How far are we willing to go?

[Blanca BusaLess]

Days and weeks huh cap? So like they sit around and watch em wiggle for a few weeks and then decide it will be too expensive to raise a handicapped child so they....what....?

'abort' is too clean. How exactly do you abort a living creature outside its mothers womb?
Put a mask over its face, snap its neck like a chicken, quick injection?
I cannot fathom that?

Their eyes would be open. Their mind semi conscience of the world around them.
And then to snuff that out is incredible.


This idea is not fantasy but actually born in history. Civilizations have disposed of unhealthy or not perfect infants for thousands of years. We have all seen the movie '300' I'd guess. In the beginning where it shows them tossing weak babies over a cliff is based on some fact. We are only coming full circle I guess and turning back into unconscionable animals?

 

[lil charlie]

The courts would never allow this. That would be murder no matter how you slice it. I am Pro-choice but against abortion. Its up to the woman if she wants to abort, shes the one who has to life with that decision for the rest of her life. This will never go anywhere, its just a couple of doctors starting crap.

 

[captain]

The courts would never allow this. That would be murder no matter how you slice it. I am Pro-choice but against abortion. Its up to the woman if she wants to abort, shes the one who has to life with that decision for the rest of her life. This will never go anywhere, its just a couple of doctors starting crap.

FYI this has been going on for some time... How do you think abortion got started in the first place? Someone started thinking about the Ethics of it...

 

[Mr Brown]

I'm pro-choice, and this isn't abortion. We have to get to the morals of the issue. Not the moral values that come from requiring other people to accept the religious teachings of others, but the basic universal human values we all have inside. Every human on earth knows that this is different from abortion, some may justify or rationalize it through various means, but all know the difference. I believe that it's wrong, under no circumstances should it be allowed to happen.

 

[Mr Brown]

I don't think we'd ever pass a law allowing a person to be killed.

We have several already, death penalty and justifiable homicide are two examples.

 

[Mr Brown]

Of course! Just like Hitler did under his rule.

Umm, all governments define what's legal by passing laws. By definition the only thing that makes anything illegal is that there is a law against it. Now, what constitutes something being wrong is another animal entirely. Hitler made things that were morally reprehensible perfectly legal, but that didn't make them right.

 

[bigron]

I think this topic touches a fine line between abortion , euthanasia and murder. What can be done will specifically be dictated according to the circumstances of each case. Personally , abortion done at the correct time or to avoid further suffering to the baby should be acceptable. The center point being the well being of the baby/fetus. However , the word I would use will be Euthanasia and not really abortion if the child is even few days old and then put to rest. My knowledge on the subject is purely due to my legal profession and regular interaction with medical professionals and i am not aware of how the US medical fraternity operates.

 

[VIPER]

I am pro-life period. Abortion is murder period. There are no exceptions. Anyone who has an abortion or takes part in an abortion in my opinion is a murderer no exceptions.

"I am Pro-Life with a couple exceptions. Rape and incest are the two glaring exceptions especially if the victim of these two crimes is a child.
Abortion in a lot of cases is a tool of convenience and used as such many many times."

You bring up some good issues here. But is it really any different because the child was a result of rape? Is it ok to murder the child because of how it was made? Life starts at inception not when you finish incubating.

 

[BusaBret]

I am pro-life period. Abortion is murder period. There are no exceptions. Anyone who has an abortion or takes part in an abortion in my opinion is a murderer no exceptions.

"I am Pro-Life with a couple exceptions. Rape and incest are the two glaring exceptions especially if the victim of these two crimes is a child.
Abortion in a lot of cases is a tool of convenience and used as such many many times."

You bring up some good issues here. But is it really any different because the child was a result of rape? Is it ok to murder the child because of how it was made? Life starts at inception not when you finish incubating.

I am not gonna debate my stance(Tufbusa told me I didn't have the intelect for debating). Evidently someone close to you has never been a victim of rape or incest.

I will not discuss my reasons on an open forum but would be willing to discuss this privately. I will pm you my cell# and if you so choose, call me. If not then I respect your stance and hope you are human enough to return the favor.

From my dunce stool :cookoo:

 

[sherekhan]

Wow this is just insane.

We are all damaged goods in the first place, and now they want to bump a kid off because he had problems?
Where does it stop? If you open your mouth and speak out against something they censor you :talk2hand:now so what's to stop them fom saying that an adult that is depressed is a danger to the public and bump him off?
:wtf:

Me personally I go with what the creator says, life begins at conception, that's why if two men fought and hurt a pregnate woman they would forfeit their lives, eye for eye tooth for tooth life for life.

As far as I can see, mankind loves to put their own twist on things, :stoopid:and sooner rather than later we find out just how bad off we are because of it.:butbut: I love kids and personally think the only people that get anything out of killing are the ones that get paid to do it.

No one knows how they will feel until after the ultimate decision call is made. The kid didn't do anything to deserve it, he's just doing what he was made to do.

In my entire life I have never heard of a mentally retarded person killing themselves or wishing they hadn't been born.

As far as I know it's only those of us that really know just he bad it is that want to date the so Cap as far as my 2 cents it's murder and in the great State of Nevada you still get to explain to a judge why you killed someone.

It's really funny how to attempt suicide many years ago was a crime punishable by death, but now you can be bumped off just because someone doesn't want you around.:bump:

Think about it some of the greatest minds ever know had issues, most people thought Einstein was nuts but he unlocked the universe, Stephen Hawkins can't speak but is over the top with theory and explains more about everything than all of us on this forum put together.

Really to me in most instances it comes down to a few things.

Money, no one wants another mouth to feed the State doesn't want to take care of them and it's a burden to have them around.

Mother/Father shouldnt have been playing house in the first place and dont want to deal with the Oops that has come naturally, if you don't want a ticket don't speed if you love speed and can't pay for track time don't cry when you get a ticket!

You play you pay, don't act like its a game and you can hit the reset button, dead is dead period.

As for the harder things, place the blame where it needs to be placed. I had the same thing happen to my daughter, guy did the unthinkable and I wanted him dead. But never once did I resent my grandson because of what someone else did, not his fault. As Rob Roy said "It's not the child that needs killin" and the guy that did it got his in jail when they found out he rapped a 14 year old kid.

Cap I hope I was respectful to your question but this is a very deep subject for me, and I thank you for giving me a chance to post my opinion on the matter, I tried to lighten the mood a bit to keep from losing it because of my kid.

Thank you

 

[VIPER]

You bet Bret I can respect your stance for sure. Part of being human is the capability to decide to respect or not others opinion. I do respect your opinions and those of others. I might not agree but I sure can respect them. I am at work so I can't buzz ya right now. But if you don't mind I will hang on to your number and buzz ya.

 

[BusaBret]

You bet Bret I can respect your stance for sure. Part of being human is the capability to decide to respect or not others opinion. I do respect your opinions and those of others. I might not agree but I sure can respect them. I am at work so I can't buzz ya right now. But if you don't mind I will hang on to your number and buzz ya.

Absolutely. Look forward to speaking with you

From my dunce stool :cookoo:

 

[Fastfrog007]

This is Sparta! Apparently....
So who determines what level of handicapped a child needs to be to qualify to be killed?
Severe mental problems?
Maybe some level of parapalegia?
How about a musclular disorder?
Blindness?
Why stop there, perhaps race should be considered too, how about hair color, or even a lazy eye?
Let's just kill everything we don't like, I'm sure that'll work out....
Insanity.

Smellphone via Forum Runner

 

[StromBusa]

I don't know how we find people willing to kill "pinkies" born or unborn. I guess the defenseless are easier, hard to imagine. I agree that if a girl is raped and wants the demon seed cut from her, she should get her way, and cut that gene pool short, along with the father. But there is no valid distinction about the killin part, alive is alive & dead is dead.

 

[BusaWhipped]

I'm pro-life. How can you believe it's It's just a choice at one point murder at another. If it's the mother's choice whether or not to kill her child, then it shouldn't matter when she does it. Either it's always murder or it's always a choice.

 

[Lycan]

It's hard to draw a line. I am pro choice but I really do not approve of it. I feel if that person wants to do it, it is their choice that they have to live with and be judged for in the end.

Aborting a baby that has actually been born is murder though...

Im with Russ...enough said...

 

[m_ridgeway]

This is created for pro life people to push their agenda, in that a fetus and an infant both lack right to life, thats the position taken by the article that whipped everyone into a frenzy.

Im pro choice in the fact I don't think gov should be able to tell you what to do, although I don't agree with it in all cases it's not my place to say whos living right and wrong. Imho theres a huge difference in early term abortion and partial or post birth abortion.

To condemn all people that have participated in an abortion a murderer is pretty close minded, you can't know why everyone has an abortion. Would you be a murderer if you had to remove a loved one from life support or put in a dnr? The reason for people to make decisions like these are not selfishness but selflessness. They will have a decision to make that will affect them morally for the ready of their life. Should you make someone live a poor quality of life and suffer multiple recitations, live by machine only to prove to yourself that you wanted them to live, or is knowing that you let them go the easy way to not make them suffer enough?

Abortions of convenience I don't agree with, neither do I of abortions of healthy embryos/babies. But its legal right now. I also happen to think people getting pregnant all the time isn't right either, yet thats perfectly legal to have all the kids you want and not be able to support them. If we can regulate who's choice it is to end an unborn why can't we regulate the right to have a child?

 

[VaBusa]

I haven't heard of this. I'll say though, lately, NOTHING shocks me anymore...

I'm pro-choice, but I also know I could not have ever made the decision to abort in my own life...very personal decision for any woman to have to make, and I can live with the decision of being pro-choice as long as there are rigid guidelines in place. Law was that you had to terminate within the first 12 weeks, but I won't lie, as I get older, even that upsets me anymore. If this is truly something being discussed as a new guideline, then we're getting ready to (or have) mandated legal murder of a child.

That is a line that should never be crossed, ever.

 

[TWT racer]

This is a discussion that we need to keep cool heads on and not get emotional..
Cap

all due respect man, but you expect me to "keep cool" in something as................................................... as this?

....put your feet on a red hot piece of steel and let me tell you don't twitch, don't move

 

[TWT racer]

I haven't heard of this. I'll say though, lately, NOTHING shocks me anymore...

That is a line that should never be crossed, ever.

Sadly there's way way to many lines we as a society have crossed long long time ago...
anyways, I need to not read anymore here