Org un-scientific poll >>>>> Obama Care <<<<<

[m_ridgeway]

I'll tell you a sad story.

Wait until Monster Profit Company 350 tells you or your wife or your mom or your 26-year old child to go pound sand, we're not paying for your health insurance any more because you cost too much. Bye-bye. Oh, and get them out of the hospital by the end of the week. Then you watch them die.

Then try to sue Monster Profit Company 350. You'll spend at least a decade trying to defeat one of the largest law firms in the world. And then maybe, just maybe, you'll win. But, probably not, because their client contributes more to campaigns in a year than your entire family will make in generations. And if you're lucky enough to win, let me know how "satisfying" that feels. Or if it teaches Monster Profit Company 350 "a lesson." Doesn't matter, because they've been laughing at you from the first time you dared to challenge them, because they know they'll spend more money in legal fees to defeat you than what it would have cost them to save a hundred of your worthless relatives' lives. But, that's in their budget--not your sickly wife, mom, child who's taking too much off our bottom line.

How's that for a sad story?

If that doesn't bother you, let me know. I'll dig up another one for you.

same thing does and will happen under government ran health care. not sure i see the point here.

[BUSA CRUSEN]

Here is something that might take the edge off for some of you guys. Makes me feel a little better, but I could still be feeling much better right now.

Why Chief Justice Roberts Made the Right Long-Term Decision With ObamaCare - Independent Journal Review

[black diamond busa]

Yeah my boss was just telling me about that. Hopefully if it passes my state will not take part of it.

[05 Busa LE]

same thing does and will happen under government ran health care. not sure i see the point here.

Not true. Insurance companies can't drop you just because you're sick and they decide they've paid enough. Affordable Care Act &mdash; Barack Obama

[05 Busa LE]

You have all the time in the world to get with your insurance company to get a better plan, does it cost for better service yep, its a business not a charity. * * *

Can you tell me one service or product in our country that doesn't have some sort of limit on it? Sad, maybe but if you want something better then in this country go start your own insurance company and offer these unlimited services to your customers for a low fee and lets see how long you stay in business..... * * *

cap

I'm talking about insurance company abuse, not trying to buy a better plan once you're sick. It may pain you, but take a minute to look at what the President says about the Act: Health Care &mdash; President Obama&rsquo;s Record &mdash; Barack Obama.

You're right that everything has limits (except, I guess, the Universe). But take a look at the profits of most insurance companies. For example, check out AIG's fourth-quarter profits in 2011. They were almost bankrupt in 2009, but all of our dollars saved them. It seems wrong to me to bail out the insurance companies, the auto makers, and the banks (and I'm not saying it was wrong to do so), but not the poor, the homeless, and the indigent.

It all comes down to whether you fall to the left or the right.

[BlueHaya]

So, is the Supreme Court the only entity that has read the whole package to be able to truly rule if it is Constitutional or not?

I like parts, but not others, from what I have read/heard. Of course like 99.5% of the rest of the world, I dont know what's in it.

[Justyntym]

Point 1-The govt' screws up EVERYTHING it touches. Why oh why would ANYONE think
this will be any different. This will be a disaster. Of course health care will be rationed
and the number of doctors WILL decline while you add millions of freebies to the roster.
Not to mention anybody who does not think that insurance will go up (as long as the deficit)
needs to go back to grade school and review some basic math.

Point 2-Nothing and I mean NOTHING in life is free. EVERYTHING cost someone something.
So the freebie BS has got to stop.

Point 3-LIFE IS ANYTHING BUT FAIR. I learned that at an early early age, "who said
life is fair?" So the "playing field" isn't level...so what, that's LIFE.
Get over it, it never was and never will be.

Point 4-This country was set up as a FREE NATION, not a socialist nation. Socialism
does NOT WORK. Not to mention...WE ARE ALREADY OUT OF MONEY (please see point 2).

Point 5- The Supreme court decision is a joke. They (chief justice) claims despite all
points from the bill's makers...it's a tax so it's o.k. Even after the decision, the White House
still spins it as a penalty. So...make up your mind, if it's a penalty it's an unconstitutional reach
of the commerce clause. If it's legal then say it's a tax.

Point 6-It kills me when people use the car insurance argument.
This is America (or was). Driving or not driving IS MY CHOICE. If you don't
want car insurance, don't drive. Motorcycle insurance is optional in Florida.
Does the same choice exist for an American living here on healthcare...NOPE.

Point 7-ObamaKare has never been about healthcare...it's about CONTROL.

Anyone for fast and furious....

[m_ridgeway]

Not true. Insurance companies can't drop you just because you're sick and they decide they've paid enough. Affordable Care Act — Barack Obama

who approves and dispersing the money? if its true you have an open ended check for healthcare then the system is more flawed than i thought.

[skydivr]

There will be as many or more who will still not buy it, and still not pay the penalty, as those who don't buy auto insurance and drive anyway. And those of us who do will continue to pay more and more for it.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother working, I'd be better off to stop working and breed...

[GNBRETT]

where is the get rid of Obama period! option????

[fallenarch]

When asked most congressmen stated they did not read the 2100 pages of law... That my friend is a fact, this is why this is such a problem... We have no idea what was really put into law!

I hear this a lot "congress didn't read it" But that is actually not how it works. Each congressman has a staff of people who are experts that read laws and debate bills and then give the congressman an executive summary onhow to vote and what the critical issues are. There are legal experts, industry experts, even political experts and debate the merits of the bill. Once this is done, the congressman and his or her close staff decide how to vote. So, it is actually possible for most congressman to make an intelligent vote on a 2000-10000 page bill in tight time frames like a week. The source of my information is that two of my close family members do this for a living for 2 different congressman.

As for the poll, you left out the bet option: The current law is flawed but we need healthcare and if we don't keep this foothold in the door it may never get done. 7 presidents have tried to get national healthcare including several republicans like Nixon and Eisenhower and even Reagan was for it before he was against it. We are the only major country that doesn't have it and we pay a fortune from a lower performing system. Healthcare is essential to individual freedom. What I find fasinating is people will pay crazy taxes to defense costs that have nothing to do with national securite and basically fatten the pockets of the MIC. On the other hand, a relatively small increase in taxes would provide universal healthcare that every single American would benifit from. I don't get it?

So as a part owner of a big business (500+ people), I am for universal healthcare and free school through College. Healthier, smarter people will make me more money.

[fallenarch]

I don't get where the government screws up everything came from. It is a great example of how propaganda works. Does anyone remember these things:

1. The US of A? Created by government.
2. System of laws - setup by governmant
3. WWI & WWII? Won by the government
4. Interstate system? Created by government
5. Free waters around our coasts free of pirates? By Government
6. Radio, Cable, TV - made possible by government regulation of air waves
7. Clean water (ever go to mexico and get the 2-step)? Government
8. Airlines? Made possible by government - screwed up by de-regulation.
9. Patents? Government
10. Fire department and EMS? Government
11. Police? Government (ok maybe that's not a good example )
12. Safe drugs? Government
13. Internet? Government


The bottom line is there are very few industries that weren't either created or subsidized by the goverment until they got viable. Look at countries with un-checked capitalism - they are sewers full of robbers and theives. Businesses are self interested and require a referee to keep them from victimizing the populace - this is a proven fact. We are government. The problem we are seeing now is that corporation control the government rather than the other way around.

[captain]

We are government. The problem we are seeing now is that corporation control the government rather than the other way around.

So the majority of the country does not want this Tax, so how would you defend that we are the govt if the govt is not doing what the majority of the country wants? Our represenatives are not listening to the people, I think this is this biggest complaint I am hearing from our citizens right now. You know what, if the majority of the country wanted this then it would be much easier to swallow...

Cap

[fallenarch]

We are not a democracy we are a representational demoracy. There are many laws we all think are normal now that were not popular. If you really don't like the healthcare law, you will have your opportunity to voice it in November. Public opinion is affected by propaganda, lack of understanding, etc. If you ask people if they like the Healthcare bill they will say no. If you then ask them if they like the individual provisions of the law they will like each and everyone of them. Electied officials are not readers of the polls, they must understand what is best for the country and do that then sell it to the people. Either way, come November you get your chance to voice your opinion.

[Poppy]

I hear this a lot "congress didn't read it" But that is actually not how it works. Each congressman has a staff of people who are experts that read laws and debate bills and then give the congressman an executive summary onhow to vote and what the critical issues are. There are legal experts, industry experts, even political experts and debate the merits of the bill. Once this is done, the congressman and his or her close staff decide how to vote. So, it is actually possible for most congressman to make an intelligent vote on a 2000-10000 page bill in tight time frames like a week. The source of my information is that two of my close family members do this for a living for 2 different congressman.

As for the poll, you left out the bet option: The current law is flawed but we need healthcare and if we don't keep this foothold in the door it may never get done. 7 presidents have tried to get national healthcare including several republicans like Nixon and Eisenhower and even Reagan was for it before he was against it. We are the only major country that doesn't have it and we pay a fortune from a lower performing system. Healthcare is essential to individual freedom. What I find fasinating is people will pay crazy taxes to defense costs that have nothing to do with national securite and basically fatten the pockets of the MIC. On the other hand, a relatively small increase in taxes would provide universal healthcare that every single American would benifit from. I don't get it?

So as a part owner of a big business (500+ people), I am for universal healthcare and free school through College. Healthier, smarter people will make me more money.

fallenarch, you make very good, valid points on this topic. However, just know you will be in the minority opinion here on this site. I too think we should be able to provide decent health care for everyone and I am not against paying a slight increase in some mystery "tax" for truly indigent, deserving folks. We are already paying higher premiums for recovering costs of the uninsured. Maybe it will balance out, don't know. I'm just not sure the best way to accomplish the end goal as fair as possible for each of us.

DISCLAIMER......I will admit I am not aligned with either party, I'm registered independent. I actually base my choices on voting histories, not party platform. Not perfect but it works for me.

[fallenarch]

What politicians (R and D's) are good at is forcing you into false boxes. The real question is not "do we need to pay more taxes for healthcare?", it's do we need to spend crazy trillions in places like Iraq and not provide healthcare to everyone. The politicians have been successful in focusing us away from the fact that the MIC is stealing trillions of dollars out of the national check book while we all try to figure out how to squeeze a few more dollars out for the things we need domestically.

Our country can't survive as we know it without basic social safety nets. How do you risk your life savings to start a business if you have nothing to fall back on? Healthcare is fundamentally about freedom. Market forces like supply and demand can not balance a system where you have no choice whether or not to "buy" the product. This is a no brainer and most countries are looking at us and scratching their heads at how many people don't get what is happening here in America politically.


On another point, being in the minority is less scary to me than ignoring all the facts and thinking like everyone else. I think that's what America is really about.

[Poppy]

The War Machine is a monster, for sure. It's definitely taking a lot of revenue that should be kept here, spent here.

[skydivr]

Guys, you'd better look at the numbers - yes DOD eats up a lot of the pie, but it's a drop in the bucket when compared to entitlements...kinda scarey, isn't it....

I've been thru 3 drawdowns in the miltiary budget, and it's happening again right now. It's acutally the one thing that you CAN cut (when you stop fighting). Once you hand out an entitlement (and that's what this REALLY is), it's pretty much impossible to take it back....

[fallenarch]

DoD is the biggest single chunk at about 24% but add everything else up and it is small, so you are correct Skydiver. This brings us to 2 questions, the first is what should we be spending our money on if not those things that are necessary but hard to provide in a supply and demand market? If I could keep 100% of my paycheck I still couldn'tafford to buy and maintain a road for example. The second is what is the basic cost of a modern society? Clearly Skydiver you are correct in that something needs to give as entitlements will continue to grow until they eat the entire budget. Also you can't stop military spending because so much of the economy depends on military contractors (like me). Very difficult balancing act, politics makes it nearly impossible to resolve.

[skydivr]

Then, as you know Arch, contracts come, and contracts go.

I think the Bush administration got a little freehanded with the contracts. A lot of that is going to go away. But once Obamacare gets rooted, it's going to be impossible to stop.