Gen1 Clutch Mod or Not? Thoughts.........

SSGT_B

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So I don’t race the bike, heck I barley ride mostly due to hand issues. I ordered new clutches last night ( no clue if I really need them), for 113$ shipped. Figured I would just put them on the shelf if not needed. I have seen multiple discussion on the use of this for a racing application but what about street. Also I was looking at the MPS ring vs the Brock’s welded. What’s y’alls take on this?

Pic of ring
1608736
 
Same mod for the Gen 2, I watched quite a few videos on the subject and everyone who does it seems to both like it and think it necessary.

At some point I will do it myself, so far the bike I have works well for me and my riding style so I'm in no big hurry.
 
That’s kinda where I’m at. My bike works for me. I’m just thinking if I have it apart, should I. Or not hassle and save the 50 bucks
 
That’s kinda where I’m at. My bike works for me. I’m just thinking if I have it apart, should I. Or not hassle and save the 50 bucks
You bought the clutch to go on the shelf, get this and put it in the same place...if the day comes along you want to change out the clutch, do it at the same time..if it's getting taken apart, this is a very simple step to add to the process...

Personally, I'm not taking apart a very good working clutch to put this in...I'll wait until I change out my clutch plates down the road. I might pick it up sooner due to availability...I'm kind of waiting until c10 does his mod and how it works as I might go that route as well...
 

we here in berlin have some experiances with that - me also with my gen I 2000 busa.

1. you only need the ring and stronger springs when your busa is "jumping" (kangaroo) when starting / releasing clutch in 1st gear,
because the "extra pressing power increasing function" of #5 (we call it "star") in fiche - (its, #5, "ramps" can not work correctly any more) is eliminated by the ring.

1608737


believe in me - dozens of experiances here in germany
2. strongly recommended - if you put in the stronger springs in a gen I clutch you definitely NEED a piece of alu (an angled bracket) crossover the cylinders housing so this bracket strongers your front sprocket cover.

follow blue arrows to silver piece crossing the housing (white arrow) in the pic of my busa below
ungsfedern%20staerker%20-%20Buegel%20an%20Nehmer_3.jpg

if not the sprocket cover will brake - pretty unfunny!

this bracket is NOT necessary at gen II - their sprocket cover is strongered

and yes the "star´s" function sometimes is also called "anti hopping"
its main function isn´t a anti hopping but it gives clutch the chance to slide a bit when you release throttle very quick at high rpm´s
reason - the original springs are a little weak / less strong - result : a bit like anti hopping but not the real one.

that info is what i got from suzuki germany to my query if we have a real anti hoping in our haya´s

summary :
we have no real anti hopping - it is simulated by weak / less strong springs

if you put in the stronger springs you loose this eventual clutch sliding.
and
only the ring allone makes no sense - you then need also the stronger springs when adding the ring.
 
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we here in berlin have some experiances with that - me also with my gen I 2000 busa.

1. you only need the ring and stronger springs when your busa is "jumping" (kangaroo) when starting / releasing clutch in 1st gear,
because the "extra pressing power increasing function" of #5 (we call it "star") in fiche - (its, #5, "ramps" can not work correctly any more) is eliminated by the ring.

View attachment 1608737

believe in me - dozens of experiances here in germany
2. strongly recommended - if you put in the stronger springs in a gen I clutch you definitely NEED a piece of alu (an angled bracket) crossover the cylinders housing so this bracket strongers your front sprocket cover.

follow blue arrows to silver piece crossing the housing (white arrow) in the pic of my busa below
View attachment 1608738
if not the sprocket cover will brake - pretty unfunny!

this bracket is NOT necessary at gen II - their sprocket cover is strongered

and yes the "star´s" function sometimes is also called "anti hopping"
its main function isn´t a anti hopping but it gives clutch the chance to slide a bit when you release throttle very quick at high rpm´s
reason - the original springs are a little weak / less strong - result : a bit like anti hopping but not the real one.

that info is what i got from suzuki germany to my query if we have a real anti hoping in our haya´s

summary :
we have no real anti hopping - it is simulated by weak / less strong springs

if you put in the stronger springs you loose this eventual clutch sliding.
and
only the ring allone makes no sense - you then need also the stronger springs when adding the ring.
You're right about one thing, if you run heavier springs in a Gen 1, a slave support is a good idea. It's cheap insurance.
In regards to the clutch mod the OP asked about, it replaces the "back torque limiter" which is commonly (but incorrectly) referred to as a slipper clutch. It's designed to prevent rear wheel lockup on aggressive downshifts, but it interferes with smooth clutch operation on hard launches as well. If you don't ride hard you'll probably never have noticed it, but replacing it with a welded mod or ring won't hurt anything.
 
So I don’t race the bike, heck I barley ride mostly due to hand issues. I ordered new clutches last night ( no clue if I really need them), for 113$ shipped. Figured I would just put them on the shelf if not needed. I have seen multiple discussion on the use of this for a racing application but what about street. Also I was looking at the MPS ring vs the Brock’s welded. What’s y’alls take on this?

My Busa goes to the drag strip pretty often. I did the Brock's Clutch Mod on my 04 without the Cushion Kit. Works fine. Got rid of the jumping when I launch. BUT... If you're not going to the strip. Or doing some really hard launches on the street. There's really no need for it. The MPS Clutch Mod works the same as Brock's. And costs less. I went with Brock's because it's lighter and a better balanced part.
 
The only “jumping” I get is when I put it in gear from neutral. Not when I release the clutch. That’s what has made me think a possible clutch issue. Warped plate? Worn fibers? Does not slip and has no engagement problems from gear to gear
 
The only “jumping” I get is when I put it in gear from neutral. Not when I release the clutch. That’s what has made me think a possible clutch issue. Warped plate? Worn fibers? Does not slip and has no engagement problems from gear to gear
Clutch plates have worn a little is all. If you have it on a rear stand in gear with the clutch pulled all the way in, the wheel will be spinning slightly. Not a big deal, but replacing the clutch plates should solve it if it bugs you.
 
So I don’t race the bike, heck I barley ride mostly due to hand issues. I ordered new clutches last night ( no clue if I really need them), for 113$ shipped. Figured I would just put them on the shelf if not needed. I have seen multiple discussion on the use of this for a racing application but what about street. Also I was looking at the MPS ring vs the Brock’s welded. What’s y’alls take on this?

Pic of ring
View attachment 1608736
The Capenter Mod does everything the brocks does for a third the price very happy with it. Is it needed on the street most likey not but why not if you get after it here and there. A support system brace is a must for the outer opposite side of the clutch if heavy springs a used as it kicks into place with authority & will crack the housing on over time.
 
The only “jumping” I get is when I put it in gear from neutral. (...)

hell - it is very difficult for me to explain the technique in english but i´ll try to.
therefore, please read my text with the utmost indulgence. ;)

A. MY "jumping" means that the clutch seems not to know what to do - grip or no grip
as if you pull and release very quick the handle - i call this the "kangaroo - feeling"

B. please remember that in principle, you must note that when inserting the first gear (from neutral) and standing bike actually every motorcycle a very little forward jerks - even with optimal clutch.

the more it tries to jerk forward, when inserting the first gear, the greater the likelihood is that
a - there is still air in the system
b - the friction and steel plates slightly stick (if the engine is cold or has stood longer times, e.g. 4-5 months over winter)
c - if the engine is hot, the DOT is old (over 2-3 years) and might have drawn water (DOT "4" or "5.1" is hygroscopic) which then forms vapor bubbles in the system what´s the same feeling is like air in system

if pt. a - bleed as usual again and if this still doesn´t work, do the bleeding the other way around - means downside up
by bleeding the clutch-slave at first
- by opening the upper reservoir and empty it + get rid of the black mud
- get the DOT-bottle reachable !
- unscrew hose and banjo bolt at slave
- unscrew the slave itself (only by puting off the entire front sprocket cover)
- release slowly slave´s piston as far out it wants to go / the spring behind moves him but piston can´t fall out
- keep the slave´s inner thread vertikal up and fill carefully the slave by a syringe till there is no more air inside / perhaps the DOT flows over a very little bit - wipe that away
- mount now again hose and tighten its banjo bolt as tight as possible in your hand (pay big attention to hose´s later correct position)
- now push / press slowly the piston back into slave what makes the DOT "climb" the way up to handpump and - yeah - bleeding same time the hose (X) and filling the upper reservoir a little bit - attention - if you press the piston to hard you will have a fountain upside and the DOT all over the bike
- keep the cylinder tight inside slave and fill up with your other hand (DOT-bottle is, i hope, easily reachable / very near by) the upper reservoir up to its inner mark
- release then the slave´s piston slowly and watch by that the level up in the reservoir & refill a bit again till mark
- mount slave (sprocket cover - its 6 mm screws get 10 Nm) and tighten now the banjo bolt with 22 Nm
- mount reservoir´s lid/cap (screws only 3 Nm) and you´re finished with clutch bleeding

if pt. b - leave it as it is - to me it seems normal
if you wanna give 110% to your clutch :
put the friction plates out, bathe them in oil, then wipe them off a bit by hand (no cloth or so) and then reinsert them

if pt. c - change old DOT to brand new because the old one might have taken water over the years ==> vapor bubbles when hot ==> bad clutch


BUT please never! use DOT "5.0" - the silicone in there is absolutely 100% lethal for all japanese (and european) rubber hoses and gaskets you have in the clutch or brake system.
okay you took steel braided brake hoses and think "5.0" is ok - but then you forget all the rubber gaskets in the pumps, calippers and clutch slave !



(X) physical explanation:
a fluid (here the DOT) works, if slow enough and inner diameter of pipe or hose is not to big, like a "piston in a pipe" and pushes all air in front and out. result. pipe / hose gets bleeded
 
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