Even after the Tucson shooting lawmakers still get it

MR Felt

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After tragedy, Arizona eyes more gun rights - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


PHOENIX — Arizona has become a national leader in the gun rights movement in recent years as the state enacted law after law to protect the people's right to bear arms nearly anywhere, at anytime.

The shooting rampage that wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a former legislative colleague, has done nothing to slow down the Legislature.

Gun rights bills were introduced in the days after the shootings last week, and more proposals are to come.

"I don't think it really changes anything," Republican state Sen. Ron Gould said of the mass shooting. "I don't see how gun control could have prevented that shooting unless you take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens."

The shooting in Tucson brought new attention to the national gun control debate after authorities said the rampage was carried out by a man who couldn't get into the military because of his drug use and had repeated run-ins with police at his community college because of his bizarre mental behavior. Jared Loughner bought the 9 mm handgun legally at a Tucson gun store, and was also carrying extended magazines that hold 30 rounds of ammunition.

Arizona Republicans remain adamant that the shooting will not dissuade them from pushing their pro-gun agenda.



They want new laws allowing college and university faculty members to be able to carry concealed weapons on campus, an issue that gained attention after the 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech University. Only Utah has a law allowing concealed weapons on college campuses while 24 states have bans, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


"There are going to be some nervous Nellies, so to speak, but I think that it will be overcome," said John Wentling, a leader of the Arizona Citizens Defense League, a gun owners advocacy group active at the Capitol. "We still have an obligation to protect constitutional and civil rights."

Bills already introduced this year in Arizona in the Republican-controlled Legislature include barring landlords and homeowner groups from restricting the right to bear arms in self defense, and expanding the current law that allows gun owners to display a weapon in self defense. And Wentling said his group's priority bill, which he wouldn't discuss, hasn't been unveiled yet.

Arizona's permissive gun laws and the state's heritage dating to the Wild West days sometimes jolts newcomers, particularly in Phoenix and other metro areas where most residents live. Heads turned in 2009 when a man openly carried a semiautomatic rifle to a Phoenix protest outside a speech by President Barack Obama.

At the Legislature, some female lawmakers with concealed weapons permits have acknowledged carrying guns in their purses despite a state law prohibiting guns in public buildings. Visitors to legislative buildings are supposed to place their weapons in lockboxes.

Last year, Arizona become the third state to make it legal for adults to carry a concealed weapon without getting training and a background check. In 2009, the big change was allowing armed people in bars and restaurants, if they're not drinking alcohol and the establishments haven't posted signs against it.

House Speaker Kirk Adams said last year's bill to legalize carrying concealed weapons without a permit wasn't a mistake.

"Arizona remains a place that is respectful and adamant about our Second Amendment rights, and I think the people of Arizona support that," said Adams, one of 61 Republicans making up two-thirds of the 90-member Legislature.



Former Gov. Janet Napolitano signed several bills supporting gun rights between 2003 and 2008, but the Democrat vetoed others. When Napolitano resigned to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary in 2009, Republican Jan Brewer stepped into the governor's office, and more laws protecting gun owners were made.

Brewer signed bills into law that let people keep guns in locked vehicles at parking lots of businesses that prohibit guns and barred local governments from prohibiting a person with a concealed weapon permit from having a gun in a park.

Gun control proponents hope that the Tucson shooting can create momentum in pushing back against the various pro-weapon bills in the Legislature. They want to pass more regulation of gun shows while prohibiting sales of extended magazines like the one authorities say the suspected shooter used.

Still, Sen. Steve Gallardo, a Phoenix Democrat, acknowledges that such proposals have little to no chances of ever passing, but said "we have to start the education. I would hope that many members of the Legislature see it as a wake-up call."

Sen. Jack Harper, a Republican sponsoring the campus-carry measures, said he didn't want to be seen as trying to take advantage of the Tucson tragedy by citing it as reason to support his legislation, but he said it was vital, given the deadly shootings on university campuses and the Arizona Board of "University professors are tired of feeling like sitting ducks," Harper said.
 
An endless debate that eats up money and resources.

So if they all have guns and are so pro gun out there, why didnt anybody shoot the Crazy guy?

PS- Im a gun guy:thumbsup:
 
not allowed to ccw at a public assembly (political assembly). that's what i've been able to gather lately anyway. there were others in nearby stores who had a weapon, but no one in the immediate vicinity of the shooter.
 
An endless debate that eats up money and resources.

So if they all have guns and are so pro gun out there, why didnt anybody shoot the Crazy guy?

PS- Im a gun guy:thumbsup:

It could be as simple as their just wasn't a shot to take. Maybe what you have is a group of people that were there and armed but just made a decision not to shoot because they could hit a bystander... Just cause you have a gun doesn't mean you can shoot it without repercussions. If I were a betting man it happened so fast no one probably had a chance to deal with the threat and shooting back. It sounds like people tackled the shooter pretty quickly as it all unfolded...

cap
 
It could be as simple as their just wasn't a shot to take. Maybe what you have is a group of people that were there and armed but just made a decision not to shoot because they could hit a bystander... Just cause you have a gun doesn't mean you can shoot it without repercussions. If I were a betting man it happened so fast no one probably had a chance to deal with the threat and shooting back. It sounds like people tackled the shooter pretty quickly as it all unfolded...

cap

Understandable, I for one would be very hesitant to pull the trigger with dozens of people around.
 
Well the only people impacted by gun control legislation are law abiding citizens. The shooter in Tucson would have carried out the same actions regardless of the law, obviously ; it is against the law to do what he did, however he did it.
 
Well the only people impacted by gun control legislation are law abiding citizens. The shooter in Tucson would have carried out the same actions regardless of the law, obviously ; it is against the law to do what he did, however he did it.
Try telling that to the hysterical, whiny, anti-gun lobby.
 
It could be as simple as their just wasn't a shot to take. Maybe what you have is a group of people that were there and armed but just made a decision not to shoot because they could hit a bystander... Just cause you have a gun doesn't mean you can shoot it without repercussions. If I were a betting man it happened so fast no one probably had a chance to deal with the threat and shooting back. It sounds like people tackled the shooter pretty quickly as it all unfolded...

cap

Understandable, I for one would be very hesitant to pull the trigger with dozens of people around.

It takes a special kind of person to pull out a gun and shoot someone. It takes and even more special person to do it in a situation like this and not hurt innocent by standers. Unfortunately, most people with guns aren't that kind of person. Everybody with a gun thinks they can handle the situation, but saddly most can't.

Ask any cop if he thinks a bunch of Law-Abiding-Citizens carrying guns in a situation like this would have made it better or worse.
 
Actually i have read reports while in school (having to do gun control papers in college) that most police officers do like the idea of having a well armed law abiding citizen around. Granted maybe it could have made it worse or better but i carry and i like to think that im a damn good shot but i would hesitate to fire in this situation due to all the innocent bystanders. just my opinion
 
most cops do like citizens having guns

Ha! Maybe some cops where you live do, but I seriously doubt that the majority like it, even in America.

In the country I live in, the cops here are constantly trying to get ALL guns banned, except their own. They do not want anyone to be armed, for any reason whatsoever. Australian cops think that only they should be allowed to shoot people. The Victorian police, on average, kill more people than are murdered each year!
 
Ha! Maybe some cops where you live do, but I seriously doubt that the majority like it, even in America.

In the country I live in, the cops here are constantly trying to get ALL guns banned, except their own. They do not want anyone to be armed, for any reason whatsoever. Australian cops think that only they should be allowed to shoot people. The Victorian police, on average, kill more people than are murdered each year!

Gun ownership in the US is like a hobby/game. I have more or I have bigger. There are alot of cops here who are in the NRA or are avid hunters.

Victoria sound like Albuquerque. Cops here have killed people to prevent them from commiting suicide.
 
Maybe not shoot him from afar but being as close as the ones who tackled him one of them could have done so and saved us a lot of grief and money for his defense .
 
Maybe not shoot him from afar but being as close as the ones who tackled him one of them could have done so and saved us a lot of grief and money for his defense .
In a situation like that, I don't think so, they would of most likely shot the people tackling the guy. Look at video of assassination attempts of past Presidents the Secret Service shield the President and tackle the shooter and these guys are real pros.
 
I would take a pic of all my new 30 round Glock mags...but you get the picture :)
 
Ditto what Captain said ..
As soon as I saw the shooting I ordered 10 more magazines . Some people invest in gold and silver , I invest in mags. and brass.
 
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