Conspiracy theories...

The vaccine is effective the issue is the number of mutations the virus has gone through...
Yes. More accurately, the vaccine was very effective and presently, it's probably somewhat less effective because the virus has mutated so much. After all is said and done, the main concern is "how effective is the vaccine right now." If it's only partially effective, I'm sure natural immunity is also only partially effective. I am glad to have some idea of how not effective the vaccine is though because it goes to show, I still have to take precautions around my elderly parents even though they are vaccinated.

@sixpack, I have a friend who drives and he makes what I make. Also know a guy right around here who drives and makes 120k. I just went in the cafe to pick up a fish fry. A whole bunch of high schoolers were in there having dinner. I would miss the students I get to know so much if I left this job. ...but for $120 k, no brainer! :laugh:
 
It’s NOT a vaccine according to the CDC’s own definition of what one is. Might work and it might not but one thing is for sure it’s not what they call it. Just call it what it is a ‘COVID shot’.
Not to mention that we are forcing the virus to mutate by ‘vaccinating’ so many people. ‘They’ have people convinced that it will eventually go away if everyone gets the shot. And that simply is not true. We have eliminated diseases but you can never eliminate a virus because as we see they will always mutate into a new strain. This mass ‘vaccination’ effort is simply causing it to mutate into new strains which will forever be the case, no different than the annual flu.
 
It’s NOT a vaccine according to the CDC’s own definition of what one is. Might work and it might not but one thing is for sure it’s not what they call it. Just call it what it is a ‘COVID shot’.
Not to mention that we are forcing the virus to mutate by ‘vaccinating’ so many people. ‘They’ have people convinced that it will eventually go away if everyone gets the shot. And that simply is not true. We have eliminated diseases but you can never eliminate a virus because as we see they will always mutate into a new strain. This mass ‘vaccination’ effort is simply causing it to mutate into new strains which will forever be the case, no different than the annual flu.

What a crock! Vaccinating people is forcing the virus to mutate? BS! WTH evidence is there of that?
 
It’s NOT a vaccine according to the CDC’s own definition of what one is. Might work and it might not but one thing is for sure it’s not what they call it. Just call it what it is a ‘COVID shot’.
Not to mention that we are forcing the virus to mutate by ‘vaccinating’ so many people. ‘They’ have people convinced that it will eventually go away if everyone gets the shot. And that simply is not true. We have eliminated diseases but you can never eliminate a virus because as we see they will always mutate into a new strain. This mass ‘vaccination’ effort is simply causing it to mutate into new strains which will forever be the case, no different than the annual flu.
What's causing it to mutate is people didn't get vaccinated and allowed the virus to get loose...

Even though it is an impossibility, if everyone would have been vaccinated on the first wave, that would have stifled the virus....of course that was not an option but allowing international travel to continue during the first wave was a huge mistake.

This virus is here to stay,
 
Not to mention that we are forcing the virus to mutate by ‘vaccinating’ so many people.

What a crock! Vaccinating people is forcing the virus to mutate? BS! WTH evidence is there of that?

Somebody do the reasearch for me please. Maybe I'm wrong. I looked up info weeks back. Here's how I see it:

The virus is like a huge tank of piranhas. All the piranhas have sharp teeth and they'll take a chunk out of your finger if you put your hand in the tank. But a few of the piranhas are more viscious, more hardy and not only that, they have a nerve poison. You get bit by one of them, you not only loose a chunk of your finger, your gross motor functions are down until you recover (if you recover before you get eaten alive). OK fine, you stick your hand in the tank, you probably won't get bit by one of the few paralysis fish. The tank ecosystem is stable and there is no reason for the paralysis inducing piranhas to be more successful than the much more common normal piranhas. But you put a poison on your hand that kills the normal piranha if he bites you. One bite he's dead, you don't suffer so much of an injury. Pretty soon the population of normal piranhas decreases because they are dying off from biting poison fingers. Can't survive, they bite a poisoned finger and they're history. Now you have so few piranhas in the tank, you probably won't get bit at all if you stick your hand on there. But, the paralysis piranhas now have had there competition for biting fingers dramatically reduced. If you do get bit, it will probably be a paralysis piranha. The paralysis piranhas are biting fingers as much as they can and they're immune to the poison. They thrive because the normal piranhas are mostly all gone now and they're almost the only ones left to eat and reproduce. After a while most of the piranhas in the tank are paralysis piranhas that are resistant to the piranha poison and they're extra aggressive. All in all, the use of the poison temporarily made us safer from getting bit but ultimately lead to us being a lot less safe than we were if we just stuck our hand in the tank and accepted probably getting bit by a normal piranha. It's natural selection. It happens extremely rapidly in the microbial world because mutation is something viruses do all the time regardless of the environment they're in. However, if you make the environment less favorable for less lethal viruses, that only increases that chances of survival and success of the more lethal viruses. Does a virus have to be more lethal if it is more resistant to a vaccine? No but it often is more lethal if it also is more infectious.

This still leaves the question of how polio and other viruses have been mitigated by the use of vaccines if viruses mutate to become more infectious and cause more lethal symptoms.
 
Somebody do the reasearch for me please. Maybe I'm wrong. I looked up info weeks back. Here's how I see it:

The virus is like a huge tank of piranhas. All the piranhas have sharp teeth and they'll take a chunk out of your finger if you put your hand in the tank. But a few of the piranhas are more viscious, more hardy and not only that, they have a nerve poison. You get bit by one of them, you not only loose a chunk of your finger, your gross motor functions are down until you recover (if you recover before you get eaten alive). OK fine, you stick your hand in the tank, you probably won't get bit by one of the few paralysis fish. The tank ecosystem is stable and there is no reason for the paralysis inducing piranhas to be more successful than the much more common normal piranhas. But you put a poison on your hand that kills the normal piranha if he bites you. One bite he's dead, you don't suffer so much of an injury. Pretty soon the population of normal piranhas decreases because they are dying off from biting poison fingers. Can't survive, they bite a poisoned finger and they're history. Now you have so few piranhas in the tank, you probably won't get bit at all if you stick your hand on there. But, the paralysis piranhas now have had there competition for biting fingers dramatically reduced. If you do get bit, it will probably be a paralysis piranha. The paralysis piranhas are biting fingers as much as they can and they're immune to the poison. They thrive because the normal piranhas are mostly all gone now and they're almost the only ones left to eat and reproduce. After a while most of the piranhas in the tank are paralysis piranhas that are resistant to the piranha poison and they're extra aggressive. All in all, the use of the poison temporarily made us safer from getting bit but ultimately lead to us being a lot less safe than we were if we just stuck our hand in the tank and accepted probably getting bit by a normal piranha. It's natural selection. It happens extremely rapidly in the microbial world because mutation is something viruses do all the time regardless of the environment they're in. However, if you make the environment less favorable for less lethal viruses, that only increases that chances of survival and success of the more lethal viruses. Does a virus have to be more lethal if it is more resistant to a vaccine? No but it often is more lethal if it also is more infectious.

This still leaves the question of how polio and other viruses have been mitigated by the use of vaccines if viruses mutate to become more infectious and cause more lethal symptoms.
From everything I've read, the Covid virus strains are more contagious but less severe...

Not sure about how all the other vaccines worked against the myriad of other diseases...maybe it was because they were diseases and not viruses...???
 
What a crock! Vaccinating people is forcing the virus to mutate? BS! WTH evidence is there of that?
Let me see if I can find the article that was written by one of the people who invented mRNA vaccines. But the simple proof to your question is that that is the reason the flu shot people get every year is different, it mutates in its effort to survive. The more people who get the shot for a particular strain causes all viruses to mutate in order to survive.
And no BumbleBee even if everyone got the shot same day it still would not eliminate it.
Can anyone name a single virus we have eliminated?
 
Let me see if I can find the article that was written by one of the people who invented mRNA vaccines. But the simple proof to your question is that that is the reason the flu shot people get every year is different, it mutates in its effort to survive. The more people who get the shot for a particular strain causes all viruses to mutate in order to survive.
And no BumbleBee even if everyone got the shot same day it still would not eliminate it.
Can anyone name a single virus we have eliminated?
Never said "eliminate" I said "stifle" which means slow down the mutations.

There are over 60 variants of the flu virus and that is only because the vaccine was introduced in a time when travel was much less. This virus will have more than 100 variants I'm sure...
 
From everything I've read, the Covid virus strains are more contagious but less severe...

Not sure about how all the other vaccines worked against the myriad of other diseases...maybe it was because they were diseases and not viruses...???
If the Corona viruses are mutating to less dangerous forms, that is most reassuring.

As far as disease v virus....I'd have to do about 40 minutes of Googling which I don't feel like doing right now but my impression is that a disease is ANYTHING. Arthritis is a disease. Polio is a disease. Any malady that can strike is a disease. I think the connotation of "disease" is that it generally doesn't go away with treatment and a significant number of people who get it become disabled or dead. Some diseases are caused by microbes. Other diseases are genetic. Diabetes is a disease. If you have no genetic predisposition you will probably never get it no matter how many risk factors are a part of your life. Covid is a disease but we don't call it that because few people die or are disabled from it. Leprosy is a disease and it's caused by a bacteria. Going back to polio, that is caused by a virus. So how was polio wiped out but we can't wipe out Covid? Probably because everyone pretty much had to get vaccinated against polio.

It will just take time for everyone to accept that the corona vaccine is safe(er) than the Covid disease. Eventually, the Corona vaccine will become manditory like the polio vaccine has been for years.
 
BTW, I believe my Covid disease was eliminated by my own immune system. Nobody can tell for sure unless they do a blood test to look for living corona viruses in my sample. My case of bronchitis which was caused by Covid is reacting very well to an antibiotic and prednisone.
 
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If the Corona viruses are mutating to less dangerous forms, that is most reassuring.

As far as disease v virus....I'd have to do about 40 minutes of Googling which I don't feel like doing right now but my impression is that a disease is ANYTHING. Arthritis is a disease. Polio is a disease. Any malady that can strike is a disease. I think the connotation of "disease" is that it generally doesn't go away with treatment and a significant number of people who get it become disabled or dead. Some diseases are caused by microbes. Other diseases are genetic. Diabetes is a disease. If you have no genetic predisposition you will probably never get it no matter how many risk factors are a part of your life. Covid is a disease but we don't call it that because few people die or are disabled from it. Leprosy is a disease and it's caused by a bacteria. Going back to polio, that is caused by a virus. So how was polio wiped out but we can't wipe out Covid? Probably because everyone pretty much had to get vaccinated against polio.

It will just take time for everyone to accept that the corona vaccine is safe(er) than the Covid disease. Eventually, the Corona vaccine will become manditory like the polio vaccine has been for years.
It’s always the case 1918 Spanish flu was truly deadly then each season it’s less severe
Same as Covid Delta strain more transmissible but less deadly
Why … it’s not good to kill all the hosts , so it gets weaker to be able to spread

It is true the higher you vaccinate the more it wants to survive hence more transmissible strains
 
You are a reasonably intelligent guy based on some of your posts so you must know that you are engaging in personification when you imply that a virus has a brain or can strategize how to concur humans. Each time a virus reproduces the reproduction is not perfect. Eventually, these imperfect copies give the new virus a leg-up and it proliferates (statistics, not a plotting virus). If we had all gotten the shot at the earliest possible opportunity (which was in the last year of the Trump administration), it is possible we would never have seen a Delta variant. People like yourself allowed the virus to get to a point where it can infect everyone, even people with vaccinations. With the virus reproducing in vaccinated people, the chances of a vaccine-resistant virus go up considerably. To work from the premise that where we are now with this mess was inevitable is false.
 
You are a reasonably intelligent guy based on some of your posts so you must know that you are engaging in personification when you imply that a virus has a brain or can strategize how to concur humans. Each time a virus reproduces the reproduction is not perfect. Eventually, these imperfect copies give the new virus a leg-up and it proliferates (statistics, not a plotting virus). If we had all gotten the shot at the earliest possible opportunity (which was in the last year of the Trump administration), it is possible we would never have seen a Delta variant. People like yourself allowed the virus to get to a point where it can infect everyone, even people with vaccinations. With the virus reproducing in vaccinated people, the chances of a vaccine-resistant virus go up considerably. To work from the premise that where we are now with this mess was inevitable is false.
thank you i think i am reasonably intelligent :)
viruses are amazing and have been around for millions of years they evolve to survive
and yes i took the AZ jab , i wish i hadn't

but definitely will not be taking the Pfixer mRNA potion

vaccine or no vaccine you would have never beaten this, it's like flu now endemic
especially one designed in the Wuhan lab

it's here to stay its plain hogwash to say if only....
 
My wife is a teacher, dozen years now.
Her and quite a few co-workers got vaccinated months ago, 2 doses.
Got sick both times, as did the rest of them.
She got sick again a few weeks later...aaand is sick again now, and took today off.
Me and our daughter...still fine.
Some people just can't understand this concept my man.
 
You are a reasonably intelligent guy based on some of your posts so you must know that you are engaging in personification when you imply that a virus has a brain or can strategize how to concur humans.
I didn’t take @mark3evo 's comment literally. Some viruses do seem to evolve to adapt to their environment and means of transmission so methodically, it almost seems there must have been some conscious thought involved on the part of the virus. Of course, this is not possible which makes it all the more amazing and terrifying. In the ending stages, a rabid animal will attack anything without fear and without feeling pain. The animal has abnormal strength, endurance and ferocity. All of this comes from the virus’s effect on the nervous system of the infected animal. A 15 lb raccoon will not stop attacking any other creature unless it’s dealt an immediately fatal blow. Anything less and it will relentlessly continue the attack. Although I know a virus can’t think, it amazes me that it somehow evolved to cause the kind of behavior that will ensure it’s transmission to a new host by the saliva that comes in contact with the new host’s blood stream. How did a virus “know” how to do that? ...and lets thank God all viruses are not as insidious as rabbis.

...so I guess I'm saying that if a virus evolves in such a way that it preserves enough hosts to ensure it's own survival, that does seem close enough to conscious choice making that the metaphore is almost automatic when describing the virus. Its like saying "it won't let me" when talking about computers. Of course the computer doesn't decide to not let you do anything but the end result is the same as if it had.
 
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