Leaning or hanging (knee dragging)
- Thread starter steelhead
- Start date
Hanging is a safer method when you know how to position your body correctly. The reason is the more you hang-off, the less the bike has to lean which is safer. Even racers try to minimize the time they are at maximum lean because you can't agrressively brake or accelerate at full lean.
But, hanging off requires much more effort. Its definately a work out for the legs
But, hanging off requires much more effort. Its definately a work out for the legs
CorrodedAlien
Registered
mjn... what tires did you go with?
TheAtomicAss
Registered
Body position does a lot to alter the turning ability of a motorcycle. All turns being equal, hanging off reduces the lean angle of the bike by putting more weight into the turn.
It's a matter of preference when it's used.
CorrodedAlien
Registered
...agreed. I use my body when I want/need a little more. Normally I do not.
Try a known set of turns both ways. Try "hanging" off the right side only and remaining on the seat center on the left. This will give you the time to get setup for each right hander by getting off the seat BEFORE entering the turn. Start with just one cheek and using your knee to hold the tank.
It's fun, but takes practice, practice, practice...
Try a known set of turns both ways. Try "hanging" off the right side only and remaining on the seat center on the left. This will give you the time to get setup for each right hander by getting off the seat BEFORE entering the turn. Start with just one cheek and using your knee to hold the tank.
It's fun, but takes practice, practice, practice...
Since confidence will crash you faster than anything else, doing whatever makes you the most comfortable will be the best.
With that said the physics of perfromance riding a motorcycle don't change just because your confidence does. The lower you can get the center of gravity the less lean angle you will need to counter act the leveraging forces of centrifugal force trying to throw you off the road.
By keeping your weight on the pegs and hanging off you are lowering that center of gravity and giving it less leverage on your motorcycle, therefore less lean angle is required. It also depends on the corners your taking, sometimes shifting your body from left to right for quick transitions can upset the suspension and your two preciously small contact patches. So you must practice and get comfortable with when it should be used and when it shouldn't be.
Dragging a knee does several things:
1. inside knee hanging out creates wind drag on the turn in side which facilitates an easier turn.
2. getting off and down low lowers center of gravity for the bike/rider.
3. dragging your knee gives you a gauge of how far your bike is leaned over
4. being closer to the ground mentally/emotionally feels safer. Sounds odd but it's true, at least for me. It has something to do with your mind thinking if I fall from way up here on the saddle going this fast I will bounce. If I fall being this close to the ground already I will slide.
Get on a track and practice these skills even if you don't want to become a racer. It will help you understand how they all fit together in a safe environment. Remember the track is a drug and can hook you quick though.
-Get set-up for your turn before the turn.
-Until you get more agressive or on a track put the crack of your ass, not past it, on the outer edge of the seat.
-Shift position your upper body like your trying to kiss your mirror.
-look through the turn or where you are going. The bike will follow.
-Throw that knee down and don't panic when you feel it contact for the first time by chopping the throttle off. This will lower the bike making it scrape more and change your weight transfer from the optimal 60-40 f-r to 30-70 f-r. That is bad juju and you might as well just hit the front brake while turning, same result.
<!--EDIT|justintime2
Reason for Edit: None given...|1149010498 -->
With that said the physics of perfromance riding a motorcycle don't change just because your confidence does. The lower you can get the center of gravity the less lean angle you will need to counter act the leveraging forces of centrifugal force trying to throw you off the road.
By keeping your weight on the pegs and hanging off you are lowering that center of gravity and giving it less leverage on your motorcycle, therefore less lean angle is required. It also depends on the corners your taking, sometimes shifting your body from left to right for quick transitions can upset the suspension and your two preciously small contact patches. So you must practice and get comfortable with when it should be used and when it shouldn't be.
Dragging a knee does several things:
1. inside knee hanging out creates wind drag on the turn in side which facilitates an easier turn.
2. getting off and down low lowers center of gravity for the bike/rider.
3. dragging your knee gives you a gauge of how far your bike is leaned over
4. being closer to the ground mentally/emotionally feels safer. Sounds odd but it's true, at least for me. It has something to do with your mind thinking if I fall from way up here on the saddle going this fast I will bounce. If I fall being this close to the ground already I will slide.
Get on a track and practice these skills even if you don't want to become a racer. It will help you understand how they all fit together in a safe environment. Remember the track is a drug and can hook you quick though.
-Get set-up for your turn before the turn.
-Until you get more agressive or on a track put the crack of your ass, not past it, on the outer edge of the seat.
-Shift position your upper body like your trying to kiss your mirror.
-look through the turn or where you are going. The bike will follow.
-Throw that knee down and don't panic when you feel it contact for the first time by chopping the throttle off. This will lower the bike making it scrape more and change your weight transfer from the optimal 60-40 f-r to 30-70 f-r. That is bad juju and you might as well just hit the front brake while turning, same result.
<!--EDIT|justintime2
Reason for Edit: None given...|1149010498 -->
gsferrari
Registered
One more question along these lines:
When I am setting myself up for a turn and during braking - I never close throttle fully...even under hard braking. I have it slightly open and ease off the brakes towards the apex. This means that I am still braking during the lean and turn in. Yes I am actually getting off the brakes gradually but the brakes are still on.
I have never had issues with the front sliding away from me - this is not the problem. The problem is that the Busa wants to pick itself up the moment I am off the brakes!!
It wants to stand up mid-corner.
I use the same technique with the GSXR-1000 and ZX-6R with good results.
Can I change something in the bike's geometry or suspension settings to counter this?
THANKS!
When I am setting myself up for a turn and during braking - I never close throttle fully...even under hard braking. I have it slightly open and ease off the brakes towards the apex. This means that I am still braking during the lean and turn in. Yes I am actually getting off the brakes gradually but the brakes are still on.
I have never had issues with the front sliding away from me - this is not the problem. The problem is that the Busa wants to pick itself up the moment I am off the brakes!!
I use the same technique with the GSXR-1000 and ZX-6R with good results.
Can I change something in the bike's geometry or suspension settings to counter this?
THANKS!
Lota Fun R
Registered
Being at least slightly leaned off in the direction of the next corner will help if it decreases more than you expected.
You can't change positions after you discover it's tighter than you thought.
But of course these are just some basic riding skills, track time and some professional instruction could make the difference on the street when you need skills you didn't have before. Or don't have now.
Invest in your riding skills.
You can't change positions after you discover it's tighter than you thought.
But of course these are just some basic riding skills, track time and some professional instruction could make the difference on the street when you need skills you didn't have before. Or don't have now.
Invest in your riding skills.
100% correct! the reason to lean is to keep the bike up for better contact to the pavement. The problem is people lean with there butt instead of dropping there body mass by bring there shoulders down. Take a look at the GP guys and you will see that most of there upper body is also below the bike, even rotating the outside leg to get the body in the best position possible. Best practice, practice and more practice!Hanging is a safer method when you know how to position your body correctly. The reason is the more you hang-off, the less the bike has to lean which is safer. Even racers try to minimize the time they are at maximum lean because you can't agrressively brake or accelerate at full lean.
But, hanging off requires much more effort. Its definately a work out for the legs
you mean when you are accelerating thru the curve it goes more upright? I didn't quite follow you. getting ON the breaks usually makes it go upright.... when I'm hiked off the side and I accelerate, I guess it does try to pull more upright, but my weight hanging off keeps it leaning and slicing thru the corner during acceleration. did that make sense?One more question along these lines:
When I am setting myself up for a turn and during braking - I never close throttle fully...even under hard braking. I have it slightly open and ease off the brakes towards the apex. This means that I am still braking during the lean and turn in. Yes I am actually getting off the brakes gradually but the brakes are still on.
I have never had issues with the front sliding away from me - this is not the problem. The problem is that the Busa wants to pick itself up the moment I am off the brakes!!It wants to stand up mid-corner.
I use the same technique with the GSXR-1000 and ZX-6R with good results.
Can I change something in the bike's geometry or suspension settings to counter this?
THANKS!
Well said, justintime2!!!
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