Bad to Down shift
- Thread starter outlawed
- Start date
...Downshhifting to reduce speed is not good! Very dengerous... and very demanding on the engine!! I suggest you get over that habit... could end up in a rear wheel lock up and a bad crash.
...breaks are the best solution to shed speed!! ...In my personal experience, the busa is not too keen about high speed downshifts
...breaks are the best solution to shed speed!! ...In my personal experience, the busa is not too keen about high speed downshifts
Its called engine braking and its not bad on the engine at all. The biggest danger is if you miscalculate the speeds and your back wheel locks up which could result in loss of control, other then that its fine. I slow down the bike with the engine when I am coming off the freeway and when coming to a casual stop in general. High speed stops are all brakes.
One reason for downshifting is to be in the right gear for any given road speed. Don't downshift without easing it in with the clutch however, or you will risk a rear-wheel lockup (unless you're riding a two-stroke, which have much less engine braking than four-strokes.)
If you don't downshift when coming to a stop and suddenly need to be able to accelerate again, there will be a delay while you shift through the gears to find the right one, or a risk of stalling/jerking because you apply insufficient throttle and/or don't slip the clutch enough for the gear you are in.
I've also find downshifting to be useful for cars and bikes in slippery conditions because - when combined with correct use of the clutch and brakes - it's a better way to smoothly modulate power to the driven wheels than using brakes only i.e. there's less chance of a wheel locking.
Furthermore, engine braking/down shifting on long declines helps to reduce heat buildup in your brakes, which can result in brake fade and even failure.
If you don't downshift when coming to a stop and suddenly need to be able to accelerate again, there will be a delay while you shift through the gears to find the right one, or a risk of stalling/jerking because you apply insufficient throttle and/or don't slip the clutch enough for the gear you are in.
I've also find downshifting to be useful for cars and bikes in slippery conditions because - when combined with correct use of the clutch and brakes - it's a better way to smoothly modulate power to the driven wheels than using brakes only i.e. there's less chance of a wheel locking.
Furthermore, engine braking/down shifting on long declines helps to reduce heat buildup in your brakes, which can result in brake fade and even failure.
boosz
Registered
Why do we downshift??!!!??!!!
Here's a couple of my thoughts on this. We downshift to AID in slowing a vehicle down, be it a bike, car, truck. If all you use to slow a vehicle is the brakes and forget about the downshifting part you will tend to OVERHEAT the brakes, resulting in excessive wear and premautely having to replace them, as well as running the possibility of GLAZING the pads and subsequently having REDUCED braking effectiveness the next time you try to slow down. Gearing down while braking will enable you , if need be, to rapidly accelerate out of the way of the idiot in the cage who doesn't see you and pulls over into your lane or across the intersection in front of you
If you are slowing down only using your brakes and not gearing down you will be in too high of a gear to react effectively if this happens.. not good for YOU!
Engine breaking places no detrimental impact on the engine. It provides added control as well.
MSF teaches you to practice engine breaking. In fact, one of the obstacles in the course is designed so you have to engine break.
However it is also pointed out that you should never downshift in a turn as extreme downshifting can produce a momentary loss of traction.
<!--EDIT|Scribbler
Reason for Edit: None given...|1115709893 -->
MSF teaches you to practice engine breaking. In fact, one of the obstacles in the course is designed so you have to engine break.
However it is also pointed out that you should never downshift in a turn as extreme downshifting can produce a momentary loss of traction.
<!--EDIT|Scribbler
Reason for Edit: None given...|1115709893 -->
Dr Geekenstein
Registered
This may start a war, but here is MHO
Regular downshifting to brake is NOT good, main reason being wear and tear on the drivetrain, gears, shift forks, clutches and the like. Would much rather replace brake pads than have to tear into the engine to do clutch or gear work. You can hear the clicks as you downshift with the clutch pulled in so there is not any real danger of being in the wrong gear to take back off. As a matter of fact, I don't even use the front brake to stop on a regular stop, since there are double the pads on front to replace, usually use 100% rear brakes to do a non panic stop. Now, when riding the twistys or the track, downshifting is needed.
Regular downshifting to brake is NOT good, main reason being wear and tear on the drivetrain, gears, shift forks, clutches and the like. Would much rather replace brake pads than have to tear into the engine to do clutch or gear work. You can hear the clicks as you downshift with the clutch pulled in so there is not any real danger of being in the wrong gear to take back off. As a matter of fact, I don't even use the front brake to stop on a regular stop, since there are double the pads on front to replace, usually use 100% rear brakes to do a non panic stop. Now, when riding the twistys or the track, downshifting is needed.
I avoid it whenever possible. Like when I know that I will be coming to a complete stop. But I have combine downshifting and braking more often for greater speed and throttle control when I'm splitting lanes in traffic, or the need for a real sudden slow-down or stop.
This goes for bikes and cars too: Downshifting as a regular habit to just slow down or stop unecessarily IS a bad habit. You maybe saving your brakes, but at the expense of the clutch plates (friction plates on cars at least) and engine (piston rings to be specific). Once knew a Porche trained/certified mechanic that agrees with this and commented, "...What do people think the brakes are for? It's a lot cheaper to change the brakes then it is to do the clutch and rebuild the engine because of leaky rings... From engine braking".
This goes for bikes and cars too: Downshifting as a regular habit to just slow down or stop unecessarily IS a bad habit. You maybe saving your brakes, but at the expense of the clutch plates (friction plates on cars at least) and engine (piston rings to be specific). Once knew a Porche trained/certified mechanic that agrees with this and commented, "...What do people think the brakes are for? It's a lot cheaper to change the brakes then it is to do the clutch and rebuild the engine because of leaky rings... From engine braking".
well Im glad all you chimed in and gave me your opions and decided that its only good for me to when on the hill befor my house the rest its just got to be brake. But would like to here more opions on the matter if there are any out there that havent already.
doesn't the 'busa have the torque back limiting clutch? I know it's not a miracle worker.. but it's actually designed to minimize rear wheel lock up on early downshifts..
it works.. to a point..
for the record.. I downshift everytime I'm braking.. whether and won't cease doing it.. if it tears stuff up .. oh well. You guys that are only doing it when it's needed are kinda crazy.. If your used to doing it.. your used to doing it.. if your not used to doing it.. how do ya think your gonna do it right when you really need it.
at the track I actually had it pretty much figured out when/where I could downshift and not lock the rear up... that would be with the RPMS at 7-8000 rpms in say 4th.. downshift to 3rd and the rpms would need to be around 9500-10,500.. biggest thing to remember was to match the rpms and slip the clutch just a tad instead of just dumping it back out. If you dumped it.. it would lock.. if you matched the rpms it provided a great amount of "whooooa!" to the brakes.
easy peesy lemon squeezy.
it works.. to a point..
for the record.. I downshift everytime I'm braking.. whether and won't cease doing it.. if it tears stuff up .. oh well. You guys that are only doing it when it's needed are kinda crazy.. If your used to doing it.. your used to doing it.. if your not used to doing it.. how do ya think your gonna do it right when you really need it.
at the track I actually had it pretty much figured out when/where I could downshift and not lock the rear up... that would be with the RPMS at 7-8000 rpms in say 4th.. downshift to 3rd and the rpms would need to be around 9500-10,500.. biggest thing to remember was to match the rpms and slip the clutch just a tad instead of just dumping it back out. If you dumped it.. it would lock.. if you matched the rpms it provided a great amount of "whooooa!" to the brakes.
easy peesy lemon squeezy.
boosz
Registered
Downshifting from 6th to 1st is NOT the way to ride.... lol
I don't think this was the implied way in the question. Downshift WHILE braking .. the more you slow down the lower gear you go... one gear at a time!! Skip one or two in there and you can almost guarantee that rear is gonna lock up or you'll be hittin' the rev limiter, maybe even both.. Not good either way!
I don't think this was the implied way in the question. Downshift WHILE braking .. the more you slow down the lower gear you go... one gear at a time!! Skip one or two in there and you can almost guarantee that rear is gonna lock up or you'll be hittin' the rev limiter, maybe even both.. Not good either way!
Same as Ego said
I've used the gears for engine braking on every bike I've owned for the last 25 years.
Getting used to it on the track is a little different, but sometimes it's fun when you're on the front brake hard and the back end is sliding back/forth as you downshift.
Getting used to it on the track is a little different, but sometimes it's fun when you're on the front brake hard and the back end is sliding back/forth as you downshift.
I downshift all the time, blip the throttle, clutch, drop a gear and slow on down. I apply brakes at the same time, but in case I need the power I am in the right gear. When coming to a complete stop I downshift to second and coast in, at around 20 ft to go I put her into neutral and apply more brake. I leave her in neutral till I am ready to move out. Just my way of doing things.....
to each his own on this issue...I personally do it under normal riding conditions.
One thing the busa owners should realize that we all have a gift from suzuki...a back torque limiter (at least the 2005 models). This is supposed to assist in preventing wheel lock-up.
What I take from from this is that suzuki as an engine designer knows method is used and understands it so it builds this feature into their product.
Given motorcyle's relative weight add with a single or pair of riders...these are the same internal components the withstand 200~250+ BHP under hard accelleration without being replaced. Think of how many internals do not get replaced when turbos, NOS and bigbore kits go in. I think their designed to take it.
Truckers have and engine brake built in to the rig....when hauling a load, I think the load on THAT type of scenario is a little extreme...but lots of trucks have millions of miles on them.
One thing the busa owners should realize that we all have a gift from suzuki...a back torque limiter (at least the 2005 models). This is supposed to assist in preventing wheel lock-up.
What I take from from this is that suzuki as an engine designer knows method is used and understands it so it builds this feature into their product.
Given motorcyle's relative weight add with a single or pair of riders...these are the same internal components the withstand 200~250+ BHP under hard accelleration without being replaced. Think of how many internals do not get replaced when turbos, NOS and bigbore kits go in. I think their designed to take it.
Truckers have and engine brake built in to the rig....when hauling a load, I think the load on THAT type of scenario is a little extreme...but lots of trucks have millions of miles on them.
Downshifting is very important!!, when it is done correctly, also helps your bike slow down it also provides maximum power when needed.. If you bark the back wheel every time you down shift, your not getting it!!!. Its feel, and knowing your bike. Read MR.GXR Post !. that’s the way….
Similar threads
