Weather Alarmists

zrxmax374 said:
Post # 95... Notenoughtoys introduced 9-11 into the discussion first... since I don't believe assymetrical damage to a high rise building can cause a symmetrical collapse I choose to address it.
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Post #99 has @fallenarch jumping into the mix...he designs such things and as an architect has a little more insight into the dynamics of buildings and how they react to certain forces.

I'd trust his knowledge over all these conspiracy theorists.
 
Bumblebee said:
Post #99 has @fallenarch jumping into the mix...he designs such things and as an architect has a little more insight into the dynamics of buildings and how they react to certain forces.

I'd trust his knowledge over all these conspiracy theorists.
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Thanks for acknowledging that. There were a lot of studies on the WTC collapse in the A/E community that were not political or ideological - they just documented what happened. Note this included an army of building demolition experts who know what happens when they initiate a building collapse. These studies included leading engineers and designers from the firm of Yamasaki, the people who designed the building in the first place.

This event is required reading in the industry and has been since the early reports became available. The main takeaway for those who are responsible for the lives of the people who will inhabit our designs is that relatively light exoskeletons on tall buildings make them more vulnerable to fire damage than more traditional building structural systems with heavier critical structural elements (in layman's terms, light building elements are closer to failure even though they meet the hour requirements for fire resistance). It's also notable that they have run countless computer models of the collapse and have determined it is absolutely possible for it to have happened exactly as it did. The bigger question is do we spend piles of money designing buildings for the rare conditions of 9/11 or do we focus on preventing this sort of hijacking??

Focus on what we call "ignorance theories" overlooks the true oddities of the 9/11 event. The most obvious being why did we not elevate warnings when we knew terrorists were taking flying lessons in this country and didn't want to know how to land. And why did we not take security measures when we had intelligence that terrorists were planning to fly planes into buildings.

Conspiracy theorists have long been seen as barely stable, obsessive people who create a mythology for the things they don't understand - Zrxmax is a classic example. They are smart enough to realize inconsistencies, yet not smart enough to resolve the things that are counterintuitive. Science establishes a hypothesis, then works to prove or disprove it, eventually establishing truth. Conspiracies establish a myth filter then look at all information through that filter so they can quickly diverge from reality. Somehow a good-sized minority of the population has bought into equating facts with myth and this is very dangerous in a complex modern world.
 
fallenarch said:
Thanks for acknowledging that. There were a lot of studies on the WTC collapse in the A/E community that were not political or ideological - they just documented what happened. Note this included an army of building demolition experts who know what happens when they initiate a building collapse. These studies included leading engineers and designers from the firm of Yamasaki, the people who designed the building in the first place.

This event is required reading in the industry and has been since the early reports became available. The main takeaway for those who are responsible for the lives of the people who will inhabit our designs is that relatively light exoskeletons on tall buildings make them more vulnerable to fire damage than more traditional building structural systems with heavier critical structural elements (in layman's terms, light building elements are closer to failure even though they meet the hour requirements for fire resistance). It's also notable that they have run countless computer models of the collapse and have determined it is absolutely possible for it to have happened exactly as it did. The bigger question is do we spend piles of money designing buildings for the rare conditions of 9/11 or do we focus on preventing this sort of hijacking??

Focus on what we call "ignorance theories" overlooks the true oddities of the 9/11 event. The most obvious being why did we not elevate warnings when we knew terrorists were taking flying lessons in this country and didn't want to know how to land. And why did we not take security measures when we had intelligence that terrorists were planning to fly planes into buildings.

Conspiracy theorists have long been seen as barely stable, obsessive people who create a mythology for the things they don't understand - Zrxmax is a classic example. They are smart enough to realize inconsistencies, yet not smart enough to resolve the things that are counterintuitive. Science establishes a hypothesis, then works to prove or disprove it, eventually establishing truth. Conspiracies establish a myth filter then look at all information through that filter so they can quickly diverge from reality. Somehow a good-sized minority of the population has bought into equating facts with myth and this is very dangerous in a complex modern world.
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Interesting observation... and a nice way of pigeon holing me. No worries though... it is simply the opinion you and others share. If you stand back and focus on the bigger picture of what the fallout was from 9-11 and after the fact you start to see a lot more than buildings that collapsed.

The media played a huge part in setting the spin narrative immediately with Paul Bremmer who went on the record with details that included all the buzz words that are used to describe Islamic terrorist. Mr Bremmer went on to play an important role with the invasion of Iraq a couple of years later. Funny how all of that works. Paul was suppose to be in a meeting that morning in the Towers but somehow missed that meeting. Perhaps his TV interview and information dissemination took priority the day before.

We have a lot of witnesses who were there that know what explosions sound and feel like... like 118 of them. I defer to Eric Lawyer for the details. Some people were killed and or injured by these blast before the buildings came down.

In the account of William Rodriegez who was on second level basement floor of the North Tower the first explosion took place just seconds before the plane hit at the 95th floor. No amount of explaining is going to make that event just disappear. William knew a large explosion happened below him because the floor rose briefly in the area he was standing and he estimated it was 2 to 3 inches. The sound level was also on the loud side. Within a few minutes somebody arrived from the machine shop below and said it was destroyed while their burned skin was evident on their face and arms. It was only seconds after the downstairs explosion that the plane crashed into the 95th floor. William didn't know the source of the sound and vibrations coming from above, however, he knew it was substantial from his vantage point.
Williams was celebrated as a hero and invited to attend a White House dinner with President George Bush and those pictures exist that document that evening in the wake of 9-11. However, William would not quit talking about the explosions he witnessed while he was said to have saved the lives of at least 27 people that were trapped in the building that morning. The White House more or less uninvited him from that point going forward. Real heros are sometimes discouraged from telling their experiences.

9-11 was a financial crime with huge amounts of spending in its wake as well as some good ole 4th A violations lasting for the time being. Snowden can explain the 4th A violations for you.

You can discount the experts that say things you don't agree with... and I never expect you or anybody here to change their minds... you have too much invested in what you believe. All I say is look at the evidence and look at the behavior of the people surrounding the events back then and going forward until now.

Jim Corbett, an investigative journalist has exposed the financial crimes... but... most people here will probably tend to cover their eyes and not evaluate it. The post 9-11 world shows us how gullible most people are... the powers that be want to keep scaring you until you obey their every command.
Have you been vaccinated yet? Has the vaccine been fully approved yet? Is it still considered experimental by the highly touted FDA yet? Do you feel lucky that you got your injection if you did?

Whatever happened to the story from 9-10-01 when Rumsfeld announced 2.3 trillion could not be accounted for inside the DOD budget? How convenient that the accounting department inside the Pentagon was hit by "something" on the morning of 9-11. Add to that Rumsfeld is out there helping the 1st responders outside the building... I guess he knew that no ground based attack was possible and his highest calling wasn't to monitor any attacks that could be launched nearby... some people just know what is happening in the area though they are not at their desk with all the channels of communication they have there that are available to the Secretary of Defence. Doesn't that make you wonder what he knows? The Secretary of Defence has abandoned his office to be a grunt on the ground outside. See what I mean about behavior?

Eventually the 2.3 trillion became a laughing matter for Rumy and the top brass along with a few high ranking politicians that sat together and inquired about where the 2.3 trillion went. This meeting took place somewhere inside the Capitol building after 9-11. You can see it if you look for it.

This is just a small portion of what my memory holds that points to the inconsistencies on that day and the days, weeks and years afterwards.
 
I must have posted up too many myths!

Gee whiz.... I also forgot how flimsy 110,000 tons of structural steel per building are when bolted and welded together. Even the cold steel well below the impact zones came apart like dominos stacked vertically while 99% of the 4 inch thick concrete floors dissolved into dust. Do you know anything about the level of energy required to crush concrete into dust? Eyewitnesses said that during the cleanup hardly a piece of concrete the size of your fist could be found. The only exception to that was where steel and concrete fused together under heat so high that these elements melted into lumps that could only be described as asteroid like... like melted globs of unobtanium...

Did you ever see the video of columns wavering like flimsy poles that were hundreds of feet tall right after the south tower fell? They didn't fall over like a tree being cut down. Instead, they fell vertically in an instant and appeared to dissolve into dust as they fell. I am pretty sure You Tube buried that video years ago.

The bigger the lies and the more often they are repeated the faster they are accepted as truth by the ignorant unpaid masses. Where have you heard that before?

The feds have been paying for pseudo science experts to produce data that supports their position for decades... but.... who cares? Just watch the lying clown show in DC and accept all the new programs and money printing they can produce... JB has to be feeling the wrath of Kamala and Nancy by now... they both hate real men. JB is a wimp... example... notice how it went with Putin the other day.
 
zrxmax374 said:
I must have posted up too many myths!

Gee whiz.... I also forgot how flimsy 110,000 tons of structural steel per building are when bolted and welded together. Even the cold steel well below the impact zones came apart like dominos stacked vertically while 99% of the 4 inch thick concrete floors dissolved into dust. Do you know anything about the level of energy required to crush concrete into dust? Eyewitnesses said that during the cleanup hardly a piece of concrete the size of your fist could be found. The only exception to that was where steel and concrete fused together under heat so high that these elements melted into lumps that could only be described as asteroid like... like melted globs of unobtanium...

Did you ever see the video of columns wavering like flimsy poles that were hundreds of feet tall right after the south tower fell? They didn't fall over like a tree being cut down. Instead, they fell vertically in an instant and appeared to dissolve into dust as they fell. I am pretty sure You Tube buried that video years ago.

The bigger the lies and the more often they are repeated the faster they are accepted as truth by the ignorant unpaid masses. Where have you heard that before?

The feds have been paying for pseudo science experts to produce data that supports their position for decades... but.... who cares? Just watch the lying clown show in DC and accept all the new programs and money printing they can produce... JB has to be feeling the wrath of Kamala and Nancy by now... they both hate real men. JB is a wimp... example... notice how it went with Putin the other day.
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LOL

I give you this. You have no problem losing total credibility around here, you believe in yourself no matter what is universally accepted as totally different. I actually admire that level of self confidence, even though it destroys your reputation.

And then there are those who continue to debate with you, absolutely amazing.
 
jellyrug said:
LOL

I give you this. You have no problem losing total credibility around here, you believe in yourself no matter what is universally accepted as totally different. I actually admire that level of self confidence, even though it destroys your reputation.

And then there are those who continue to debate with you, absolutely amazing.
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I have no credibility issues as you suggest... I feel sorry for all the good folks that enjoy the passionate thrill of riding motorcycles and yet have somehow succumbed the the multi billion propaganda industry that shows no sign of slowing down with its disinformation, wokeness promotion, and constant lies coming from the media... tell me you haven't figured out BLM and Antifa are simply loosely run by the leftist / marxist cabal of sociopathic influencers working behind the scenes. You only have to understand how media has evolved in the last 100 years to know something has run afoul in this world. From the brilliant minds of authors like Mark Twain and Will Rodgers and others to more recent example like G Edward Griffin, Jim Marrs as well as a number of comedians that have in their own way diced up and spit out the status quo of over valued celebrities like Ricky Gervais did when he took down the Hollywood elite... This country has been greatly distorted in its principles and values. If not so.... then why do we have all this cultural and political turmoil happening non stop?

9-11 is just another example of how embolden the elites are as they attempt to rule the world like it a episode of King of Thrones... the old questions comes again and again and again... is life imitating art, or, is it the opposite?

Guys like you have never taken the time to see what's really going on under the cover of those sociopaths that are experts at keeping secrets. The good news it the internet has changed that considerably and will for the time being.... nothing a partial internet shutdown couldn't fix like they have in China.

I put out a few of the names that lead to the sources where you can look and decide for yourself... if you choose not to look and open your mind long enough to consider what lays before your eyes then that tells us your mind is made up and no new information will make you budge from your opinion.

I am just the messenger... It appears new information is not real... its all fake.... just like when Bush and Cheney went behind closed doors in 2006 to tell a committee what they knew about 9-11. What were the conditions for that tell all? No reporters, not under oath, and no recordings.... gee whiz Gomer.... nothing to see here! Why did it happen in the first place? Because the outrage regarding 911 was sill circulating... so they made a token effort to appease the families of the victims... another crap show by 2 insiders that new exactly what was happening. What was the brother of George Bush... aka... Marvin Bushes job on 911? You don't know and will never look into it, yet, in a couple clicks on Google... there it is.
 
zrxmax374 said:
I have no credibility issues as you suggest... I feel sorry for all the good folks that enjoy the passionate thrill of riding motorcycles and yet have somehow succumbed the the multi billion propaganda industry that shows no sign of slowing down with its disinformation, wokeness promotion, and constant lies coming from the media... tell me you haven't figured out BLM and Antifa are simply loosely run by the leftist / marxist cabal of sociopathic influencers working behind the scenes. You only have to understand how media has evolved in the last 100 years to know something has run afoul in this world. From the brilliant minds of authors like Mark Twain and Will Rodgers and others to more recent example like G Edward Griffin, Jim Marrs as well as a number of comedians that have in their own way diced up and spit out the status quo of over valued celebrities like Ricky Gervais did when he took down the Hollywood elite... This country has been greatly distorted in its principles and values. If not so.... then why do we have all this cultural and political turmoil happening non stop?

9-11 is just another example of how embolden the elites are as they attempt to rule the world like it a episode of King of Thrones... the old questions comes again and again and again... is life imitating art, or, is it the opposite?

Guys like you have never taken the time to see what's really going on under the cover of those sociopaths that are experts at keeping secrets. The good news it the internet has changed that considerably and will for the time being.... nothing a partial internet shutdown couldn't fix like they have in China.

I put out a few of the names that lead to the sources where you can look and decide for yourself... if you choose not to look and open your mind long enough to consider what lays before your eyes then that tells us your mind is made up and no new information will make you budge from your opinion.

I am just the messenger... It appears new information is not real... its all fake.... just like when Bush and Cheney went behind closed doors in 2006 to tell a committee what they knew about 9-11. What were the conditions for that tell all? No reporters, not under oath, and no recordings.... gee whiz Gomer.... nothing to see here! Why did it happen in the first place? Because the outrage regarding 911 was sill circulating... so they made a token effort to appease the families of the victims... another crap show by 2 insiders that new exactly what was happening. What was the brother of George Bush... aka... Marvin Bushes job on 911? You don't know and will never look into it, yet, in a couple clicks on Google... there it is.
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Sorry, the politics threads are in another part of the forum...somehow it always seems to spill out everywhere else...
 
My name was Paul Revere in a past life... lol !

Politics.... that word should be redefined as a cuss word... I have never seen so few muck it up for so many in my life.

There is no big picture perspective when you have nothing to compare it too.... the bubble lives on....

My agenda is simply to get people to think... but... apparently that ship already sailed...

Take the example of Jim Marrs. He wrote the book Crossfire and released it in 1988. What happened after that? In 1991 the movie JFK was released starring Kevin Costner. What did Hollywood and Oliver Stone focus on in that movie? It was to re establish Oswald did it and kill the doubts about Oswald shooting JFK from the School book depository that was behind JFK when he was hit. This is what the book Crossfire clearly pointed out. What do you see in the Zapruder film and the autopsy pictures? A shot to the front of JFKs head and the back of his head blown out... and then you tell me I am a conspiracy theorist.

Here is the issue... you can't even believe what your eyes see in multiple frames and still photographs...now... who are the conspiracy theorist?

You can always compare the Nix film to the Zapruder film... in the Zaprider film the car never stops or even slows down... in the Nix film the car almost stops for the kill shot before speeding away... how can you tell ? The motorcycle cop behind the limo has to stop to keep from running into it. There it is... all these years later right in front of your face... and yet... killing a sitting president and getting justice for his murder is squelched to the bitter end even after 50 years. Even president Trump ( whom you despise ) attempted to get the records released and unredacted well after the 50 year limit to release the records was suppose to happen for all too see.

See what I mean about lying in spades to the American people? I am taking bets with anybody that will put their money down and state that what I am saying is a lie... any takers?

If people can get away with killing a president... what else do you think they are capable of when it comes to trillions of dollars to be made on wars and other boondoggles?

Too much traction now... eh? lol !
 
No takers on any bets big or small.... yet... hmmm... I guess some peoples eyes can't see the truth because too actually become aware of it would disrupt the belief system people have invested their entire life in... and it is too much to deal with.

You can't say I didn't try to wake a few people up... its all out there if you know where to look.
CNN, MSNBC, CBS NBC and ABC are still the beacons of MSM truth now....
 
fallenarch said:
Pancaked straight down.
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It sounds like a sink hole developed under part of the structures. It also appears salt water contributed to the buildings collapse through the corrosion to the steel supporting the structure. Inspections were taking place at the time, however, they were not completed yet. Reports of standing water from no known source were also noted in the area just outside the building days before it came down. More will be known soon about how it happened.
 
It appears this building was in trouble for a while. There was considerable settling on the ocean side of the building. There were cracks everywhere in the building's concrete and water coming through them with storms. They apparently settled with a resident for damages. It will be interesting to see what happened here. Deep pile foundations are usually fairly stable ( I assume a building on the beach in FL would be on piles). Someone's in big trouble though as this was apparently not a sudden collapse by early reports.

When something like this happens, there is a flood of activity behind the scene. The A/E of record probably got a call within an hour of the collapse to try and get documents to use in the rescue effort and start the forensic investigation. I suspect that files, maintenance records, and repairs are being poured over for indications of a problem. Not sure how fast the law will get involved but I'm sure interested parties have been notified that destroying any relevant documents is a violation of the law. Lawyers and insurance carriers were called within hours of the collapse.

A firm I worked for in Detroit had a major collapse during the construction of a field house facility (I was not directly involved). The place went on lock-down. We had to sign in and out of the office and we were told not to talk to anyone, especially strangers. Lawyers and the press will walk up to you and try to start a casual conversation with you to try and get information on the collapse.

There are people who need technical information to do the rescue as safely as possible, inspectors trying to determine if the danger is confined to the collapsed building, Law enforcement trying to determine if there is criminality, and vultures looking to make a buck with law suites. What a mess. There are tons of buildings just like this on those beaches down there. Most catastrophic failures like this are a perfect storm of small failures - so the chances of it happening again are slim. But if there is a systemic structural deficiency in the buildings there this could a billion-dollar issue.
 
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