clutchless shifting?
- Thread starter vincent
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What we really need on these posts is bonified mechanics saying, "Yes, it wears this or breaks that" but I heave yet to see that. Some guys who's seen the parts and fixed them.
I clutchless half the time and do it both up AND down [shivver] and have done so on 3 differnt bikes totally 20k miles and haven't had problems. But, I know if I break something, I will have to pay to fix it. There's no reason for me to do it, it's just kinda fun.
And up is sometimes smoother and quicker than clutching. Down makes interesting sounds and occasional wobbling but that's part of the 'fun' mentioned 
I clutchless half the time and do it both up AND down [shivver] and have done so on 3 differnt bikes totally 20k miles and haven't had problems. But, I know if I break something, I will have to pay to fix it. There's no reason for me to do it, it's just kinda fun.
And up is sometimes smoother and quicker than clutching. Down makes interesting sounds and occasional wobbling but that's part of the 'fun' mentioned 
If Done correctly clutchless shifting is pretty harmless. I don't recommend downshifting without the clutch for the same reasons WWJD is having fun. 
But I do it sometimes.
No expert here but I have been doing it for years. You just need to make sure you are pre-loading the shift lever, and getting out of the throttle enough to really unload the gears. Done right it's fast as heck and super smooth.
But I do it sometimes.No expert here but I have been doing it for years. You just need to make sure you are pre-loading the shift lever, and getting out of the throttle enough to really unload the gears. Done right it's fast as heck and super smooth.
I have been clutchless shifting, both up and down, for a long time. In fact, I just had my clutch open not more than an hour ago to do the 2003 update. Plates and fibers looked practically new. The gears are obviously doing well, too.
Of course, you can expect a few people who have never touched the innards of their bike let alone actually shifted without the clutch, to come on here and post otherwise. Their 'expert' advice will be from that of a conversation with a bike salesman who doesn't even ride.
Of course, you can expect a few people who have never touched the innards of their bike let alone actually shifted without the clutch, to come on here and post otherwise. Their 'expert' advice will be from that of a conversation with a bike salesman who doesn't even ride.
Ok, can you guys give the technique you use to shift clutchless? Do you just blip off of teh throttle as you shift? Or, do you just keep the throttle steady and swap gears? I'd like to try it.
Pretty simple really. Once your rolling be sure to the bike is pulling just a bit and put some pressure on your shift lever (Preload) then just roll of the throttle a bit so you unload the tranny. When you get it unloaded your shift lever will SNICK right in the next gear. Pretty simple, and real fast.
So it's preload lever->roll off throttle... The thing should just snick right in. Some will not recomend doing it from first to second though. Something about the possibility of missing second and landing in neuteral.
To down shift, the opposite works, as you load your lever a bit while decelerating, just give the throttle a quick blip and it should snick right down. You will know when you get it right because it is super smooth and will allmost shift itself.
Your results may vary. Your tranny may bleed...
OH OH. and remember do not ever use a clutchless down shift in a corner, if you are moving to quick the compression braking could result in a...grounding experiance. The rear will lock a little and hop around sometimes. Which can be fun though rough on the equipment and nerves if you are not expecting it. Back torque limiting clutch or not.
going up i usuaslly dip the throttle for a split sec and back on. when you FEEL, it and it's timed right, it's as smooth as your best clutching. I do it and my rider doesn't even get pitched forward at all.
going down I roll off enough to shift it down, and rev back up a tad to match the RPM to the speed.
There's a lot of FEEL involved. I'd recommend rolling with a little foot pressure on the shifter, change throttle until you find where it 'lets' you change gears. that's how I learned it anyway.
Don't even THINK about doing the down shift until you perfect the upshift
"Snick" hehehe I like that word. Yep like Rev said the 1st to 2nd is the hardest one
going down I roll off enough to shift it down, and rev back up a tad to match the RPM to the speed.
There's a lot of FEEL involved. I'd recommend rolling with a little foot pressure on the shifter, change throttle until you find where it 'lets' you change gears. that's how I learned it anyway.
Don't even THINK about doing the down shift until you perfect the upshift
"Snick" hehehe I like that word. Yep like Rev said the 1st to 2nd is the hardest one
Cool. I'm about to go out for a ride. I'll give it a shot. Love learning something new. Can't help but learn on this site. Thanks folks.
I have been shifting up off and on for a while now and haven't really had any problems with it just heard a lot of advice against it. Haven't tried downshifting like that yet, it just don't sound right to me. Maybe someday, just not today.
Thanks for the input
Thanks for the input
Well, I'm hooked. My clutchless shifts today (with an extremely small number of exceptions while getting used to it) were so smooth compared to what I was doing with the clutch before. It sounds so cool when you shift clutchless and have the revs just right!
Thanks again. Don't know what I'd do without you folks. Owning my first sport bike wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable had it not been for this site. Gotta order them shirts soon to pay my thanks to the man that makes it all possible!
Thanks again. Don't know what I'd do without you folks. Owning my first sport bike wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable had it not been for this site. Gotta order them shirts soon to pay my thanks to the man that makes it all possible!
Deputy
Registered
Drag racers have been clutchless shifting cars since the 50's. They used to take out every other synchro to make it work even better. When done correctly, the dang stick shift works faster than an automatic. I'm wondering...do those air shifters use a clutch or do they just shift without it???
Dep
Dep
Yeah, I can... or could... been a while... shift a 5.0 Stang with just a tap of the pedal. Not enough to keep it running if I held the same position while it was sitting still, just a light tap on it. Won MANY street races against folks with Stangs that were faster than mine just because I could shift and they couldn't.
This was at full throttle without lifting though. It never occurred to me to use clutchless shifting at anything less than wide open throttle on a bike till I read about it here. I learn something new almost every day here. I thought I knew something about riding until I found this site.
Yeah, powershifting. That's what I was talking about. But, I tap the clutch a LOT lighter than most others that I've seen do it. Most I've seen actually stomp it to the floor and let it pop back out. I literally barely touch the pedal. I guess that isn't actually clutchless shifting is it? Guess I spoke out of turn, again. 
... then there's the: slap the clutch, leave the throttle where it is so you get more power hitting on the next gear. I've done that on accident a few times on the road and it is an amazingly hard launch forward doing that. even above 100... er, I meant 55
ok i didn't read the previous posts too well
ok i didn't read the previous posts too well
Yeah, I had already tried that on my busa but not at full throttle like in powershifting. I decided very quickly that I wouldn't be using that method on a regular basis. Not smooth at all and the busa revs WAY too quickly to hold the throttle that long at anything above about 1/4 throttle. It'd be hittin' redline without a load WAY too often for my tastes. 
clutchless shifter here...
only riding I do is on the 1/4 mile track. foot shifted, no clutch except to launch. smoothest shifting in the world. when 100% throttle, crack down to 80% and pick her up at the same time.
Much quicker than using clutch. smoother too. before she was a drag bike, did some two up riding. smoother without the clutch. gotta use the throttle to make it perfect, tho. good luck.!
only riding I do is on the 1/4 mile track. foot shifted, no clutch except to launch. smoothest shifting in the world. when 100% throttle, crack down to 80% and pick her up at the same time.
Much quicker than using clutch. smoother too. before she was a drag bike, did some two up riding. smoother without the clutch. gotta use the throttle to make it perfect, tho. good luck.!
I don't see whats so scary about it for everyone.... I've done it on all the dirt bikes I"ve owned and all the street bikes I"ve ridden...
I usually don't downshift with the clutch but upshifting is as easy and using the clutch...just back off the throttle...click up to the next gear and back on the gas and away you go.
I usually don't downshift with the clutch but upshifting is as easy and using the clutch...just back off the throttle...click up to the next gear and back on the gas and away you go.
vincent talk to curtis at the local suzuki shop on hwy 29
he has a sleeper 99 busa and he does it all the time while racing. he is pretty good at it from what i hear.
i always shifted my 10 speed simi truck both up and down without a clutch back when i drove them.
i just will not do it on my bike.
he has a sleeper 99 busa and he does it all the time while racing. he is pretty good at it from what i hear.
i always shifted my 10 speed simi truck both up and down without a clutch back when i drove them.
i just will not do it on my bike.
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