Premium fuel

[daiddu]

Had a couple questions for the Oil barons out there....

I stopped on the corner gas station after work and was thinking about the fuel pump at the kwik fill, versus the pumps at the station across the street.

The one I filled my bike at was the single hose and you select which grade you want. The pumps across the street had 3 hoses at each island for each grade. I began to wonder how much regular unleaded is still in the line after the last guy filled up with cheapo gas.

I asked the guy in the office where the pumps were at his station... In the island or on top of the tanks. He said they were on the tanks, but that after each filling, the lines drain and when you select, they are refilled with the new grade.

I asked if he had check valves at the tank and he said yes, so I thought the lines would stay full of the most recent grade.


So here are the questions....

- There seems to be near instant service when you squeeze the nozzle, so are the lines really drained when you finish pumping?

- Is there any reason to think that I should use stations that have dedicated nozzles only?

- 50' of 1" dimater steel fill lines from the tank to the nozzle equals 2 gallons of gas. I usually put 2 to 3 gallons in every fill up. Am I crazy ??

On a side note, there was a guy behind me waiting to buy cigarettes while I was asking about this and when he was walking out of the store, he had a big grin on his face, like there was some funny joke about me after I left... Slightly annoying, but he might have just been amused that someone really cared about this.

Give it to me straight.... I can take it

Thanks,

dd

 

[Johnnycheese]

nothing new here you will always get what ever was pumped last to start with. Fact of life. but remember they were designed for cars with 18+ gal tanks. not 3 gal bike tanks but due to your busa runs better with regular it doesn't matter

 

[daiddu]

Couple more questions...

- If I went to the pump that has 3 nozzles, I should only get premium? whereas I will get mostly unleaded at the single nozzle pumps?

- Are you saying that I should be using regular anyway??

- Do you have any mechanical experience with how gas station pumps work? (no offense)

dd

 

[Churchkey]

I read about the bike running better on regular on this board. I normally run premium in my bikes but switched to regular on the Busa for a try out. I get spark knock with regular on 90 degree days here in FL. Thats every friggin day until November. When I used a 1/2 tank of the regular I topped it off with premium. I'm staying with premium.

I try to purchase my fuel at stations that have octane specific nozzles.

 

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Always run premium fuel in your busa!


Many people don’t know what the difference in premium and regular is, but in a nutshell premium (higher octane) burns slower than regular. This does not mean that it produces less power only that it burns slower.

The reason for this is simple:

High performance motors are high performance because of a few reasons but one factor is compression ratio (Busa has 11.0:1 most cars only have 8-9.0:1) A high compression ratio squeezes the air fuel mix tighter making it more explosive. The problem with this that because the cylinder-piston are hot, the mix can pre-fire before the piston can get high enough in the cylinder (this is sort of how diesel motors fire) but in a gas motor this is called detonation and can be extremely bad for your motor. Most of the time you can’t hear it but after time it will eventually destroy your mill.

This is why premium fuel is made.

Engineers also retard the timing to fire a bit back from TDC in high performance motors with the assumed knowledge that a slower burning fuel will be used. Because the mix is fired before TDC the slower burning premium fuel will allow the crank to turn those few degrees before the gasses expand. This yields more power without detonation.


You did make a very valid point about the hoses but would likely only be ¼ gallon of lower grade fuel between the fuel head and the switching valves (located in the pump and do not have to come all the way from the tank……..if this were so there would be about a 30 second or longer delay before the fuel would start pumping after the handle was squeezed) so it is not a huge deal.

But please take my advice and run premium fuel.

 

[daiddu]

It's been over ten years since I have demoed any fuel pump systems, so I am not up on the latest installations... But I know they used to have some pumps located in the island under the nozzles and some installations had the pumps mounted on the tanks...

In the first case, you have only a couple of feet of pipe between the nozzle and supply. The check valve at the island will hold the fuel in the line and you are only getting a small amount of the other grade.

The pumps mounted on the tanks sometimes have check valves at the tank to hold the lines full so that you can get "instant" response at the nozzle. I don't recall where the recommended location for the selection valve was...

Also if the tanks are behind the station, then you have a longer run of pipe to the islands.

The epa may have done away with some of these installations with the double wall fuel systems, I have no idea. I was hoping there might be someone on here that knows the real deal

I guess I should probably just fuel at the place with 3 hoses and not worry about it so much...

Sounds like good advice on the high grade though, thanks !!

dd

 

[Johnnycheese]

Always run premium fuel in your busa!


Many people don’t know what the difference in premium and regular is, but in a nutshell premium (higher octane) burns slower than regular. This does not mean that it produces less power only that it burns slower.

The reason for this is simple:

High performance motors are high performance because of a few reasons but one factor is compression ratio (Busa has 11.0:1 most cars only have 8-9.0:1) A high compression ratio squeezes the air fuel mix tighter making it more explosive. The problem with this that because the cylinder-piston are hot, the mix can pre-fire before the piston can get high enough in the cylinder (this is sort of how diesel motors fire) but in a gas motor this is called detonation and can be extremely bad for your motor. Most of the time you can’t hear it but after time it will eventually destroy your mill.

This is why premium fuel is made.

Engineers also retard the timing to fire a bit back from TDC in high performance motors with the assumed knowledge that a slower burning fuel will be used. Because the mix is fired before TDC the slower burning premium fuel will allow the crank to turn those few degrees before the gasses expand. This yields more power without detonation.


You did make a very valid point about the hoses but would likely only be ¼ gallon of lower grade fuel between the fuel head and the switching valves (located in the pump and do not have to come all the way from the tank……..if this were so there would be about a 30 second or longer delay before the fuel would start pumping after the handle was squeezed) so it is not a huge deal.

But please take my advice and run premium fuel.

Damm too bad reading books and you think you are smart.
you want proof see it in the real world not books.
1>Proof .... makes more on the dyno
2>Proof.... makes more MPH on the track
3> Proof..... Suzuki engineers recommend it (I think they know more than you)
4>Proof.... just because it is 11:1 doesn't mean squat without timing being a factor.
5> besides theroy from a book,got any proof?

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Johnnycheese is 100% correct. This isn't 1969 where a high compression carburetted engine automatically requires high octane fuel. Things have changed over 30+ years.

93 octane in an unmodified Busa engine is a WASTE of money. The ECU will NOT compensate for the higher octane and advance the timing. This may be true in some cars but I don't know of any motorcycles with that capabilitly.

If the Busa pinged off of 87 then Suzuki would have recommended 89. Also everytime this subject is brought up the overwhelming opinion is that the Busa performs MUCH better off of 87. Having experimented with 87, 89 and 93 I have to agree.

 

[daiddu]

Jc,

I'm not so much worried about the dyno, or the mph, I was just curious about this, because I was told by my dealer to use premium fuel. He has owned a couple busas, and I assumed he wasn't trying to have me support the oil industry by over-recommending a grade.

I would question why the suzuki engineers recommend low grade, and the dealers say hi-grade (unless mine owns a pile of shell stock )

I seemed to remember from one of those crazy books that lower grade actually gives you better hp, unless the engine starts to knock, then it is combusting too early and is not good for the engine.

I'm trying to keep my bike in good shape... that's all

dd

Surely we have some busa owners that work as hobby gas station installers

 

[Mattzgixxer]

well someone needs to come to a decesion on what gas is best but i dont know if suzuki says what to use that a pretty good arguement.

 

[Johnnycheese]

read your owners manual.
screw what the dealer says have of then don't even know what makes todays bike tick.
Just ask the dealership why Suzuki says one thing and they say different? then call US suzuki and see what happens

 

[willgetbusa]

i've been running 89 on my 99 bus and it seems to be running fine so far but i don't know why the manual says, "minimum 87 octane" and the label on the right side of the frame says, "minimum 91 ron". any ideas?

 

[Glyn]

Johnnyhotnuts needs to read the sevice and owners manual.

Suzuki recomends 87 octane, anything more is a waste of money, and will not improve performance, idling, fuel mileage. The people at Suzuki know what they have designed the bike for, believe them, if they wanted premium, they would have said so.

The triple nozzles on pumps can hold up to a gallon of the last grade of gas pumped.

Hope this helps.



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Reason for Edit: None given...|1091680569 -->

 

[hooken203]

Damn Johnny seems like you just gota beat some guys with a big stick. If your stock motor pings on 87 you better try a different brand. Why is it that people from say Florida think that their 90 degree temp is somehow hotter than 90 else where. There is so much more to an engine pinging or not than timming and fuel octane. Some of you better get the books out and read on. I have ran 87 it runs the best in mine. I have tried 89 and around here thats 87 with ethanol mixed in. I have also ran 92 Amoco Ultimate both of these caused different drivabilty problems. Drag strip times and MPH both prove there is no improvment with the higher octane fuels.

 

[Johnnycheese]

i've been running 89 on my 99 bus and it seems to be running fine so far but i don't know why the manual says, "minimum 87 octane" and the label on the right side of the frame says, "minimum 91 ron".  any ideas?

one in usa and the other is other countries

 

[Johnnycheese]

Damn Johnny seems like you just gota beat some guys with a big stick. If your stock motor pings on 87 you better try a different brand. Why is it that people from say Florida think that their 90 degree temp is somehow hotter than 90 else where. There is so much more to an engine pinging or not than timming and fuel octane. Some of you better get the books out and read on. I have ran 87 it runs the best in mine. I have tried 89 and around here thats 87 with ethanol mixed in. I have also ran 92 Amoco Ultimate both of these caused  different drivabilty problems. Drag strip times and MPH both prove there is no improvment with the higher octane fuels.

yep it was 100+ with 50% humidity here and 115 on the dyno damm I guess 90 in floida would feel like winter but too much sun can fry brain cells

 

[willgetbusa]

i've been running 89 on my 99 bus and it seems to be running fine so far but i don't know why the manual says, "minimum 87 octane" and the label on the right side of the frame says, "minimum 91 ron".  any ideas?

one in usa and the other is other countries

thanks for the info,

i would think that if suzuki put 87 octane minimun on the label too on the busas coming to the u.s. of a. , it would've eliminate a lot of the confusions.

 

[Rob'sBus]

Premium's the fuel for my Bus. Don't know if it makes a big diff but I just feel better knowing I'm feeding her the best.

 

[paulos]

with our premium unleaded over here i know for a fact that they aint drained,coz its very wierd when you first fill up and when it starts the £ sighn goes up then the pump stops,and when it starts up you can feel the fuel then going thro the pipe.
plus we are the dearist in the world

that really does get on me nervs:angry:

 

[Revlis]

JUST Remember Suzuki doesn't specify 87 octane, 87 is the Minimum. I figure fug it, it's hot and muggy here in Tampa, I tend to split the difference and I run 89 just fine...