Bad to Down shift

[HeliBusa]

...Downshhifting to reduce speed is not good! Very dengerous... and very demanding on the engine!! I suggest you get over that habit... could end up in a rear wheel lock up and a bad crash.

...breaks are the best solution to shed speed!! ...In my personal experience, the busa is not too keen about high speed downshifts

Sorry Shenoyp,

On this topic, I completely disagree with you, and so does  every major safety or road racing organization in existance.

Engine braking is not dangerous at all.  Now, improperly executed engine braking on a high performance bike may be dangerous but so is any other improperly executed technique.

If you ask any racer on a road course whether they utilize engine braking, I will bet you that 99.999 will tell you they utilize it HEAVILY, especially at high speeds.

Your brakes will hold up NOT to heavy applications that would be needed on any sort of succesive turns.  Anyone who has experienced brake fade will attest to that.

The key, as others have stated, is matching the gear selected and engine speed consistant to the bikes speed.

This applies to the street as well as the track.

Several of the replies to this thread provide further proof for the need for ALL riders who move up to a high performance bike to take the appropriate training.  I apologize in advance to anyone who may be offended, BUT, the basic MSF course is only a good primer for what is needed to ride this type of bike SAFELY.....



<!--EDIT|HeliBusa
Reason for Edit: None given...|1115718954 -->

 

[Pop]

Engine breaking places no detrimental impact on the engine.  It provides added control as well.

MSF teaches you to practice engine breaking.  In fact, one of the obstacles in the course is designed so you have to engine break.

However it is also pointed out that you should never downshift in a turn as extreme downshifting can produce a momentary loss of traction.

Very accurate statement!

 

[ike]

I agree. Using your engine for braking WILL NOT hurt your engine unless you over speed it.(go way over red line).which is possible if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[Scribbler]

Where is everybody coming up with engine breaking hurting your engine, clutch, or anything else for that matter? This is entirely untrue. Too many people are under the impression that downshifting puts more work on your bike/car/whatever. What makes some of you think it's doing any more wear than accelerating your bike to the top of your powerband?

 

[Darden]

to each his own on this issue...I personally do it under normal riding conditions.
One thing the busa owners should realize that we all have a gift from suzuki...a back torque limiter (at least the 2005 models).   This is supposed to assist in preventing wheel lock-up.
What I take from from this is that suzuki as an engine designer knows method is used and understands it so it builds this feature into their product.

Given motorcyle's relative weight add with a single or pair of riders...these are the same internal components the withstand 200~250+ BHP under hard accelleration without being replaced.  Think of how many internals do not get replaced when turbos, NOS and bigbore kits go in.   I think their designed to take it.    

Truckers have and engine brake built in to the rig....when hauling a load, I think the load on THAT type of scenario is a little extreme...but lots of trucks have millions of miles on them.

Do any of the older models (2003, 2004) have the Back Torque Limiting Clutch?

I have an '04 LE, and if that's on my scooter, I sure haven't felt it. Not ever seen it listed in the specs.

 

[BigBSBusa]

Have done it in cars for years and do it on my bike, as well. Don't do it as often on the bike, but when properly used together it makes stopping almost as much as accelerating.

 

[pward76]

to each his own on this issue...I personally do it under normal riding conditions.
One thing the busa owners should realize that we all have a gift from suzuki...a back torque limiter (at least the 2005 models).   This is supposed to assist in preventing wheel lock-up.
What I take from from this is that suzuki as an engine designer knows method is used and understands it so it builds this feature into their product.

Given motorcyle's relative weight add with a single or pair of riders...these are the same internal components the withstand 200~250+ BHP under hard accelleration without being replaced.  Think of how many internals do not get replaced when turbos, NOS and bigbore kits go in.   I think their designed to take it.    

Truckers have and engine brake built in to the rig....when hauling a load, I think the load on THAT type of scenario is a little extreme...but lots of trucks have millions of miles on them.

Do any of the older models (2003, 2004) have the Back Torque Limiting Clutch?

I have an '04 LE, and if that's on my scooter, I sure haven't felt it.     Not ever seen it listed in the specs.

Yes, it's on the 04.

I have an 04 and I accidentally barked the back tire one day, caught two gears down instead of one and dumped the clutch. It was just a small bark, but I have to really be trying to do it now. (and no, I don't try to do it).

I have been practicing being smooth and blipping the throttle and downshifting - I try to shoot for no jerking when I let out the clutch. I have it right when it feels like an automatic transmission in a car... makes it nice for the passenger as well.

 

[busa_boy_69]

This may start a war, but here is MHO

Regular downshifting to brake is NOT good, main reason being wear and tear on the drivetrain, gears, shift forks, clutches and the like. Would much rather replace brake pads than have to tear into the engine to do clutch or gear work. You can hear the clicks as you downshift with the clutch pulled in so there is not any real danger of being in the wrong gear to take back off. As a matter of fact, I don't even use the front brake to stop on a regular stop, since there are double the pads on front to replace, usually use 100% rear brakes to do a non panic stop. Now, when riding the twistys or the track, downshifting is needed.

Dude I am not trying to fuel the war but I totally disagree with that. As long as you aren't a moron and know how to "properly" use the clutch it does not place any added stress on the engine. Now if you are going 100mph and decide to use 2nd gear and let the clutch fly out yes there would be some engine where there. If you are familiar with the engine and know the technique then it's as normal as twisting the throttle. And the whole you never using your front brake is a BAD habit. Thats where 70% of your stopping power comes from. If you don't regularly use it then there is gonna be a time when every split second counts and your reflexes getting to it are gonna be very slow. Just my .02

 

[#cruncherbusa]

OOOO, this is going to be a good one!

Personally, when I'm going from street light to street light, I engine brake and use my rear brakes at the same time. I feel that it will give me those extra two seconds that would be used up if I weren't using the clutch & had to downshift.

 

[pure_ego]

i believe all the hayabusa's have the back torque limiter.. i'm sure the 01's do at any rate...

it will lock up if you punish it.. but it does work at any normal speeds/rpms.

oh and STKR... haha been there.. done that.. did a major butt clinch because of it every time.

 

[HeliBusa]

This may start a war, but here is MHO

Regular downshifting to brake is NOT good, main reason being wear and tear on the drivetrain, gears, shift forks, clutches and the like. Would much rather replace brake pads than have to tear into the engine to do clutch or gear work. You can hear the clicks as you downshift with the clutch pulled in so there is not any real danger of being in the wrong gear to take back off. As a matter of fact, I don't even use the front brake to stop on a regular stop, since there are double the pads on front to replace, usually use 100% rear brakes to do a non panic stop. Now, when riding the twistys or the track, downshifting is needed.

Dude I am not trying to fuel the war but I totally disagree with that. As long as you aren't a moron and know how to "properly" use the clutch it does not place any added stress on the engine. Now if you are going 100mph and decide to use 2nd gear and let the clutch fly out yes there would be some engine where there. If you are familiar with the engine and know the technique then it's as normal as twisting the throttle. And the whole you never using your front brake is a BAD habit. Thats where 70% of your stopping power comes from. If you don't regularly use it then there is gonna be a time when every split second counts and your reflexes getting to it are gonna be very slow. Just my .02

I agree with Busa-Boy on this.......


If you make it a habit to NOT use your front brake, the outcome of what will happen to you, should an incident arise where you need to go into maximum braking, is VERY predictable, and it is NOT good.........

That is the number one cause of bikes that "unintentionally" get laid down after someone pulls out in front of them...

There is a saying that is followed by high speed drivers, pilots, cops, and Special Forces troops. “Whatever you train for and practice at low speed, is what you will unconsciously do in a crisis!â€￾ This has been proven many times.



<!--EDIT|HeliBusa
Reason for Edit: "WURDS DUN SPELLLD WRUNG!!"|1115730880 -->

 

[Lucky34]

I downshift if I'm cruising in 6th, and need to come to a stop....
For example, if I'm at like 2-3k rpms in 6th, downshifting to 5th isnt gonna break anything.... but if you are at like 8,000 rpms in 6th and you downshift to 3rd... THEN you have a HELL of a mess

 

[rubbersidedown]

hilarious thread.

Of course its fine to down shift for slowing any vehicle.

Try slowing a big rig/large truck/etc without gearing down.

Sometimes I'm blown away by different views.

Sometimes, somebody has to be wrong.

Take a drivers course,truck course,MSF course,race school,racecar school,etc etc etc....ALL OF THEM will tell you its how you ride/drive safer,faster,more efficiently.

Its a Hayabusa... not yer Grannies Chevette.

Ego is also correct,because of the compression and big bore of the Busa,the clutch gives a little in order to prevent rear wheel lockup. A good feature, especially in the rain.


the ONLY thing I cant think of thats slightly bad about gearing down is, it can cause yer motor to consume a pinch more oil. I think it creates a little more vaccum and as the motor becomes a bit fuel starved in will suck a bit of oil thru the airbox, or up past the rings. No harm done thou.

Class is out. RSD.

 

[imoXu]

Sometimes I come across a thread that highlights the facts that some of us dont have a clue about riding.

This is one of them

lol at back brake only users, wtf ??

moX

 

[BA BUSA]

If you do it the right way it doesn't hurt the motor any more than when you accelerate....if your affraid of wearing out your motor then don't bother to ride it. The Busa is a high performance machine, ride it how it was designed to be riden.

 

[rubbersidedown]

dont have a clue about riding.



lol at back brake only users, wtf ??

moX

awe fug... I missed that bozo. Sum 1 uses back brake only?

this is gonna get good.

Its Rubbah Time,

Gonna roast me some stoopid fugs...

 

[ALLshow.NOgo]

Downshifting I believe does NO HARM to the engine if you do it correct. I use it pretty much all the time when comming to a stop, either that or nuetral. But I always downshift to go faster quick :-D

 

[si-lo]

I downshift when slowing. On my busa, in my yota 5 speed, anything with a manual tranny, hell I think my wife's truck even downshifts when slowing, and it's an automatic, but it is matching the gear to the speed so you will have power there if you need it. Why not downshift?
It's called riding/driving.

 

[erik]

Gotta jump in here, let me get this straight...the few guys saying downshifting is a bad idea...you mean to say that whenever you slow from highway speed to a stop you pull in the clutch and just clunk through the gears to neutral then use your brakes to stop? wow, that is really clueless.

 

[si-lo]

Oh yeah, did any of you that don't downshift race a Viper lately?

That would explain alot.