So I received a speeding ticket 93 in a 55, mandatory court appearance. Here is the situation, yes i was exceeding the speed limit, but I think I was in the 70's not 90's at that point. There where 2 of us ridding and two FL state troopers, we both got the same speeding ticket from 2 different police. I was 150 feet behind her coming off speed and travelling at a different rate then her. What are the odds of fighting and winning in court? Does anyone know if radar captures your picture or video of the infraction?
So I received a speeding ticket
- Thread starter dfolta
- Start date
Shop for a full time traffic attorney. One that only handles traffic infractions. Depending on where you are, good council should be able to get you out of a radar ticket. I have learned through traffic attorneys that radar is not in-fowl-able. They have weak spots that can be exposed with proper presentation. The attorney I use has beat every radar ticket I've gotten over the past 15 years. He has never lost a radar ticket for any of my friends I've sent to him. Just like most everything else in life, there is no replacement for skill combined with experience. Do your research before you hire an attorney.
TallTom
Registered
Radar is pretty easy to beat but as TUFF pointed out, but you have to know how to argue it. There are lots of factors that make Radar give false readings. Mostly its the RADAR operator that is at fault. But again you have to know how to point that out. If I were in the situation and circumstances you describe, I would argue it. But an attorney would be a better option for you. 93 gets pretty pricey if you go court and don't know what you're doing.
By stating in your post "At that point" tells me you were probably doing it at some point and just hope that you can get out of what was "at a different point". At that speed a lot of distance is being traveled per second. By each bike! The chance that the cop visually got it right once , is pretty unlikely, both times pretty much zero. He just let the gun go off and figured how many tickets to write.
Oh how I don't miss Florida.
By stating in your post "At that point" tells me you were probably doing it at some point and just hope that you can get out of what was "at a different point". At that speed a lot of distance is being traveled per second. By each bike! The chance that the cop visually got it right once , is pretty unlikely, both times pretty much zero. He just let the gun go off and figured how many tickets to write.
Oh how I don't miss Florida.
1busa
Registered
Bottom line is this get a lawyer and not a cheap 1..... meaning if your bathroom is larger than his office you probably wanna go somewhere else. It also helps to get a lawyer that is local, he will have a re pour with the judge and possibly the officers. Every little bit helps and can possibly mean the difference between having a license or not....
my own experience in the states is get a lawyer, I had a court date. I didn't even have to show up he did his job and got it reduced to a parking ticket. let someone fight it for you. My lawyer up here gave me this advice, if they ask if you have anything to say,,say nothing and always fight it.
RedBusarider
Registered
yup - get a lawyer.
Yes it's going to cost you some money but better to get a lower fine now as your traffic record will be with you even after you die.
So get it lowered.
Was the cop within 1500 feet of you? If not you could get it throw out.
Also if you say you were going 70 - do you have a speedohealer.
On my bike 70 indicated is actually about 65. So if yours is like mine then you might have been going even slower then you thought.
2 state police - could have been a speed trap? ???
How likely is it that you both would get the same ticket? You each got a ticket from a different cop, right?
Yet the speeds are identical? Not to likely.
Spend the money on the lawyer not on the ticket if at all possible. The lawyer might have had a case just like yours and that experience could be worth a lot.
Yes it's going to cost you some money but better to get a lower fine now as your traffic record will be with you even after you die.
So get it lowered.
Was the cop within 1500 feet of you? If not you could get it throw out.
Also if you say you were going 70 - do you have a speedohealer.
On my bike 70 indicated is actually about 65. So if yours is like mine then you might have been going even slower then you thought.
2 state police - could have been a speed trap? ???
How likely is it that you both would get the same ticket? You each got a ticket from a different cop, right?
Yet the speeds are identical? Not to likely.
Spend the money on the lawyer not on the ticket if at all possible. The lawyer might have had a case just like yours and that experience could be worth a lot.
GNBRETT
Registered
been running radar and laser for almost 19 years now and have been to court countless times and have NEVER lost in court with Radar or Laser. u make it sound as if u get a great traffic attorney it will be beat in court. thats just simply not the case most everywhere in the country.
often lawyers have a great rapport with prosecutors and one hand washes the other in the political arena but its not because the officer was incompetent and his equipment was faulty. if the equipment is up to date with the latest calibration dates and the officer tested the Radar or Laser before using there is little to argue unless the weather was a factor.
you did not specify if you were caught on Radar or Laser. with Laser u can be clocked at 4000 feet away. Radar can go far longer but u can't see that far so it doesn't really matter.
laser does (1) vehicle at a time but quite easy to clock one vehicle in continuous mode and move the pointer to the other vehicle. its instant. there will be no camera if u were coming up from behind but that doesn't mean anything cause no one using radar or laser uses a camera to catch vehicles. a camera just takes a picture and a video doesn't show speed.
remember the latest Radar units have FASTEST speed mode as well as SAME LANE technology. a lot of Radar tickets in the past that were beaten were because the technology of the Radar units was old and out dated and easily defended in court. thats not the case today.
Radar is not easy to beat. thats an old wives tale. and if the radar isn't working properly its not from user error. the unit either works or it doesn't. how do u know what he did? the radar unit can pick up the FASTEST vehicle and the CLOSEST vehicle at the same time so its very easy to get two motorcycles that are 150 feet apart. u get the one thats closest and the one thats fastest. its not rocket science.
GNBRETT
Registered
where do get 1500 feet from? thats a little more then a 1/4 mile. so what? tickets can and are given out at those distances all the time. especially on the highway. and random speed traps are completely legal. just as random DUI check points are.
rockethead
Registered
either way you are going to spend a good bit. sucks, hope you two don't get screwed too bad
cheferman65
Registered
93 in a 55... Since you and your GF are not in jail with your rides impounded, I would say you got your break. Take your licking , pay the fine, do traffic school and move on with your life.
Since you and your GF are not in jail with your rides impounded, I would say you got your break. Take your licking , pay the fine, do traffic school and move on with your life.
Can you elaborate on the factors of the weather affecting radar? I know each judge used to ask how the weather was and if it was a clear day on a radar ticket, and you didn't see too many police running radar in the rain or bad weather. Today, state cars run radar in just about any weather including heavy rain. A lot of them have gone to lazer but I still see some of the older units being run.
I've talked to some of them that have said they just didn't want to run radar in the rain to avoid standing out there writing a ticket but I've always felt there could be some discrepancies in the readings with foul weather.
Explain more how that works please. I'm trying to comprehend how the readout is showing two at once...are there two numbers on the unit? I know a little more how the lazer works (I think) but how do you tell which it's picking up on the radar unit?
TallTom
Registered
No it's not Rocket science. You just described common errors for measurement. The Cosine Effect. One is closer and the other is faster so the angle of cosine has to be calculated for both. Thus enabling an error in calculation for both since it is averaging two cosines at once or using one cosine for both vehicles. The greater the cosine angle the greater the speed error and the lower the measured speed. A cosine angle of 90° has 100% error, speed measures zero.
Second we have the shadowing error, which occurs when a moving radar gun picks up the speed of a slow-moving vehicle and mistakes it for the ground speed. This causes oncoming traffic to be measured inaccurately fast. Then we have the shadowing error. This is typical when there is larger target present when clocking smaller targets. An example would be a large slower moving truck or car. The radar may briefly "mistake" the truck/car for the ground speed thereby giving a low patrol speed on the radar which in turn can cause a target speed of an opposing smaller vehicle to register too high.
As for the 1500 feet rule. Which may be statute in some states I do not know. But the principle of that is based the fact that a smaller target will need to be closer to the radar in order to be clocked. An aerodynamically shaped vehicle will present a slightly smaller target for the radar and will likewise need to be closer to the radar before being clocked.
But what has been fundamentally left out and almost always never done correctly, is the officer is to visually with his own trained eyeballs, track and determine the speed of a vehicle before verifying his measurement with a secondary source. In this case a Radar gun. So at that speed (95) there is a LOT of ground being covered. And this requires an officer determine a fixed point of reference to start the track from and then track sufficiently long enough a vehicle to determine with a certain amount of confidence the speed BEFORE using the Radar gun to verify it. And 95% of the time that is how they will be defeated in court. A good time/distance question and answer session in court will usually do the cop in. Hard enough to do one vehicle. Let alone two cops yielding the exactly the same result for 2 vehicles. 95 MPH is 380 feet per second. To establish a visual confirmation, if the cop is Einsteins descendant, which trust me they aren't, would require say 4-5 seconds. 380x4.5 =1710 feet. That is almost a quarter of a mile down the road minimum that the cop has to pick you out a target, determine it's speed and THEN use the Radar Gun to verify that speed. By the time the cop has tried to carry over the ones in his math, you have already passed them. So they never actually correctly visually track you, they simply see a target that is going fast, point the gun at it, write down whatever the gun reads, despite the fact that there could be any number of errors of measurement from above. Or if they have it on audio, wait for it to go off and then look up, and start writing tickets. Its much simpler this way. And also not of legal standing. The Radar gun is more reliable and faster at calculating speed than any cop is, but the law generally requires, and I know for fact it does in Florida, that the OFFICER is the primary source for speed measurement reference, FOLLOWED by the engagement of a speed measuring device. If they ever successfully make it through a time/distance testimony, you still have the above error possibilities that they have to sufficiently prove could not have taken place. All you need is a reasonable doubt as to how accurate the speed measurement was. If you have the judge's ear, it is pretty easy almost all of the time.
In Florida it was common to see tickets being written for the same speed for several vehicles in the the same given area and time. Bring that to light in court (easy to do) and they are toast.
I believe radar is designed to be most accurate when reflected off of a license plate. Isn't the nose shape of a sport bike sometimes a little more difficult to get a quick accurate reading if shot head on?
Salty
Registered
I got popped for a 97 in a 55 blanket ticket written out to 9 bikes in a row. We all took it to court with a few different attorneys representing us. The first rider took the big hit acknowledging the speed. Plead down to 80 hours community service, defensive driving class, 6 months supervised probation and 2 years unsupervised.
My attorney plead my down initially to 40 hours community service, defensive driving class and 1 year unsupervised probation along with $60 court costs.
My Chief Petty Officer got it all dropped due to my being a few weeks shy of shipping off to basic training and being off the streets for at least 54 weeks of training, A school and C school.
Get a good attorney who knows the prosecuting attorney and you should be able to get some sort of reduction in charges. Good luck...
My attorney plead my down initially to 40 hours community service, defensive driving class and 1 year unsupervised probation along with $60 court costs.
My Chief Petty Officer got it all dropped due to my being a few weeks shy of shipping off to basic training and being off the streets for at least 54 weeks of training, A school and C school.
Get a good attorney who knows the prosecuting attorney and you should be able to get some sort of reduction in charges. Good luck...
TallTom
Registered
Radar not so much. It is looking for the largest area of returned signal. It uses microwave signal. The larger the size of bounced back signal, the better the measurement it can make. And it always defaults to the largest returned signal first. Lidar would be the License plate theory because it is more "reflective light" back to the source. It uses light waves as its means or measurement Flat paint schemes don't reflect back signal very well. But license plates are always very reflective.
In the case of a bike, the Lidar operator, they would try for a headlight on the bike. Still requiring "VISUAL" measurement of speed by officer first!
GNBRETT
Registered
predominantly its fog that causes interference. humidity in the air decreases the propagation of the radar microwaves so the signal reaching the radar unit is weaker under foggy conditions and therefore less reliable.
K band which is the most common band used which is usually (24GHz) which is near the frequency of water vapor which is around (22GHz). my own personal radar unit uses KA which is a more advanced band but most use K band. This effects pickup but does not necessarily affect the accuracy of the radar itself. the cop MAY not pickup up an earlier signal since the water vapor absorbs the output signal and return signal.
but you also have to remember that a cop when running Radar has to visibly track the vehicle as he confirms it on the unit itself. Radar units have a doppler signal that gives a higher pitched signal with increased speed so its really (3) things goin on. the visual of the vehicle, the visual of the unit and the audible of the doppler.
when rain and fog are present its nearly impossible to watch the vehicle which of course you wud have to do cause you have to decipher between which vehicle you are tracking. if the Radar unit has same lane technology it will only track the vehicle goin in one direction. on most roads u have vehicles going say north and south. if u have same lane technology u can turn off the southbound lane for example and only monitor the northbound traffic lane.
without this it becomes very difficult to decipher if the vehicle ur Radar unit is tracking is coming towards you or going away from you. it will track both if u don't have this technology. of course if its a one lane road with vehicles goin in only one direction then it doesn't matter but thats pretty rare.
so weather absolutely affects the validity of the use of radar and can and shud be contested in court if a ticket was issued during poor weather.
a cop is able to receive an earlier signal on a cold night wen no atmospheric moisture is present. In colder temps there is less moisture in the air unlike hot weather therefore wen its cold the Radar will shoot much further.
if the cop is using KA band it can pick up vehicle up to 5 miles away. I have a friend who is an Oklahoma Trooper and says he picks up trucks for several minutes before he can even see them. he won't write till he can track but its pretty amazing how far they can reach on a flat stretch of road with no dips in the road.
as far as FASTEST lane and CLOSEST lane technology basically there are three windows in a unit capable with this. the third window is ur target speed window. not all units have this tho. many don't cause their more expensive.
older radar units without this technology wud simply pick up the vehicle with the largest mass. now it can pick up the vehicle that is closest and which is fastest. when the fastest vehicle becomes the closest vehicle the windows switch and the fastest becomes the closest so yes you can track two vehicles at once but I wud never issue two tickets at once cause its pretty hard to stop two vehicles at once. I wud simply stop the one goin fastest even if the other was above the posted limit.
ppl often say what about the other vehicle that was speeding.... I tell them sorry I can only stop one at a time and its YOU that was going the fastest.
radar doesn't reflect off a plate. it reflects off the vehicle itself. the nose shape of a motorcycle does make it a little more difficult to get a reading but thats more reserved with laser cause the MC is a smaller mass therefore harder to point the red dot on a laser unit on a MC.
02BusaMark
Registered
During our fall ride last year, 12 of us were pulled over down in Kerrville, TX and the officer gave the front two riders tickets. He was sitting under a tree at the bottom of the hill on the opposite side of the road facing us as we came over the hill on one of the Three Sisters.
The guys who received tickets mentioned that the radar/laser that the LEO was using could track up to 6 different objects.
The guys who received tickets mentioned that the radar/laser that the LEO was using could track up to 6 different objects.
Similar threads
