One word:
Skull cap
(ok, so that is two words.. you know what I mean
)
Skull cap
(ok, so that is two words.. you know what I mean
Scorpion Helmets
- Thread starter thrasherfox
- Start date
Two words... Got one...One word:
Skull cap
(ok, so that is two words.. you know what I mean)
One thought though gentleman, you get what you pay for. Sure they are all DOT and SNELL rated, but there are other considerations. Appropriate fit, quality of visors, function of vents, quality of interior materials, etc. A Cheap helmet will allways be that, CHEAP, they are cutting corners somewhere and if you need proof just look at the cheap helmets after about 6 months of use.... Assed up and funky, visors are kinda iffy, etc.
There is a point of diminishing returns however. For instance the Vemar Carbon??? $800
Nope no thanks, looks cool as fug but not worth the extra bones.
On the other side of the coin, Even a Quality Arai RX-7RR4 can be a complete waste of money if you put it on a jackass who's head and it's contents are worth maybe $10. See how that works? The RX-7RR4 WILL NOT FIT all HEAD SHAPES you Rude Fug. So while I like my Arai, I cannot say GO BUY A RX-7RR4, or a SIGNET, OR A FUGGIN ASTRA... Because they just may not fit right...
I still believe ARAI makes the best helmets on the market when it comes to over all safety/quality POV though. But this opinion was formed after doing some reading and some homework. One last tip when choosing a helmet? Look at the helmets worn most by pro racers that DO NOT have a helmet sponsor. What are they wearing? They aren't wearing a freaking HJC, KBC, PMS, IICON, or Scorpio... Unless they are being paid to do so... Just a thought..
However, if you tend to drop and ding your helmets and they get kinda jacked up quickly OR your just not all that fuggin worried about it? Buy ANY helmet with a DOT and SNELL rating and you'll be good to go. It should do it's job. The Extra money for an ARAI or Shoei is largley a comfort/fit thing and a piece of mind thing for me. I know ARAI's are hand made and inspected individually, so I know without a doubt that it will do it's job, I don't know about some of these other helmets...
A lot of folks I have met that ride without a helmet because "They are HOT" or "They are uncomfortable", or Whatever BS they come up with own and tried to use a cheap off the rack helmet that didn't fit properly so they end up with no helmet at all...
My .02
There is a point of diminishing returns however. For instance the Vemar Carbon??? $800
On the other side of the coin, Even a Quality Arai RX-7RR4 can be a complete waste of money if you put it on a jackass who's head and it's contents are worth maybe $10. See how that works? The RX-7RR4 WILL NOT FIT all HEAD SHAPES you Rude Fug. So while I like my Arai, I cannot say GO BUY A RX-7RR4, or a SIGNET, OR A FUGGIN ASTRA... Because they just may not fit right...
I still believe ARAI makes the best helmets on the market when it comes to over all safety/quality POV though. But this opinion was formed after doing some reading and some homework. One last tip when choosing a helmet? Look at the helmets worn most by pro racers that DO NOT have a helmet sponsor. What are they wearing? They aren't wearing a freaking HJC, KBC, PMS, IICON, or Scorpio... Unless they are being paid to do so... Just a thought..
However, if you tend to drop and ding your helmets and they get kinda jacked up quickly OR your just not all that fuggin worried about it? Buy ANY helmet with a DOT and SNELL rating and you'll be good to go. It should do it's job. The Extra money for an ARAI or Shoei is largley a comfort/fit thing and a piece of mind thing for me. I know ARAI's are hand made and inspected individually, so I know without a doubt that it will do it's job, I don't know about some of these other helmets...
A lot of folks I have met that ride without a helmet because "They are HOT" or "They are uncomfortable", or Whatever BS they come up with own and tried to use a cheap off the rack helmet that didn't fit properly so they end up with no helmet at all...
My .02
Why must most people base quality on price?? I've been researching this helmet and found for the most part that's it's a GREAT helmet for the price. The only 3 compliants that I've read are:
* Noisy, but that's the trade off for a lot of air flow (as advertised)
* the decal right above, middle of visor seems like a sticker that can come off over time.
* Hard to locate a dealer that carries them, low on accessories. This I've confirmed by calling 3 dealers that Scorpion listed on their website that's closest to my zip code. Honda of Hollywood only has a handful of the 400 series. Can't blame them since the company is so new
One thing I don't like is: I called Scorpion directly and got confirmation that even the corporate HQ is in Lake Forest, Ca, their stuff are all made in China. But I can't knock that too hard when you consider some of the most popular consumer products now are made in China... Like the Apple iPod.
http://www.motorcyclegearreview.com/reviews.php?prodID=853
Check out the reviews above. 5 stars out of possible 5 stars from 14 out of 14 reviews sounds like a winner to me.
So Slowbusa, where did you get your info for you to say it sucks? Rev, you and I had a similar disagreement on motorcycle oil vs. regular car oil. Hate to head-bump with you again. But I found out that Scorpion helmets are SNELL approved (both 400 and 700 series). From what I've read, just about any brain bucket can get a DOT approval, but isn't the SNELL Foundation approval much harder to get because their minimum standards are that much higher than DOT? This would explain why most of the cheapy HJCs, KBCs, ABCs, etc... are only DOT approved and most of the mid to higher level Shoei, Arai, Suomy, etc... are both DOT & SNELL approved.
Computer generated spokesperson aside (although she is pretty cute for a cartoon), I think I'll pick one up as a second lid. I just have to get a size measurement for this girl that I'm now seeing
Hopefully her head size is close enough to mine so I can swap out whenever I wish.
* Noisy, but that's the trade off for a lot of air flow (as advertised)
* the decal right above, middle of visor seems like a sticker that can come off over time.
* Hard to locate a dealer that carries them, low on accessories. This I've confirmed by calling 3 dealers that Scorpion listed on their website that's closest to my zip code. Honda of Hollywood only has a handful of the 400 series. Can't blame them since the company is so new
One thing I don't like is: I called Scorpion directly and got confirmation that even the corporate HQ is in Lake Forest, Ca, their stuff are all made in China. But I can't knock that too hard when you consider some of the most popular consumer products now are made in China... Like the Apple iPod.
http://www.motorcyclegearreview.com/reviews.php?prodID=853
Check out the reviews above. 5 stars out of possible 5 stars from 14 out of 14 reviews sounds like a winner to me.
So Slowbusa, where did you get your info for you to say it sucks? Rev, you and I had a similar disagreement on motorcycle oil vs. regular car oil. Hate to head-bump with you again. But I found out that Scorpion helmets are SNELL approved (both 400 and 700 series). From what I've read, just about any brain bucket can get a DOT approval, but isn't the SNELL Foundation approval much harder to get because their minimum standards are that much higher than DOT? This would explain why most of the cheapy HJCs, KBCs, ABCs, etc... are only DOT approved and most of the mid to higher level Shoei, Arai, Suomy, etc... are both DOT & SNELL approved.
Computer generated spokesperson aside (although she is pretty cute for a cartoon), I think I'll pick one up as a second lid. I just have to get a size measurement for this girl that I'm now seeing
Hopefully her head size is close enough to mine so I can swap out whenever I wish.
eynlai -
Thanks for doing that research. You research seems to indicate a better helmet than I originally thought it was.
My friend (Mad S.) mentioned they are a new company and there are not a lot of dealers carrying there product yet.
Maybe if he sees this thread he can jump in here, but I think he said the company can offer better pricing and good quality helmets because unlike other company's, Scorpion goes from Manufacture directly to the retailer, where as other company's go from manufacturer, to distributor then to a retailer.
Thanks for doing that research. You research seems to indicate a better helmet than I originally thought it was.
My friend (Mad S.) mentioned they are a new company and there are not a lot of dealers carrying there product yet.
Maybe if he sees this thread he can jump in here, but I think he said the company can offer better pricing and good quality helmets because unlike other company's, Scorpion goes from Manufacture directly to the retailer, where as other company's go from manufacturer, to distributor then to a retailer.
busapilot911
Registered
I am an Arai guy. Great fit, comfort, and I too believe that it is at the top of the list. However, price is a factor for most people. I know it is your head going in it but....
There may actually be very little difference between some of these helmets. I don't think you can base "quality" by price. Part of the reason Arai's and Shoei's are so expensive is because of all of the advertising and "sponsoring" they do. Along with that, using the "up and comer" unsponsored racers as a gauge may be biased. Just like the kids that had to have Michael Jordan stuff.
I truly believe that the best way to rate a helmet is:
1. How it fits (size, comfort)
2. Does it meet DOT/SNELL
3. Is it on your head 100% of the time.
The write ups for that Scorpion lid have all been very positive. Who knows, in a year or two it may cost $600!
There may actually be very little difference between some of these helmets. I don't think you can base "quality" by price. Part of the reason Arai's and Shoei's are so expensive is because of all of the advertising and "sponsoring" they do. Along with that, using the "up and comer" unsponsored racers as a gauge may be biased. Just like the kids that had to have Michael Jordan stuff.
I truly believe that the best way to rate a helmet is:
1. How it fits (size, comfort)
2. Does it meet DOT/SNELL
3. Is it on your head 100% of the time.
The write ups for that Scorpion lid have all been very positive. Who knows, in a year or two it may cost $600!
eynlai--
No worries man, in fact I don't think we are necessarily 180deg on this one.
You ask: Why must most people base quality on price??[/QUOTE]
The answer really is simple, experience. My whole life, when buying ANYTHING, I have found that there is NO free ride. Seems to be universally true. You will get what you pay for... To a point*... Bikes, Cars, Fishing Poles, Knives, Clothes, SHOES, watches, hookers
... By and large you get what you pay for. I mean a $10 hooker will get you to the same end destination that a $1000 hooker will get you right? But all things considered, I will spend the extra money for the $1000 hooker cause I am willing to bet the experience will be much better, more energetic, more fun, (will perform better).
I said: *There is a point of diminishing returns however. For instance the Vemar Carbon??? $800 Nope no thanks, looks cool as fug but not worth the extra bones[/QUOTE]
I drive an Infiniti, it's not flashy but it's got good power, a quiet ride, and a good solid feel. But does it perform it's BASIC function better than a Pontiac Grand Am? Nope, both will get you from start to finish. However, the feel and the experience of the Infiniti is better, more refined, quieter, smoother, better handling, and more solid. So it's NOT a matter of personal preference. It's measurable, quantifiable. We could put a yardstick to em both and say at the end "OK the Infiniti costs $15K more, but you get this better stuff for your extra money. "
Then Compare the Infiniti against BMW, and the same is true yet again. This time when we measure the BMW comes out on top in each category. It does everything better than the Infiniti, but costs $15k more. No worries that extra $ comes back in resale...
But when comparing BMW to Mercedes things get muddy. It's 99% preference, there really cannot be a distinct "Winner" based on value, it's all about preference. One is a little sportier, which one "Fits" or which is a little more solid etc.
There is REAL value here again but the BMW still performs the same basic functions as a Chevy Sprint, It gets you from A-B.
OK, NOW Dude "A" buys a brand new Mercedes S500, Dude "B" buys a new Rolls-Royce costing about $150k more than the Top of line Mercedes. NOW, is the Rolls owner buying for "VALUE"? NO, is the ROLLS $150k better than the MERC? NO, so here (IMO) is where you hit the point of diminishing returns, where further investment will not result in a measurable, quantifiable improvement in the experience.
What I am saying is that there is obviously a point, where spending more money becomes a matter of personal preference not really a quest for more value or superior performance.
*********I AM JUST USING THE ABOVE AS EXAMPLES FOLKS... DON'T START BITCHING, I AM JUST ILLUSTRATING MY POINT***********
OK now bring this to the helmet discussion finally.
I do not believe that ARAI has reached the Point of diminishing returns when compared to less expensive helmets. It will be a measurably safer, better warrantied, better fitting, better vented, lighter, and better supported helmet than just about anything else you will find on the market.
However, I did say: Buy ANY helmet with a DOT and SNELL rating and you'll be good to go. [/QUOTE]
So eynlai, we are not really in dispute over this. In the end if both are SNELL AND DOT rated it means they met the Minimum requirements for both foundations. But I will say that an ARAI will stand up to impacts much better than a cheaper helmet, it will simply work better at protecting your head, above and beyond SNELL and yeah I stake my life on it every time I put it on.
I will argue that ARAI is hand made, and EVERY Arai is hand inspected, Arai is trusted by more professionals in Motorcycle Racing and F1 than any other brand, Arai is still a Japanese family owned and operated company making helmets by hand, they take personal pride in their product, and Arai's customer Service and warranty is tops. Lost a visor cover off my Re-entry, a few calls and bam there it is via fedex, took a week...
I find it strange in a way that ANYONE would look at saving money on something so critical to your survival. Would you buy a car that had "New Inexpensive seat Belts?" or Fly in a plane that was using a "New Less expensive Pilot?†Or a pilot that met the “MINUMUM†requirements?
How about a child seat that while being stain resistant, used cheaper webbing for the belts?
(Or Oil that just barely meets the minimum requirements? He he he sorry..)
I can think of ALOT of other places to save a Buck on things less critical to your life than your helmet.
Now, Having 14 reviewers rate Scorpion highly is cool, no doubt, they could very well be good helmets, I cannot say otherwise having not tried them, but what do ANY of these reviewers you linked to know about how they perform their most critical function??? Where is Scorpion’s 30 or so years of track crash data??? It's about more than saving a buck when it comes to my head and more than ANY other helmet manufacturer out there, I know I can rely on the ARAI on my head to do it's job 100% percent of time, no questions about crappy laminate, poor quality control, or lack of experienced hands in the build process... That combined with the perfect fit (FOR EVERYONE if one model doesn't fit they have others that are shaped differently), smaller exterior shell size, excellent visors, and air flow is worth every penny. Hell I can even get dramatic and say it’s “Pricelessâ€â€¦
I would wonder where Scorpion, HJC, etc.. are cutting costs. What corners are cut? What employees are underpaid enough to no longer care? To meet the price point set by Scorpion. It’s coming outta somewhere… Especially when you consider all of the "NEW Hi-Tech Features"...
Whew, Did you read all of that? I think I make a valid point or two... Sorry for the length...
Rev
No worries man, in fact I don't think we are necessarily 180deg on this one.
You ask: Why must most people base quality on price??[/QUOTE]
The answer really is simple, experience. My whole life, when buying ANYTHING, I have found that there is NO free ride. Seems to be universally true. You will get what you pay for... To a point*... Bikes, Cars, Fishing Poles, Knives, Clothes, SHOES, watches, hookers
I said: *There is a point of diminishing returns however. For instance the Vemar Carbon??? $800 Nope no thanks, looks cool as fug but not worth the extra bones[/QUOTE]
I drive an Infiniti, it's not flashy but it's got good power, a quiet ride, and a good solid feel. But does it perform it's BASIC function better than a Pontiac Grand Am? Nope, both will get you from start to finish. However, the feel and the experience of the Infiniti is better, more refined, quieter, smoother, better handling, and more solid. So it's NOT a matter of personal preference. It's measurable, quantifiable. We could put a yardstick to em both and say at the end "OK the Infiniti costs $15K more, but you get this better stuff for your extra money. "
Then Compare the Infiniti against BMW, and the same is true yet again. This time when we measure the BMW comes out on top in each category. It does everything better than the Infiniti, but costs $15k more. No worries that extra $ comes back in resale...
But when comparing BMW to Mercedes things get muddy. It's 99% preference, there really cannot be a distinct "Winner" based on value, it's all about preference. One is a little sportier, which one "Fits" or which is a little more solid etc.
There is REAL value here again but the BMW still performs the same basic functions as a Chevy Sprint, It gets you from A-B.
OK, NOW Dude "A" buys a brand new Mercedes S500, Dude "B" buys a new Rolls-Royce costing about $150k more than the Top of line Mercedes. NOW, is the Rolls owner buying for "VALUE"? NO, is the ROLLS $150k better than the MERC? NO, so here (IMO) is where you hit the point of diminishing returns, where further investment will not result in a measurable, quantifiable improvement in the experience.
What I am saying is that there is obviously a point, where spending more money becomes a matter of personal preference not really a quest for more value or superior performance.
*********I AM JUST USING THE ABOVE AS EXAMPLES FOLKS... DON'T START BITCHING, I AM JUST ILLUSTRATING MY POINT***********
OK now bring this to the helmet discussion finally.
I do not believe that ARAI has reached the Point of diminishing returns when compared to less expensive helmets. It will be a measurably safer, better warrantied, better fitting, better vented, lighter, and better supported helmet than just about anything else you will find on the market.
However, I did say: Buy ANY helmet with a DOT and SNELL rating and you'll be good to go. [/QUOTE]
So eynlai, we are not really in dispute over this. In the end if both are SNELL AND DOT rated it means they met the Minimum requirements for both foundations. But I will say that an ARAI will stand up to impacts much better than a cheaper helmet, it will simply work better at protecting your head, above and beyond SNELL and yeah I stake my life on it every time I put it on.
I will argue that ARAI is hand made, and EVERY Arai is hand inspected, Arai is trusted by more professionals in Motorcycle Racing and F1 than any other brand, Arai is still a Japanese family owned and operated company making helmets by hand, they take personal pride in their product, and Arai's customer Service and warranty is tops. Lost a visor cover off my Re-entry, a few calls and bam there it is via fedex, took a week...
I find it strange in a way that ANYONE would look at saving money on something so critical to your survival. Would you buy a car that had "New Inexpensive seat Belts?" or Fly in a plane that was using a "New Less expensive Pilot?†Or a pilot that met the “MINUMUM†requirements?
(Or Oil that just barely meets the minimum requirements? He he he sorry..)
I can think of ALOT of other places to save a Buck on things less critical to your life than your helmet.
Now, Having 14 reviewers rate Scorpion highly is cool, no doubt, they could very well be good helmets, I cannot say otherwise having not tried them, but what do ANY of these reviewers you linked to know about how they perform their most critical function??? Where is Scorpion’s 30 or so years of track crash data??? It's about more than saving a buck when it comes to my head and more than ANY other helmet manufacturer out there, I know I can rely on the ARAI on my head to do it's job 100% percent of time, no questions about crappy laminate, poor quality control, or lack of experienced hands in the build process... That combined with the perfect fit (FOR EVERYONE if one model doesn't fit they have others that are shaped differently), smaller exterior shell size, excellent visors, and air flow is worth every penny. Hell I can even get dramatic and say it’s “Pricelessâ€â€¦
I would wonder where Scorpion, HJC, etc.. are cutting costs. What corners are cut? What employees are underpaid enough to no longer care? To meet the price point set by Scorpion. It’s coming outta somewhere… Especially when you consider all of the "NEW Hi-Tech Features"...
Whew, Did you read all of that? I think I make a valid point or two... Sorry for the length...
Rev
Good ponts Rev.... You honestly have me thinking about checking out Arai's damn you!!
Again I have to apologize for the above post under my name. This wasnt me either it was a co-worker getting on this site under my name. I'm not sure how many post he did he said about 5 or six I am only aware of three. If you guys come accorss any other offensive post under SLOWBUSA please contact me immediately. Thank you.
jusmoov
Registered
Quote from Revlis Hookers ... By and large you get what you pay for. I mean a $10 hooker will get you to the same end destination that a $1000 hooker will get you right? But all things considered, I will spend the extra money for the $1000 hooker cause I am willing to bet the experience will be much better, more energetic, more fun, (will perform better).
I like Hookers
I like Hookers
I bought my wife an ICON...
She says it's a little heavier than my SHOEI TZ-1 Shogun but it flows a little better.
THe helmet is DOT and SNELL 2000 certified. I had to see those before I bought it for her.
Just FWIW...
Rev, I'm not disputing that by and large we get what we pay for. But just like anything in life there are exceptions. And sometimes that exception maybe only for a very limited window of opportunity.
Sure there's a minimum standard to get a DOT or SNELL rating. But can one really for sure can tell how much more Arai or Shoei's measurement in crash quality is above and beyond those minimum of SNELL? Wouldn't it be funny that these 2 most popular companies' helmets only met the minimum like you stated? And how exactly can we start judging the worth of the new entrant Scorpion? How can we know for sure that they just met the minimum or that they well exceed it? Coming from a marketing background and formal education, I would say that they maybe simply using the market penetration with price. Specifically they may purposely be willing to price their helmets so low that they either make little to no profit or even operating at a lost just to gain a reputation and a spot in the helmet market.
You bought up Infiniti cars. Don't you remember that when they were very first released by Nissan back in the late 80's to early 90's they were priced just a tad bit above the some of the higher end Nissans. Just like Toyota did with their Lexus. And what happened after a few years when they gain a reputation? They raised their prices. Can anyone accuse them of cutting major corners? I don't recall hearing about it.
Since you like to use hookers as examples. Don't you think a new girl on the block will charge a few bucks less than the next girl and work equally if not harder (no pun intended) than the next girl that's established... Just so she can get a steady clientele list build? I know I would if I was a girl and wanted to go into that professional. And yes, I do think it's a professional. They don't call it the Oldest in the World for nothing.
I'm willing to give anyone or any company a chance if they are showing that they deserve it. And from the personal reviews of real life riders that have bought it... I would give Scorpion a chance. I don't trust "professional" reviewers like magazines... Too many reasons for them to be bias one way or the other. But I do trust the opinions of the next rider. And once again, I would like to say, '5 stars out of possible 5 stars from 14 reviews out of 14 reviews, is a winner in my book'
Oh, and just in case you want to go there... yes, those reveiws were on the comfort and features of Scorpion helmets. But as you said, isn't that the distingushing difference between a higher price, well known helmet compared to the cheapy KBCs or HJCs? OR a Pontiac Grand Am compared to a BMW 530?
Sure there's a minimum standard to get a DOT or SNELL rating. But can one really for sure can tell how much more Arai or Shoei's measurement in crash quality is above and beyond those minimum of SNELL? Wouldn't it be funny that these 2 most popular companies' helmets only met the minimum like you stated? And how exactly can we start judging the worth of the new entrant Scorpion? How can we know for sure that they just met the minimum or that they well exceed it? Coming from a marketing background and formal education, I would say that they maybe simply using the market penetration with price. Specifically they may purposely be willing to price their helmets so low that they either make little to no profit or even operating at a lost just to gain a reputation and a spot in the helmet market.
You bought up Infiniti cars. Don't you remember that when they were very first released by Nissan back in the late 80's to early 90's they were priced just a tad bit above the some of the higher end Nissans. Just like Toyota did with their Lexus. And what happened after a few years when they gain a reputation? They raised their prices. Can anyone accuse them of cutting major corners? I don't recall hearing about it.
Since you like to use hookers as examples. Don't you think a new girl on the block will charge a few bucks less than the next girl and work equally if not harder (no pun intended) than the next girl that's established... Just so she can get a steady clientele list build? I know I would if I was a girl and wanted to go into that professional. And yes, I do think it's a professional. They don't call it the Oldest in the World for nothing.
I'm willing to give anyone or any company a chance if they are showing that they deserve it. And from the personal reviews of real life riders that have bought it... I would give Scorpion a chance. I don't trust "professional" reviewers like magazines... Too many reasons for them to be bias one way or the other. But I do trust the opinions of the next rider. And once again, I would like to say, '5 stars out of possible 5 stars from 14 reviews out of 14 reviews, is a winner in my book'
Oh, and just in case you want to go there... yes, those reveiws were on the comfort and features of Scorpion helmets. But as you said, isn't that the distingushing difference between a higher price, well known helmet compared to the cheapy KBCs or HJCs? OR a Pontiac Grand Am compared to a BMW 530?
Good points from all. Here's a bit of info that I got from the Scorpion rep at the open house the other day that could account for part of the price difference. He told me that Scorpion sells directly to their dealers. They don't channel their stuff through distributors, warehouses, other "middle men". He said that's one of the key ways that they hit the price mark they were shootin' for. Less folks are takin' a cut out of the pie before it gets to the end user. Makes sense...
And yeah, I know... It was the Scorpion rep that told me this. Could be bs, I know... Could also be true, too. My local dealer had a ton of 'em at the open house and all the ones I looked at seemed to be of excellent quality based on fit & finish and design. I still think I'm gonna give the Scorpion a try if they fit my head. I'll do a more thorough comparison between the Scorpion and other lids by Shoei and Arai before I make a final decision.
Ultimately though, in all honesty I will likely base my decision on what feels best on my head. Regardless of it's cost, a helmet that isn't comfortable is just unacceptable. I won't ride without one, but I don't plan on ridin' with an uncomfortable one just because it's a high dollar and popular model. I don't want the distraction of constantly worryin' about how my lid fits when ridin'. I'd rather put that attention on ridin' and the road.
And yeah, I know... It was the Scorpion rep that told me this. Could be bs, I know... Could also be true, too. My local dealer had a ton of 'em at the open house and all the ones I looked at seemed to be of excellent quality based on fit & finish and design. I still think I'm gonna give the Scorpion a try if they fit my head. I'll do a more thorough comparison between the Scorpion and other lids by Shoei and Arai before I make a final decision.
Ultimately though, in all honesty I will likely base my decision on what feels best on my head. Regardless of it's cost, a helmet that isn't comfortable is just unacceptable. I won't ride without one, but I don't plan on ridin' with an uncomfortable one just because it's a high dollar and popular model. I don't want the distraction of constantly worryin' about how my lid fits when ridin'. I'd rather put that attention on ridin' and the road.
eynlai, good points all around. I agree there are some exceptions.
And how exactly can we start judging the worth of the new entrant Scorpion? How can we know for sure that they just met the minimum or that they well exceed it? [/QUOTE]
This is exactly my point, there is no evidence, no history, and no real world results to look at and go hmm, “people wearing Scorpion Helmets have few serious head injuriesâ€. NOTHING, SAME for IICON, HJC, And the other Bargain bin offerings.
Arai has decades of experience and data straight from the road and track.
As a "Formally Educated person with a Marketing Background" you know that companies will cut corners EVERYWHERE they think they can get away with it to make a buck. Reduce material expenses, reduce amounts of a given product, etc… Right up to the point where they get complaints or law suits. Let's look at IIcon and Joe Rocket, Cheap and affordable is the bottom line... Sure clever Marketing to the Masses and targeted imagery will sell, but does the gear work? HELL, JUST ASK A REP? OR LOOK AT THEIR FUGGING WEBSITE!!!! Of Course that is to be believed. Joe Rocket has a huge list of folks espousing the "Lifesaving Technology" of their Joe Rocket gear... So it must be true!!! But first hand experience tells me their gloves shred, and the protection offered from their mesh products is minimal. BUT (Better than a t-shirt)...
Bottom line you never hear about other companies Helmets failing to perform because the wearers are to busy drooling on themselves, being spoon fed, and settling outta court for a couple Million$$$...
Why because they can make a lot more money this way…
Yeah I know just running my mouth... it's a personal thing. It's placing a price on your brain; it's a matter of being able to recognize Value based on something OTHER THAN Dollar figures... Price is a consideration, but should not be the bottom line... Especially when we are talking about something your life depends on.
WARNING Caffeine Rant ahead ---
Americans are the KINGS of purchasing what’s cheap while chanting all along how it’s “Just as good†as the more expensive one… Which leading us back to the Hookers, just isn’t the case. The fresh, young new Girl on the corner is getting TOP DOLLAR cause she is as yet not all wrinkly and wore out and the High End call girl will provide a much more enjoyable experience than a streetwalker. You can also still buy a Low End Infiniti for a bit less than several Models of Nissans… Same as it has always been…
<span style='color:firebrick'>We can test the Hooker theory, you take a $20 and go pick up a street girl, I’ll take $500 and call a local Escort service. Then we’ll come back and give our reports.</span>
Anyway, I can look at an HJC and say emphatically it's not worth potting a plant. Same for IIcon, and a couple others. I cannot say Scorpion falls into that category as I haven't touched one or messed with one yet. But I can be supremely skeptical based on the Marketing Hype and Price. Sure Market Penetration and name Recognition is important but it's also another Bullsh!d tool used to push products out the door with promises of <span style='color:crimson'>"limited Time Opportunityâ€,</span>or <span style='color:red'>“NEWâ€.</span> Hell, Where’s the Fresh Lemon Scent?
Folks eat this sh!t up.
I have learned over the years how effective a clever campaign or package can be. And this Dr. Nikki Sloan is a classic… Bust out the T and A, Make it look like it’s REALLY EXPENSIVE, offer it at a “BARGAIN†price, make it shine, Hype the NEW FEATURES and watch them fly off the shelves… Christ your selling products to a population where “REALITY TELEVISION†is the biggest thing on TV and about all fugwits can chitter about… Where the H2 Abomination is selling briskly, where the BREAST Implant was Invented, and folks will spend THOUSANDS for Fake ass IMAGE... regardless of Substance… FUG me, it’s a Marketing Guys Wet Dream… Unsophisticated Consumers with extra Money and no ability to discern VALUE or PRICE… Yeah NOW I am being an ass, but I am being an honest ASS… Folks just aren’t paying ANY attention; they seem to actually believe that a company, ANY company gives a Fug about them…
Image is fuggin everything, just look at the Millions of Helmetless, Tatood "Modern Toughguys" on big twins. NO Helmets? Nope, they aren't "COOL" not Part of the "IMAGE"...
Christ I saw a Bike shop the other day called "Lifestyle" Motorcycling... Fug me if that didn't nearly kill me... "Lifestyle". Damn, don't live a life, don't think an original thought, here we have this one all packaged up for you! The U.S. is the only country on the planet with as many hapless dipsh!ts willing to risk their lives for an "IMAGE".... They will dress it up with BS about "Freedom" and "Choice"... But it's all about the hopes of "looking Cool" or being percieved as somehow "Special"... Huh...
But then again, I am mostly full of sh!d, Just my $1.50 worth anyhoo...
Nothing Personal Eynlai, you know me... Fueled by caffine...
In the end who knows yet if Scorpian is going to be worth a shid? If they are dirt cheap right now and SEEM to be a good value give it a try, the other side of the "Value" equation is the "It's so cheap it's disposable" mindset. So don't sweat it, just buy it, after all it's only a couple hundred bucks...
Hell If I find a helmet that fit better, vented better, weighed less, and was more Aero efficient than Arai, that I could trust? I'll buy it.
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1098366608 -->
And how exactly can we start judging the worth of the new entrant Scorpion? How can we know for sure that they just met the minimum or that they well exceed it? [/QUOTE]
This is exactly my point, there is no evidence, no history, and no real world results to look at and go hmm, “people wearing Scorpion Helmets have few serious head injuriesâ€. NOTHING, SAME for IICON, HJC, And the other Bargain bin offerings.
Arai has decades of experience and data straight from the road and track.
As a "Formally Educated person with a Marketing Background" you know that companies will cut corners EVERYWHERE they think they can get away with it to make a buck. Reduce material expenses, reduce amounts of a given product, etc… Right up to the point where they get complaints or law suits. Let's look at IIcon and Joe Rocket, Cheap and affordable is the bottom line... Sure clever Marketing to the Masses and targeted imagery will sell, but does the gear work? HELL, JUST ASK A REP? OR LOOK AT THEIR FUGGING WEBSITE!!!! Of Course that is to be believed. Joe Rocket has a huge list of folks espousing the "Lifesaving Technology" of their Joe Rocket gear... So it must be true!!! But first hand experience tells me their gloves shred, and the protection offered from their mesh products is minimal. BUT (Better than a t-shirt)...
Bottom line you never hear about other companies Helmets failing to perform because the wearers are to busy drooling on themselves, being spoon fed, and settling outta court for a couple Million$$$...
Yeah I know just running my mouth... it's a personal thing. It's placing a price on your brain; it's a matter of being able to recognize Value based on something OTHER THAN Dollar figures... Price is a consideration, but should not be the bottom line... Especially when we are talking about something your life depends on.
WARNING Caffeine Rant ahead ---
Americans are the KINGS of purchasing what’s cheap while chanting all along how it’s “Just as good†as the more expensive one… Which leading us back to the Hookers, just isn’t the case. The fresh, young new Girl on the corner is getting TOP DOLLAR cause she is as yet not all wrinkly and wore out and the High End call girl will provide a much more enjoyable experience than a streetwalker. You can also still buy a Low End Infiniti for a bit less than several Models of Nissans… Same as it has always been…
<span style='color:firebrick'>We can test the Hooker theory, you take a $20 and go pick up a street girl, I’ll take $500 and call a local Escort service. Then we’ll come back and give our reports.</span>
Anyway, I can look at an HJC and say emphatically it's not worth potting a plant. Same for IIcon, and a couple others. I cannot say Scorpion falls into that category as I haven't touched one or messed with one yet. But I can be supremely skeptical based on the Marketing Hype and Price. Sure Market Penetration and name Recognition is important but it's also another Bullsh!d tool used to push products out the door with promises of <span style='color:crimson'>"limited Time Opportunityâ€,</span>or <span style='color:red'>“NEWâ€.</span> Hell, Where’s the Fresh Lemon Scent?
Folks eat this sh!t up.
I have learned over the years how effective a clever campaign or package can be. And this Dr. Nikki Sloan is a classic… Bust out the T and A, Make it look like it’s REALLY EXPENSIVE, offer it at a “BARGAIN†price, make it shine, Hype the NEW FEATURES and watch them fly off the shelves… Christ your selling products to a population where “REALITY TELEVISION†is the biggest thing on TV and about all fugwits can chitter about… Where the H2 Abomination is selling briskly, where the BREAST Implant was Invented, and folks will spend THOUSANDS for Fake ass IMAGE... regardless of Substance… FUG me, it’s a Marketing Guys Wet Dream… Unsophisticated Consumers with extra Money and no ability to discern VALUE or PRICE… Yeah NOW I am being an ass, but I am being an honest ASS… Folks just aren’t paying ANY attention; they seem to actually believe that a company, ANY company gives a Fug about them…
Image is fuggin everything, just look at the Millions of Helmetless, Tatood "Modern Toughguys" on big twins. NO Helmets? Nope, they aren't "COOL" not Part of the "IMAGE"...
Christ I saw a Bike shop the other day called "Lifestyle" Motorcycling... Fug me if that didn't nearly kill me... "Lifestyle". Damn, don't live a life, don't think an original thought, here we have this one all packaged up for you! The U.S. is the only country on the planet with as many hapless dipsh!ts willing to risk their lives for an "IMAGE".... They will dress it up with BS about "Freedom" and "Choice"... But it's all about the hopes of "looking Cool" or being percieved as somehow "Special"... Huh...
But then again, I am mostly full of sh!d, Just my $1.50 worth anyhoo...
Nothing Personal Eynlai, you know me... Fueled by caffine...
In the end who knows yet if Scorpian is going to be worth a shid? If they are dirt cheap right now and SEEM to be a good value give it a try, the other side of the "Value" equation is the "It's so cheap it's disposable" mindset. So don't sweat it, just buy it, after all it's only a couple hundred bucks...
Hell If I find a helmet that fit better, vented better, weighed less, and was more Aero efficient than Arai, that I could trust? I'll buy it.
<!--EDIT|Revlis
Reason for Edit: None given...|1098366608 -->
defuzer565
Registered
They have the Scorpion helmets at the local dealership here in Huntsville. I have been shopping for another helmet for my wife and every time I go in there, they ask, “have you looked at the new Scorpion helmet line?" So, my wife happened to be with me last time and I was steering here towards a Shoei RF1000, which is what I wear. She tried on an Arai Quantum and fell in love, said it fit great! She tried on a Scorpion, and did not like the fit, which doesn’t mean anything as it is just an opinion. The Scorpion is heavier than both the RF1000 and Quantum. I was told the visor does not lock closed by the sales rep. It looks decent, fit and finish is good. But one thing I ask myself when buying items like helmets, is "how long has the company been around, and what about support in the future?" Meaning will they still be there in 3-4 years if I need a new visor, or liner? Arai, Shoei, AGV, HJC, etc... have been around for a while and will probably be around for some time to come.
Really, buy what you want it’s your money. Some people can’t afford a $300 helmet. I think the Scorpion will protect as well as an Arai or Shoei, just might not be as comfortable or quiet. Me personally, I will stick with my Shoei or Arai.
Really, buy what you want it’s your money. Some people can’t afford a $300 helmet. I think the Scorpion will protect as well as an Arai or Shoei, just might not be as comfortable or quiet. Me personally, I will stick with my Shoei or Arai.
Similar threads
