can see any DoJ or FBI crime stat to back it up .

Unless your a Nazi soldier in Pre war Poland no city in the universe ever became 'safer' as a result of stricter gun laws .

LINK TO THE STATISTICS YOU USED AS BASIS FOR THAT COMMENT PLEASE .

Blanca, Just go to google and search "crimes decrease with gun control laws" and you'll find info that backs it up. You can also do the same to support crimes decreasing with lack of gun control. I made the general remark that its sad to see this board take an unfortinate incident as chicago and use it to support carrying guns and that anyone could do the same in other cities with low gun control and say the lack of gun control is the problem.

Must of hit a sore spot with some of you. :moon: :rofl:
 
And do you really think if Michigan outlawed guns that those militants would hand them over? .

Did I say that? If you go back and read what I wrote, I said I could report a story about gun violence in a city with lack of gun control and blame it on that just as they did with the threads topic.




And for the record I didnt see ANYTHING in Skydivers post making light of the situation only pointing out that strict gun laws is NOT the answer.

Did I say Skydiver said anything like that? Read the whole thread and then post.
 
Must of hit a sore spot with some of you. :moon: :rofl:

An unpopular spot to be certain, but not sore. I have no trouble defending my right to bear arms. I can and will defend it time and time again regardless of whom is trying to argue the point.

This "unfortunate" incident is an example of why gun laws do not work. In fact, it's not just an example, it's a beacon of truth. With great freedom comes great responsibility, and I choose to exercise that right with great care and a fervent defense of my family and friends.

It's sad that every time I turn a dark corner, I must prepare myself for an eventuality that may some day come true. It's sad that every time my dogs bark, I think to myself, is this the night when they're coming to rob me? It's sad that every time I pull up to a dark intersection, I have to remind myself that my gun is only seconds away, yet a carjacker may be quicker.

These are symptoms of a free society. And this is the price we pay to live in such a society. We are a homogeneous country, filled with races and ethnicities from across the world. No other country on the globe has such diversity, and sadly, as a result, no other country suffers from such crime. We suffer from crimes of the past, slavery, segregation, class welfare, etc. These demons haunt us today with an unproportional number of impoverished black and Latino families. Poverty causes crime, it's a fact. America does not suffer from crime because of guns, we suffer because of a unique dynamic of wealth and racial inequality. No law and no amount of reparations will ever solve that. And no gun laws will remove the angst and hatred that can be found in any ghetto or slum. Short of complete martial law, you will never rid our streets of guns. And you most certainly will never rid them of knives, bats, clubs, etc. As long as man walks erect, he will find ways to do harm to his fellow man. It doesn't matter if a man is murdered by gun or by fist, his life still holds the same value.

As I said, we live free, we die free, and we must accept the consequences of living in a land that offers us every opportunity in life to excel. We must help our fellow man to realize those opportunities, we must educate our children to become self-reliant, turn away from the hand of Uncle Sam and become a true American, complete with the right to defend our life, liberty and property. If it takes the death of seven individuals to wake up just one person, then I dare say it's worthy of an education. There is no disrespect in educating your fellow man about their freedoms.
 
It's sad that every time I turn a dark corner, I must prepare myself for an eventuality that may some day come true. It's sad that every time my dogs bark, I think to myself, is this the night when they're coming to rob me? It's sad that every time I pull up to a dark intersection, I have to remind myself that my gun is only seconds away, yet a carjacker may be quicker.

Sounds a bit like paranoia. Every time I hear my dog bark, I think man shut up already. Every time I walk in my neighborhood at night I think, what a beautiful night. Ever time I pull up into a dark intersection, I think to myself how nice it is to have some peace and quiet for once and not seeing everyone rushing around to get things done.

Should I be scared that someone may take my wallet if I dont have a gun? Or someone may break into my house and steal my stuff if I dont have a gun? Or someone may try to steal my car If I dont have a gun? Well, Im not. All those things can be replaced. If im going to walk around the rest of my life wondering how and when I might have to use my gun to keep me from dieing, then well, I dont think living would be worth it.

Just my .02

Now im done talking about guns. See you in the next thread :thumbsup:
 
Blanca, Just go to google and search "crimes decrease with gun control laws" and you'll find info that backs it up. You can also do the same to support crimes decreasing with lack of gun control. I made the general remark that its sad to see this board take an unfortinate incident as chicago and use it to support carrying guns and that anyone could do the same in other cities with low gun control and say the lack of gun control is the problem.

Must of hit a sore spot with some of you. :moon: :rofl:

No sore spot here.
Yes you can google and find just about anything.
But its easy to find thru google official Dept of Justice and FBI crime statistics showing crimes go down when innocent people have right to carry and criminals fear this.
I dont believe you can find a single official report showing opposite.

Stats here peaked in 1994-95. States fought back and enacted CWP laws.
Look at dates most states signed on these laws.
After people were given right to carry and even though libs will have you believe many more weapons are on the street now than then stats show crime going down.
Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice
http://www.nssf.org/share/BP2/2006/060506.htm?AoI=media
Sure other things influenced this but mostly is has been numerous states enacting right to carry laws.

These 2 cant possibly be true...MORE GUNS=LESS CRIME ACCORDING TO FBI....No....no....their are wrong....:rofl:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows.

Official FBI release.
Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report, 2009


Carry Concealed


Find similar OFFICIAL reports showing me a single city whose populace became safer as a result of stricter gun laws.
Not googled blogs but official reports.



:whistle:
 
Sounds a bit like paranoia. Every time I hear my dog bark, I think man shut up already. Every time I walk in my neighborhood at night I think, what a beautiful night. Ever time I pull up into a dark intersection, I think to myself how nice it is to have some peace and quiet for once and not seeing everyone rushing around to get things done.

Should I be scared that someone may take my wallet if I dont have a gun? Or someone may break into my house and steal my stuff if I dont have a gun? Or someone may try to steal my car If I dont have a gun? Well, Im not. All those things can be replaced. If im going to walk around the rest of my life wondering how and when I might have to use my gun to keep me from dieing, then well, I dont think living would be worth it.

Just my .02

Now im done talking about guns. See you in the next thread :thumbsup:



You do realize a good portion of home invasions and burlaries end with the homeowner being killed or seriously hurt don't you.
You honestly believe sitting at home tonight with your family when thugs break in that after stealing all your stuff they are gonna just say thanks and leave ?
Dont think the same sicko who may break in is the same sicko who may want to rape your wife, your teenage daughter ?
You have your right to your own opinions but sometimes they sound bit silly.
I hope there is a police officer within screaming distance of your home cuz alot can happen in the 3-however many minutes it may take for them to arrive, if you do manage to get to the phone.
With all due respect I bet you watch those Brinks home security commercials and believe thats all you need.

"Some guy breaks down door....aaaaah...woman screams....alarm goes off......he runs away and phone rings..."
"This is brinks...are you OK?"
"Yes someone just kicked my door in but he ran away"

What if he dont give two craps about the siren, comes in and wraps that phone cord around your neck and chokes the crap out of you while your family watches ?
No help coming for at least a few minutes.

NO GUNS, NO TRAINING, YOUR A STATISTIC AND YOUR WELL ARMED NEIGHBOR WILL REMEMBER YOU AT THE FUNERAL FOR YOU AND THE FOUR FAMILY MEMBERS BRUTALLY SLAIN IN THE HOME INVASION.

LIFE CANNOT BE REPLACED.
 
You want to know something scary, look up how many people are killed every year by "DRUNK DRIVERS" and people "TEXTING WHILE DRIVING"........gun related deaths will be the last of your worries....
 
You want to know something scary, look up how many people are killed every year by "DRUNK DRIVERS" and people "TEXTING WHILE DRIVING"........gun related deaths will be the last of your worries....

It's interesting how the situation changes when we're dealing with what people "perceive" to be a necessity versus what people "perceive" to be unnecessary.
 
Sounds a bit like paranoia. Every time I hear my dog bark, I think man shut up already. Every time I walk in my neighborhood at night I think, what a beautiful night. Ever time I pull up into a dark intersection, I think to myself how nice it is to have some peace and quiet for once and not seeing everyone rushing around to get things done.

Should I be scared that someone may take my wallet if I dont have a gun? Or someone may break into my house and steal my stuff if I dont have a gun? Or someone may try to steal my car If I dont have a gun? Well, Im not. All those things can be replaced. If im going to walk around the rest of my life wondering how and when I might have to use my gun to keep me from dieing, then well, I dont think living would be worth it.

Just my .02

Now im done talking about guns. See you in the next thread :thumbsup:


Shows you are not ready to defend yourself, possibly not willing either. A deer in the headlights liberal. You wouldn't know trouble if you saw it. If Michigan weren't so far, I could visit you at the morgue........lol
 
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