do you really need to drag your knee?

[Dragon]

Tufbusa is spot on. i also pick up my knee unless i need to go over farther or i'm coming around a corner with the photographer. i only try to drag on the track, btw

but it is a VERY memorable experience! first time you touch you'll say "OH SH*T!!!!" and think something is wrong lol. scares everyone the first time

 

[jellyrug]

Good thread.

I look at this from purely a technical Newtonian viewpoint and here is my shortest explanation of how I understand it.

With a car we have 4 wheels, so to corner we turn the front wheels, and the rear wheels follow. More mass gets distributed on the wheels outer side of corner and less inner side, due to the centripetal force of the velocity in the curve.

With a bike, two wheels are missing, so if we turn the steering left, the centripetal force will make the bike lean right. Now we have to turn the steering slightly right to correct and the bike will turn right. The bike has to lean to the right to counteract the centripetal force of the curved path. In fact, you may not realize it, but while leaning over you are actually turning the steering to the right, balancing the centrapetal force with the amount you are leaning and turning in. We learn how to do this as kids riding bicycles, but we never think about how it actually works. It just becomes natural. Don't believe me, do a sharp corner at 10 mph and concentrate on what is actually going on.

To drag a knee and an elbow for Mr. Spies, you are displacing the center of gravity of the bike as much as you possibly can towards the inside of the curve, this helps counter acting the centripetal force, reduces your lean angle, makes the turn safer and faster.

If you move the center of gravity to the inside of the curve as much as you can by displacing your body and the bike leans as much as it can, some body part will touch the pavement, better your knee than something else.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

By the way, it took Orville and Wilber Wright (fist flight North Carolina) some time to figure this out in the early 1900's.

 

[pashnit]

This thread needs more pics.



What the screenshot from the GoPro video looked like.

 

[racerV]

Tufbusa is spot on. i also pick up my knee unless i need to go over farther or i'm coming around a corner with the photographer. i only try to drag on the track, btw

but it is a VERY memorable experience! first time you touch you'll say "OH SH*T!!!!" and think something is wrong lol. scares everyone the first time

The 1st time I touched, my heat shield on my exhaust also touched. I definitely said OH SH!T!!!!

 

[sixpack577]

There are speeds and lines that you have no choice. There are plenty of times you can without needing to, and that can slow you down.

 

[Tufbusa]

Tim, how the hell do you get that knee puck to stick to the tip of your knee?

It looks magical!

 

[Tufbusa]

There are speeds and lines that you have no choice. There are plenty of times you can without needing to, and that can slow you down.

You totally lost me?

 

[sixpack577]

You totally lost me?

How so? There are plenty of corners that I can drag my knee through, yet I've found that my knee down isn't always the best or fastest line. And that some curves if I continue to go faster, the lean angle required to make it through at that speed would be so far over that my is down anyway.
I of course don't claim to be a track guy, but where am I going wrong then?

 

[Tufbusa]

How so? There are plenty of corners that I can drag my knee through, yet I've found that my knee down isn't always the best or fastest line. And that some curves if I continue to go faster, the lean angle required to make it through at that speed would be so far over that my is down anyway.
I of course don't claim to be a track guy, but where am I going wrong then?

I guess I'm just having a hard time grasping the idea that touching a knee down to judge lean angle would slow corner speed? I'm also unsure of what line choice would have to do with whether or not to use your knee?

Just confused on how that would work? If you could help me out with details would be great.

 

[captain]

I dont make a habit of draggin a knee on the street but I have been known to see a sweet corner and go deep into the corner and then lay it over, it's fun... At the track there are absolutely lines you can take and be fast and not have to get a knee down but I often go deep on those corners so I can work on my body position and not have to keep a lot of speed up. At the track I am not about going fast I am all about learning how to save myself on the street should I ever need to react quickly. I say its better to practice getting a knee down on the track with some practice and confidence than to see if you can do it on the street in a crisis.

A perfect example is when we went to Eureka Springs last year, we found a hwy that didn't have any traffic for hours at a time. It was smooth, you could see all the way through the corner and we just camped out there for hours just laughing, watching each other and practicing. You don't have to carry speed all the time, Macon told me to go to a parking lot to practice so I did and I almost got it done there. I went to the track and the first corner I touched on was the slowest corner there is. As my mentors have told me, work on technique and lines and the speed will come in time...(WITH LESS EFFORT I MIGHT ADD)

 

[sixpack577]

I guess I'm just having a hard time grasping the idea that touching a knee down to judge lean angle would slow corner speed? I'm also unsure of what line choice would have to do with whether or not to use your knee?

Just confused on how that would work? If you could help me out with details would be great.

It's probably more my riding style(and bad habits).
Ever since I got a Busa of my own my cornering is much different than 1000's. I thought at first that the busa was just as fast through them, but I've since changed my mind. I really have to hang my ass of the side of the seat to get a knee down on the Busa, and I've scraped my right lower fairing(and both stock mufflers when I had them)too many times. Yes, asking for a lowside. Despite the slight extra effort to flick the Busa side to side, it just doesn't handle quite the same as the 1000...obviously. On the 1000s my side to side movement in the seat is minimal in comparison, and my knees hit much easier.
I guess I'm not too good at explaining it. Every year I try for a trackday and something always falls through. I'm hoping to meet some org guys at VIR when it warms up and work the bugs out.

 

[Tufbusa]

Good Post Cap!

Choosing a good line is first and foremost the most important aspect of cornering. Poor line choice will get you into trouble more often than anything else.

Dragging your knee should be the by product of proper cornering.

 

[Tufbusa]

It's probably more my riding style(and bad habits).
I guess I'm not too good at explaining it. Every year I try for a trackday and something always falls through. I'm hoping to meet some org guys at VIR when it warms up and work the bugs out.

You'll have just as much fun on your busa at the track as the guys on lighter bikes. She's just a little bigger and less agile but just as much fun!

I'm sure you can find guys from the org to hang out with at the track. Makes your track day lots more fun with friends!

 

[pashnit]

Tim, how the hell do you get that knee puck to stick to the tip of your knee?

It looks magical!

Everything is velcro so you can play with the position of the puck. Sideways, back forth. How the slider contacts the ground has a lot to do with the lean angle and body position.

The sparky ones are really thick and a softer material.



The Dianese/Alpine Stars ones are were smaller and harder material. Plus as they wear off, you rotate them around to use up all the material.

 

[skydivr]

I'm still trying to get past the memory of the first time I saw my wife in her underwear SteveO you have such a way with words

I'm still in that excitement mode of "almost there, almost there!" trying to touch that knee. While I've done it a few times on the track, I'm still not comfortable with it yet; I'm sure after that it won't be nearly a big a deal as it is right now....

 

[Tufbusa]

I'm still trying to get past the memory of the first time I saw my wife in her underwear SteveO you have such a way with words

I'm still in that excitement mode of "almost there, almost there!" trying to touch that knee. While I've done it a few times on the track, I'm still not comfortable with it yet; I'm sure after that it won't be nearly a big a deal as it is right now....

 

[Jet Li]

In the Goldwing video, you hear hard parts dragging. Not good anytime to do this. There is no lean angle left and loss of traction at the rear wheel = crash. I am amazed a rider will ride on the edge of disaster, for any reason. Like others have stated, knee dragging on the street is a risky practice. It is even more risky if you are trying to learn on the street. Track days are where a rider should learn proper technique. The object of riding in a corner should not be to get your knee down. It should be a side effect of proper riding technique. If I rider's sole intention is to "drag a knee" and has not learned proper cornering technique, it is almost inevitable he/she will crash. A very high price to pay for dragging a knee.

Nothing else really needs to be said!

 

[skydivr]

Sorry SteveO, if i described it for you, it might give an old man like you a heart attack!

 

[Tufbusa]

OMG, now I'm living my life precariously through you!

 

[skydivr]

We are getting waaaay off-topic, but I call BS!