No job = tax refund?

[ToyKraz]

How wonderful a life they must have on $27,000 a year? I can see why there would be no incentive to do better.

Again, why is it anyone's fault but theirs that they make $27K a year. I started in the industry I work in at $4.10 an hour. I worked hard to learn and excel. Nobody handed me anything. I have made very good money on the last 10 or so years, but again it was due to an impeccable work ethic.

The above mentioned employee took half a day off after getting his check to go get a new vehicle. Then the next day he came in late because he had to go to the DMV. He took a long lunch the third day to go take his motorcycle exam. Gee, how about spending some of that $9K refund to go buy food or clothes instead of looking for hand outs all the time?

 

[m_ridgeway]

How wonderful a life they must have on $27,000 a year? I can see why there would be no incentive to do better.

I've made less than that with a family of three and belive me its a lot of incentive to do better. its all the supprt that can let you get comfortable. I know people that make less than that and have way less stress than me. Because of all the assistance they get and are perfectly content at it. I've offered some of them work at about 20 an hour plus 700 a week tax exempt living expense with benefits and they turn it down because it will remove public assistance from their life and make it harder. I'd rather pay my own way guess that's why I changed.

Don't get me wrong eithet public assistance needs to be there for situations where you come on hard times. But it shouldn't be a lifestyle. I've actually stopped my unemployment to make less just because I'd rather work vs sitting around sucking the system even more dry than It already is.
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[ToyKraz]

I've made less than that with a family of three and belive me its a lot of incentive to do better. its all the supprt that can let you get comfortable. I know people that make less than that and have way less stress than me. Because of all the assistance they get and are perfectly content at it. I've offered some of them work at about 20 an hour plus 700 a week tax exempt living expense with benefits and they turn it down because it will remove public assistance from their life and make it harder. I'd rather pay my own way guess that's why I changed.

Don't get me wrong eithet public assistance needs to be there for situations where you come on hard times. But it shouldn't be a lifestyle. I've actually stopped my unemployment to make less just because I'd rather work vs sitting around sucking the system even more dry than It already is.
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Mattstang makes a great point. I tried to help this guy out. In the 6 months he has been here is pay has been increased twice. He has received $3.50/hr in raises in that 6 months. He leaves early quite a bit hardly even making his 40 hours a week. He has had plenty of opportunity to work OT. He turns it down because if he makes too much his assistance will be taken away. See the problem with the system?

 

[ToyKraz]

I am going to let this die now. Maybe I am just in a bad mood since I am STILL at work at 7pm.

 

[Dino]

Mattstang makes a great point. I tried to help this guy out. In the 6 months he has been here is pay has been increased twice. He has received $3.50/hr in raises in that 6 months. He leaves early quite a bit hardly even making his 40 hours a week. He has had plenty of opportunity to work OT. He turns it down because if he makes too much his assistance will be taken away. See the problem with the system?

I do see that problem there is a gap where it actually makes it difficult to get off assistance. That is a system problem not his problem and it needs to be fixed.

I am not saying there no improvements that could be made to the system but I don't judge individuals who need the assistance.

 

[Dino]

I've made less than that with a family of three and belive me its a lot of incentive to do better. its all the supprt that can let you get comfortable. I know people that make less than that and have way less stress than me. Because of all the assistance they get and are perfectly content at it. I've offered some of them work at about 20 an hour plus 700 a week tax exempt living expense with benefits and they turn it down because it will remove public assistance from their life and make it harder. I'd rather pay my own way guess that's why I changed.

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My point exactly, thanks

 

[Vonderbach]

The government considers earned income to be little more than $1. The person that my rant was directed towards has worked a grand total of 2 weeks during 2009. She lost her job because she was mouthy and didn't show up for work. She continues to be unemployed because she won't get a job. She won't get a job because she has children. She won't put the children in day care because she doesn't have a job. But let's not ask that she spends the $5K on day care when there are all kinds of cool drugs that they can buy...why get daycare when you can get high?

Dino, I love your optimism, but most people do not use that money for legitimate purposes. I realize it's anecdotal, but I know several people that take that money and run our and buy extravangant pleasures that they cannot afford. They don't use it for further their lives, they use it to buy goodies...and it almost certainly doesn't go for children.

Also, I want to be clear. There are numerous people on this board that are out of work for reasons beyond their control. This is not directed towards them. This is directed towards people that don't work, refuse to work, yet still collect that fat check every year on the taxpayer dime.

 

[Mr Brown]

The government considers earned income to be little more than $1. The person that my rant was directed towards has worked a grand total of 2 weeks during 2009. She lost her job because she was mouthy and didn't show up for work. She continues to be unemployed because she won't get a job. She won't get a job because she has children. She won't put the children in day care because she doesn't have a job. But let's not ask that she spends the $5K on day care when there are all kinds of cool drugs that they can buy...why get daycare when you can get high?

Dino, I love your optimism, but most people do not use that money for legitimate purposes. I realize it's anecdotal, but I know several people that take that money and run our and buy extravangant pleasures that they cannot afford. They don't use it for further their lives, they use it to buy goodies...and it almost certainly doesn't go for children.

Also, I want to be clear. There are numerous people on this board that are out of work for reasons beyond their control. This is not directed towards them. This is directed towards people that don't work, refuse to work, yet still collect that fat check every year on the taxpayer dime.

And Dino knows everything you said to be true. I think he just gets bored when his supply of "medicine" runs low and likes to rant and stir the pot.
You know, may as well stir it if you can't smoke it right?

 

[skydivr]

First off personal attacks are not welcome.

Secondly what you did has very little impact on the problem. If we could go back in time maybe that family would not have chosen to have kids, but we can't do that so you have to address the problem at hand. How do you provide for the general welfare of these kids so that they can become productive citizens. Or else they don't become productive and continue to cycle of gov assistance or go to prison, either way it will cost us.

Lastly who says they are not responsible for providing for them?

The problem is that we are creating the INCENTIVE for people who can't afford it to have more children without regard for how they are going to pay for them, "the Gov't will provide".

I didn't have a child until I was 40. Gonna hate it when she's 20 and I'm 60 having to beat the crap out of the boys coming around!

 

[Mr Brown]

Gonna hate it when she's 20 and I'm 60 having to beat the crap out of the boys coming around!

That's what guns are for my friend.....

 

[skydivr]

"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*
* Adrian Rogers, (1931-2005)

 

[skydivr]

That's what guns are for my friend.....

Believe my, I've got that covered ???

 

[Takeuon]

Don't even get me started! I'm sitting here going thru a divorce, alreadly watching the dollars flow away to my F'ing attorney. The Mother of my Daughter whom I PAY CHILD SUPPORT to already, currently custody of my Daughter...and her stank azz will get the EIC as well!!! 4
Not only am I not getting a return this year (1st year ever since I've held a job) because I had to file: Married-Filing Seperately , but I owe the g-damn government $1500!!! 4

Think I'm going to be sick uke:

 

[Mr Brown]

"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*
* Adrian Rogers, (1931-2005)

True statement, but it ignores my personal position, which is how much wealth does an individual truly need? At what point does a persons social conscience become eroded? How rich does one have to be in order to ignore those whom one could help? When individuals amass huge quantities of personal wealth, more than they could ever possibly spend, I believe that it should be their pleasure to assist others who are in need.

 

[skydivr]

True statement, but it ignores my personal position, which is how much wealth does an individual truly need? At what point does a persons social conscience become eroded? How rich does one have to be in order to ignore those whom one could help? When individuals amass huge quantities of personal wealth, more than they could ever possibly spend, I believe that it should be their pleasure to assist others who are in need.

I could agree with this, except who has the right to tell you that except your own conscience? You can't legislate that. Apparently our government thinks $250,000/year is the "how much" tipping point...

 

[afterhours]

True statement, but it ignores my personal position, which is how much wealth does an individual truly need? At what point does a persons social conscience become eroded? How rich does one have to be in order to ignore those whom one could help? When individuals amass huge quantities of personal wealth, more than they could ever possibly spend, I believe that it should be their pleasure to assist others who are in need.

this is the problem.....you cannot legislate conscience, or morality.

its not your place to tell anyone what to do with thier money.


guy A make $50k, and has 3 kids......pays $6k in taxes

guy B makes $250k, has 3 kids(in private school) and pays $67k


guy B makes 5x times what guy A does.....yet he pays over 8x times the taxes.
guy B pays $61k more in taxes.


how is this fair?

what is the difference between the guy getting welfare, and guy paying $6k in taxes but getting a refund ? both are getting more than what they put in.

 

[StromBusa]

How else ya gonna swell the liberal hords....

 

[Vonderbach]

True statement, but it ignores my personal position, which is how much wealth does an individual truly need? At what point does a persons social conscience become eroded? How rich does one have to be in order to ignore those whom one could help? When individuals amass huge quantities of personal wealth, more than they could ever possibly spend, I believe that it should be their pleasure to assist others who are in need.

How many millionaires do you know that are just stashing their money under a mattress? Most millionaires are reinvesting and churning the economic engine. When these guys buy mansions and yachts, they're contributing to employment of others, who feed their families and pay taxes.

 

[Robot]

How many millionaires do you know that are just stashing their money under a mattress? Most millionaires are reinvesting and churning the economic engine. When these guys buy mansions and yachts, they're contributing to employment of others, who feed their families and pay taxes.

I know quite a few Millionaires, and one Billionaire, the ones I know ALL have one thing in common................................

They all live well below thier means, the billionaire drives her own Cadillac and doesnt have a yacht or any such things, but she does employ many with her business's

 

[Vonderbach]

I know quite a few Millionaires, and one Billionaire, the ones I know all have one thing in common................................

They all live well below thier means, the billionaire drives her own Cadillac and doesnt have a yacht or any such things, but she does employ many with her business's

You should read (or listen to) The Millionaire Next Door. The habits and behaviors of most millionaires would shock most people. Sounds like you're already intimately aware.