Not to start trouble
- Thread starter BrianKesler
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Mr Brown
Registered
You really think that everyone who lives in poverty wants to be there? You seriously believe that if they had the same opportunities that you and I had, they would CHOOSE to be dependant on the government? You believe that luck had nothing to do with the way your life plays out? C'mon, even you can't be that naive.What do you say to something so inarticulate and stupid.
More proof that you say things because they sound 'enlightened' and 'intellectual' without having any meaning. Seriously, WTF are you talking about?
Mr Brown
Registered
Again, if you aren't racist, why does it bother you so much that I think you are? You can call me whatever you want, all you want, I know what and who I am, thus your opinion of me matters not. I guess I must be really hitting a nerve for you to be crying about it this much........
I would say that a solid majority of people living in poverty don't want to be there and also are unwilling to do the hard work that it takes to change their course in life.
Yes some people would rather rely on the government or others for what they need instead of working for it themselves. Do you believe that's not the case?
Life is all about chance and timing. However chance favors the prepared mind and regardless of your lot in life, eventually you become an adult and are responsible for your own decisions and the choices you make. If you have had a rough life prior through no fault of your own of course it will be tougher, but you pretend like the choices and chances just disappear because of it.
Mr Brown
Registered
Ahh, I see. If someones politics differ from yours, then they are inarticulate and nonsensical. I am many things, but inarticulate is not one of them..........Because your incapabale of making sounds decisions or arguments based on the non-sense you espouse here.
How could the balance of power shift away from me, I dont have it? More proof of <s>John Kerry</s> Mr. Brown intellectualism without any substance.
You should be hanging out with Bett Midler at a charity concert, you and her view the world alike and are about as articulate at conveying the same.
Because that is a pretty heavy label to be throwing around, especially when the only person who is being devisive about color is YOU.
The better question however is why would you all me a racist? I challenge you to point out one statement I have ever made that indicates I'm a racist. Let me help you out, click the "profile" button in the bottom of my post box and then click on the "show all posts by justintime2" option. You can have all the time you need.
Has nothing to do with point of view. Trying to sound smooth or fancy doesn't qualify, you actually have to say something and the reference above certainly doesn't qualify. Again, where do think this crap up, oh, oh, I got this, I will say something that sounds cool as hell only it won't mean a damn thing and I will be 'articulate'.
I'm off to work and will continue this debate with you when done. Use your search time well!
Mr Brown
Registered
Sorry for the delay, but i'm at work and sometimes I actually have to do stuff!
Anywho, the comment in smily's thread about the Florida school teacher was the first that springs to mind, you thought she had a point......
Be safe fighting fires.......
Mr Brown
Registered
Articulate is defined by Webster's as "Using language easily and fluently" something with which I have never had difficulty. It is irrelevant what you think of my message, or my beliefs, you know exactly what I mean.Has nothing to do with point of view. Trying to sound smooth or fancy doesn't qualify, you actually have to say something and the reference above certainly doesn't qualify. Again, where do think this crap up, oh, oh, I got this, I will say something that sounds cool as hell only it won't mean a damn thing and I will be 'articulate'.
Dang it. and I really wanted to not say anything more
Yes, there are fricken losers all over this world that prefer fricken hand outs rather than work.
I will give some examples.
years ago I saw this guy in front of a store asking for money for food. I always try to help people out when I can, but I try to follow my instincts.
I did not feel right about giving him money but I did anyway. Primarily out of compassion and also since I am a Christian I try to go by what the bible says about charity and if someone asks you for something you should give it to them (since then however I have also added to my brain group being charitible but at the same time being a good steward of what God has given to me to have stewardship over).
Sure enough, gave the guy some money, about 10 minutes later I saw him walking out of the store with booze. no food, just booze.
This kind of bugged me, so I went and sought counsel from my pastor about what to do in situations like that since it bothered me not to give money but it bothered me also to give money and have it used for something other than what it was intended for
My pastors response was if someone is asking you for money for food, don’t give them money, but offer to take them to a place you can buy the meal for them.
Since then I have tried to do that as I am led.
Continued stories are as follows.
When I have had people ask me for money for food and I tell them I wont give them money but I will buy them a meal, most turn me down.
One time I had two guys except my offer. I was in Bakersfield. Just got back from a watching a full contact event. Stopped at a Carl’s junior and there were these two guys sitting out front. Asked me for some money for food, said they were stranded that there car had broke down.
I told them I would not give them any money but if they came inside I would buy them whatever they wanted and they jumped up and thanked me, we all went inside I paid for the meals, we ate together and I split.
Another time I was traveling with a friend and saw this lady on a busy street corner with 3 kids playing on the side walk. She had this big sign that read she and her children were homeless and was wanting food.
After feeling a conviction to help, and having my friend drive around the block like 5 times before I had the nerve to get out and talk to her, I finally got out of the car at the corner and my friend drove off. I talked to her and she said she was homeless and needed food for her and her children.
I told her I would not give her money, but I told her I was going to be in town for like 3 days and that I would pay for a room just for her and her children for the 3 days I was there and take care of their meals for the three days.
Her response was one of shock and then she said… “well actually I am staying at a friends and I really don’t need a place to stayâ€
I then offered to buy her and her children a meal and she turned me down.
Had a friend of mine I had not seen in like 20 years look me up once. Told me how he used to be hooked on heroin and he used to stand on street corners in L.A. asking for hand outs and if someone pulled a wallet out to give him money he would grab their wallet and run.
I agree with what Justintime says about the Mayor of NO, I don’t see him as a black man or a white man, I don’t see him as any color, what I see is a jerk who seems to have been doing a piss poor job at being mayor and regardless of his race, sexual orientation or anything else, the guy screwed up and should at least be taken out of office.
There is NOTHING racist about that. It is holding someone accountable for something they should be accountable for. And if ANYONE throws race into the picture THEY are the ones that have a race issue.
I would care if Mayor Nagin or whatever his name is was my blood brother, I would tell him he screwed up and should resign before he gets axed.
And yes, unless you were elderly, crippled or in some other way incapacitated, they COULD have gotten out. Most people who stayed did so because no one wants to leave there home. Nor did anyone think it would have been as bad as it was.
When I was in Beaufort South Carolina when Hurricane Hugo went through, the base told us to get the heck out of dodge. Most people left, some stayed. After it was over with went home and there was no damage to Beaufort.
And as far as the government being responsible for saving someone’s a$$ for not saving their own a$$ guess what? Here in California for example, often if hiker or rock climber someone gets lost or in someway needs rescuing and it can be proven that they required assistance out of their own negligence, the person or persons who are rescued get sent a bill for the cost of the service to rescue them.
I don’t know how often people get billed for rescues, but it happens if someone risks their own life and screws up.
So the majority of people that stayed was due to their own belief that things would not be as bad as they turned out to be and it is NOT the governments responsibility to save someone from themselves.
It is called natural selection. Regardless of sex or race, people that make unwise decisions just usually do not live that long.
A prime example of this mentality is look at this new storm Rita, people saw what happened 3 weeks ago so people are taking this crap serious now (at least in Texas) I just read this on my news feed, check this shid out!!!! Ok NOW I will call those people stupid!!!
New Orleans Residents in No Rush to Leave
WTF!!! these people almost got wiped off the fricken map 3 weeks ago and they are still not heeding the warnings!!!!
Personally, if N.O. gets hit a second time by a huge hurricane within 3 weeks, I am going to look at it as a sign that maybe God does not approve of the life style in that area of the country.
Stop beating this racist crap into the ground. it does not have a fricken thing to do with race, it has to do with natural disasters and humans not making proper choices.
<!--EDIT|thrasherfox
Reason for Edit: None given...|1127336907 -->
Yes, there are fricken losers all over this world that prefer fricken hand outs rather than work.
I will give some examples.
years ago I saw this guy in front of a store asking for money for food. I always try to help people out when I can, but I try to follow my instincts.
I did not feel right about giving him money but I did anyway. Primarily out of compassion and also since I am a Christian I try to go by what the bible says about charity and if someone asks you for something you should give it to them (since then however I have also added to my brain group being charitible but at the same time being a good steward of what God has given to me to have stewardship over).
Sure enough, gave the guy some money, about 10 minutes later I saw him walking out of the store with booze. no food, just booze.
This kind of bugged me, so I went and sought counsel from my pastor about what to do in situations like that since it bothered me not to give money but it bothered me also to give money and have it used for something other than what it was intended for
My pastors response was if someone is asking you for money for food, don’t give them money, but offer to take them to a place you can buy the meal for them.
Since then I have tried to do that as I am led.
Continued stories are as follows.
When I have had people ask me for money for food and I tell them I wont give them money but I will buy them a meal, most turn me down.
One time I had two guys except my offer. I was in Bakersfield. Just got back from a watching a full contact event. Stopped at a Carl’s junior and there were these two guys sitting out front. Asked me for some money for food, said they were stranded that there car had broke down.
I told them I would not give them any money but if they came inside I would buy them whatever they wanted and they jumped up and thanked me, we all went inside I paid for the meals, we ate together and I split.
Another time I was traveling with a friend and saw this lady on a busy street corner with 3 kids playing on the side walk. She had this big sign that read she and her children were homeless and was wanting food.
After feeling a conviction to help, and having my friend drive around the block like 5 times before I had the nerve to get out and talk to her, I finally got out of the car at the corner and my friend drove off. I talked to her and she said she was homeless and needed food for her and her children.
I told her I would not give her money, but I told her I was going to be in town for like 3 days and that I would pay for a room just for her and her children for the 3 days I was there and take care of their meals for the three days.
Her response was one of shock and then she said… “well actually I am staying at a friends and I really don’t need a place to stayâ€
I then offered to buy her and her children a meal and she turned me down.
Had a friend of mine I had not seen in like 20 years look me up once. Told me how he used to be hooked on heroin and he used to stand on street corners in L.A. asking for hand outs and if someone pulled a wallet out to give him money he would grab their wallet and run.
I agree with what Justintime says about the Mayor of NO, I don’t see him as a black man or a white man, I don’t see him as any color, what I see is a jerk who seems to have been doing a piss poor job at being mayor and regardless of his race, sexual orientation or anything else, the guy screwed up and should at least be taken out of office.
There is NOTHING racist about that. It is holding someone accountable for something they should be accountable for. And if ANYONE throws race into the picture THEY are the ones that have a race issue.
I would care if Mayor Nagin or whatever his name is was my blood brother, I would tell him he screwed up and should resign before he gets axed.
And yes, unless you were elderly, crippled or in some other way incapacitated, they COULD have gotten out. Most people who stayed did so because no one wants to leave there home. Nor did anyone think it would have been as bad as it was.
When I was in Beaufort South Carolina when Hurricane Hugo went through, the base told us to get the heck out of dodge. Most people left, some stayed. After it was over with went home and there was no damage to Beaufort.
And as far as the government being responsible for saving someone’s a$$ for not saving their own a$$ guess what? Here in California for example, often if hiker or rock climber someone gets lost or in someway needs rescuing and it can be proven that they required assistance out of their own negligence, the person or persons who are rescued get sent a bill for the cost of the service to rescue them.
I don’t know how often people get billed for rescues, but it happens if someone risks their own life and screws up.
So the majority of people that stayed was due to their own belief that things would not be as bad as they turned out to be and it is NOT the governments responsibility to save someone from themselves.
It is called natural selection. Regardless of sex or race, people that make unwise decisions just usually do not live that long.
A prime example of this mentality is look at this new storm Rita, people saw what happened 3 weeks ago so people are taking this crap serious now (at least in Texas) I just read this on my news feed, check this shid out!!!! Ok NOW I will call those people stupid!!!
New Orleans Residents in No Rush to Leave
WTF!!! these people almost got wiped off the fricken map 3 weeks ago and they are still not heeding the warnings!!!!
Personally, if N.O. gets hit a second time by a huge hurricane within 3 weeks, I am going to look at it as a sign that maybe God does not approve of the life style in that area of the country.
Stop beating this racist crap into the ground. it does not have a fricken thing to do with race, it has to do with natural disasters and humans not making proper choices.
<!--EDIT|thrasherfox
Reason for Edit: None given...|1127336907 -->
I also want to add that I fully acknowledge there is a certain level of poverty that a person can reach that makes it extremely difficult for them to help themselves.
A person can be sick and lose their job, or get laid off and as soon as you do not have the money flowing in you start losing stuff, transportation, housing etc.
And if you don’t have a car, and you don’t have a phone and you don’t have a place to live, it is real difficult to find a job.
Kind of like the old saying you need money to make money.
The more money you have, the more money you can make, the less money you have the less ability you have to make more.
So yes, I have no doubt there were probably a lot of people, white, brown, black etc that were in situations where some had no choice. But I think a lot of the lives lost were just due to people not taking it serious.
As I have stated before, I have never seen this much devastation on US soil by a natural disaster. I think if I lived in N.O. I would have gotten out, but I think I would have been (as I still am) in shock of the devastation.
A person can be sick and lose their job, or get laid off and as soon as you do not have the money flowing in you start losing stuff, transportation, housing etc.
And if you don’t have a car, and you don’t have a phone and you don’t have a place to live, it is real difficult to find a job.
Kind of like the old saying you need money to make money.
The more money you have, the more money you can make, the less money you have the less ability you have to make more.
So yes, I have no doubt there were probably a lot of people, white, brown, black etc that were in situations where some had no choice. But I think a lot of the lives lost were just due to people not taking it serious.
As I have stated before, I have never seen this much devastation on US soil by a natural disaster. I think if I lived in N.O. I would have gotten out, but I think I would have been (as I still am) in shock of the devastation.
CouchRocket
Registered
From the looks of this picture of Katrina I think God is really pissed off at New Orleans too.
I am late to this party and don't plan to stay long. But ignoring most of the bickering and name calling, I am taking a hard look at the original post. I am interested in facts. All these numbered items look and smell like facts. If they are true, I would have to agree that local officials have a lot to be accountable for. But all the facts need to come out before jumpoing to any conclusions. There may have been reasons for the Mayor holding back. Period, end of story. The race of those officials is irrelevent.
In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsibility for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:
1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security
(a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President
What did each do?
1. The mayor, with 5 days advance notice, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees)
3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid ! until tw o DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
4. The Director of Homeland Security placed assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them
5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
For those who missed item 5 (the President's level of accountability), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune article dated August 28:
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome. The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin's court to carry out the evacuation order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his administration screwed up. Bigtime.
These boobs let 569 buses, which could have carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans in one trip, get ruined in the floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been if they'd bothered to follow it.
[/QUOTE]
Now with that said, I am starting to squint my eyes as I read the rest. It is the following statement that starts to bother me:
As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from prominent blacks on the left, don't expect Ray Nagin to be called out on the carpet for falling short.
It's more convenient to blame a president for what went wrong than to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency preparedness plan.
To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of "Racism!". It's sad, it's wrong, but it's standard operating procedure these days.
Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, the Rev. Al Sharpton, or Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin Jr.
[/QUOTE]
I know that all you hear is what you see on the news, but you guys gotta realize that all prominent politicians and religious leaders, black or white, have their own agendas. They use incidents like this to further their causes. But this doesn't only apply to black people, you had better believe that the next candidates for mayor, govenor, president, and leader of the KKK, will use this incident to further his cause or to injure his opponent. For example, read this quote:
The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt government going all the way back to Huey Long.
Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city for decades, and where has it gone? Into the pockets of politicians and their friends.
Decades of bad government in New Orleans have sapped all self reliance from the community and made them dependent upon government for every little thing.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds as much like opportunistic, political, opinionated BS as anything that Jackson, Sharpton, or West could say. There aren't any facts to back it up. ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO FURTHER THEIR INTERESTS The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can weed out the BS spoken by black people as well as white people.
<!--EDIT|Thinker62
Reason for Edit: None given...|1127338749 -->
In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsibility for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:
1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security
(a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President
What did each do?
1. The mayor, with 5 days advance notice, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees)
3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid ! until tw o DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
4. The Director of Homeland Security placed assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them
5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
For those who missed item 5 (the President's level of accountability), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune article dated August 28:
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome. The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin's court to carry out the evacuation order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his administration screwed up. Bigtime.
These boobs let 569 buses, which could have carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans in one trip, get ruined in the floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been if they'd bothered to follow it.
[/QUOTE]
Now with that said, I am starting to squint my eyes as I read the rest. It is the following statement that starts to bother me:
As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from prominent blacks on the left, don't expect Ray Nagin to be called out on the carpet for falling short.
It's more convenient to blame a president for what went wrong than to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency preparedness plan.
To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of "Racism!". It's sad, it's wrong, but it's standard operating procedure these days.
Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, the Rev. Al Sharpton, or Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin Jr.
[/QUOTE]
I know that all you hear is what you see on the news, but you guys gotta realize that all prominent politicians and religious leaders, black or white, have their own agendas. They use incidents like this to further their causes. But this doesn't only apply to black people, you had better believe that the next candidates for mayor, govenor, president, and leader of the KKK, will use this incident to further his cause or to injure his opponent. For example, read this quote:
The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt government going all the way back to Huey Long.
Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city for decades, and where has it gone? Into the pockets of politicians and their friends.
Decades of bad government in New Orleans have sapped all self reliance from the community and made them dependent upon government for every little thing.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds as much like opportunistic, political, opinionated BS as anything that Jackson, Sharpton, or West could say. There aren't any facts to back it up. ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO FURTHER THEIR INTERESTS The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can weed out the BS spoken by black people as well as white people.
<!--EDIT|Thinker62
Reason for Edit: None given...|1127338749 -->
I see we arguing about the same stupid stuff again but for the correct answer all you have to do is look what the mayor did AGAIN . Start inviting everyone back in against higher ups disaproval . Because he new hurrican rita was coming and then 4 hrs later changing his mind .man and those people in new orleans voted him in. go figure
Relsek
Registered
Two small points here,
1. If I began telling everyone that Mr. Brown is Gay, (I'm assuming you're not) would you deny it or just let it be said and assumed to be true?
2. If they were truly racist, they may think that you are beneath them and not worthy of the time of day for discussion. The fact that they are even discussing it with you shows their concern for the problem and desire to see a resolution to it.
<!--EDIT|Kevin Kesler
Reason for Edit: None given...|1127340914 -->
BrianKesler
Registered
Are you sure??
This was written right after my post, but I don't think it is in response to mine. However, what I would say to this is that I would like to here the Mayor's reasoning for letting people back into the city. If I heard it right, that discussion was going on well before Rita became a serious threat. All the discussion seemed to be centered around whether the city was ready for occupancy.....water, electric and so on. Of course Rita provided a much more forceful argument against letting people back into the city. But I will reserve judgement till I here the Mayor's explanation.
BrianKesler
Registered
I 100% agree with you
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