Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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mark3evo
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the Ukrainian ministry were giving instructions in how to make 'molotov' cocktails
The sign of desperation...
I think Putin (in his psychotic mind) was kind of hoping the Ukrainian people would either give up or band behind him as a liberator...
Taking and holding ground are two entirely different animals...IF Russia manages to take the large urban cities (and I say IF), they have to deploy a sizeable occupation force which by all accounts will come under insurgency attacks on a continual basis.
This seems like a no-win situation to me.
Russia now has the west on their backs along with the very nation they are attempting to conquer.
Taking and holding ground are two entirely different animals...IF Russia manages to take the large urban cities (and I say IF), they have to deploy a sizeable occupation force which by all accounts will come under insurgency attacks on a continual basis.
This seems like a no-win situation to me.
Russia now has the west on their backs along with the very nation they are attempting to conquer.
JeffSyh
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I hope Ukraine fights tooth and nail, this would actually bankrupt Russia again if they did and dragged it out as long as possible (though the loss of life will be tremendous) Ukraine will sink Russia financially. I would gladly fight for Ukraine and I think nato needs to stand up and go toe to toe with Russia no matter what the cost is.
What happened when Russia try’s the same with Lithuania? Is nato going to give Putin harsh words or stand up and fight? Putin excuse was to demilitarize and stop neo-nazi (though the president of Ukraine is half Jewish). As much as I know the devastation would cause nato needs to show Russia and China they are not scared to fight.
What happened when Russia try’s the same with Lithuania? Is nato going to give Putin harsh words or stand up and fight? Putin excuse was to demilitarize and stop neo-nazi (though the president of Ukraine is half Jewish). As much as I know the devastation would cause nato needs to show Russia and China they are not scared to fight.
The political consequences of losing an American city to a Russian Nuke are huge. I would not mind dying in a fight if need be but I do worry about handing the US back to an authoritarian WS and daming the future of my family for generations. While I agree only direct force will stop Putin, it's got to happen through the UN. I do hope the Ukrainians can hold the Russians long enough for sanctions to start to have an impact.
What you are suggesting would lead to a global conflict which would lead to the use of nuclear devices..as soon as a nuclear capable country gets backed into a corner and is on the verge of defeat, the button would be pushed.
Putin has been drooling to get into Ukraine for many years and any and all excuses would do.
Much like the US going into Iraq the first time claiming WMD were present...yet there were none found.
mark3evo
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I may need to modify my response , following latest NATO response tonight
“Sink” Russia financially? What about Ukraine’s finances? Russia certainly has more $$ to throw at this war than Ukraine doesn’t it?
JeffSyh
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I’m not saying invade Russia I’m saying send troops and let’s show Russia who really have teeth. Nato would push Russia out easily and I doubt Putin would use nukes over Ukraine.
I bet China is just so excited seeing how easy it is to invade a country and let nato just say harsh words... the door will not be shut with just Ukraine this is going to be a chain reaction and if it leads to nuclear warfare then it leads to nuclear warfare and that’s strictly on Russians hands.
JeffSyh
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Ukraine is already poor, they will of course be more financially sunk but they have more allies to help them recover. It would be like when Russia invaded Afghanistan and financially put a nail in the coffin for the Soviet Union. Lots of countries are already sending funds to Ukraine and have been for years. Who does Russia have? China?
Well, yes. China was involved in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Korea.
mark3evo
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Map shows 800kT bomb dropped on London, only need maybe 8 of these to render UK a smouldering wasteland.
Inner circle instant evaporation, outer circles firestorms. Blast zone and flash burns beyond the outer circle.
Scale: Inner circle is 30 miles across
A show of force won't deter Russia in it's current operation as they know NATO won't attack them. The most NATO can do is form the other side of the iron curtain just like it did after WW2.
Finances rule the world now, these sanctions are more than just harsh words.
As for it reverting to a nuclear solution....on Russian hands yes but nobody wins in a nuclear solution.
I wouldn't bet my last penny on Putin not resorting to nukes....he has many different yields with various launch platforms at his disposal. He also has hypersonic delivery systems of which there is no current defense.
There are much bigger yields out there....
And don't forget the radioactive fallout which has a much larger coverage depending on prevailing winds.
Putin's not going back, this is a relative soft war his strategy is to not to kill many Ukrainians but just to take the country intact, i actually think this is a good strategy. he offered the ukraine a chance to lay down their arms, this is not new its been done for thousands of years the romans did it and were successful in taking countries not taking lives, The problem for the west is Russia knows the UN has no teeth and Russia has a powerful allies in China so get used to it this is just the beginning of the US/Nato demise. the real casualties of war aren't the ones in power, its the solders who do the dirty work, their families who suffer the cost of paying the debt for the war,
Iraq cost the US citizens over $6000 per person and hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed a country. the people responsible for the war don't suffer its the citizens, War Campaigns are simple, powers tell the people to eat up all the propaganda feed lies, lies become truths etc, the propaganda machine takes over hating people who stand up against the powers objectors are ridiculed or worse, Sanctions against in Russia now is going to affect 80% of the country but not the 20% who can afford it. Putin's not caring about his people get that straight he a megalomaniac
Iraq cost the US citizens over $6000 per person and hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed a country. the people responsible for the war don't suffer its the citizens, War Campaigns are simple, powers tell the people to eat up all the propaganda feed lies, lies become truths etc, the propaganda machine takes over hating people who stand up against the powers objectors are ridiculed or worse, Sanctions against in Russia now is going to affect 80% of the country but not the 20% who can afford it. Putin's not caring about his people get that straight he a megalomaniac
Sadly, innocents are always killed as collateral damage when soldiers are fighting soldiers but I wonder how the Russian soldiers feel about intentionally killing innocents with their air strikes and ground assaults on civilians who aren’t enemy combatants? Not since Hitler’s invasion before and during WW2 has the world seen such brazen and unwarranted attacks on innocents. Putin should be taken out now just like Hitler should’ve been early on.
His strategy and reality are two entirely different things...
Point 1-Russia invaded a sovereign country
Point 2-every invasion force offers the defending nation to lay down their arms
Point 3-the Romans were conquerors who in turn were conquered, they enslaved the people they conquered and killed off their leaders. The Romans were known for killing off everyone who did not succumb to slavery. The Socialist party of Germany during WW2 modelled themselves after the Romans (not a great example of what to do there).
Point 4-This particular invasion of Ukraine will not yield any victors, even if Russia is successful in assassinating the Ukrainian government and taking power, Ukraine as a country will no longer exist.
Point 5-the UN/NATO indeed have teeth, this is what has stopped the Russian advance over the years, it has also kept many other regimes in check.
Putin has had a plan to take Ukraine pretty much ever since his puppet government was ousted. Now he has put this plan in action regardless of the consequences.....
The Ukrainian leader on the other hand is a brave man who is an example to withhold...
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You don't think Putin's strategy is perfect?
Putin's threatened the west UN NATO to stay out of it. and the west are shitting themselves to counter with any kind of show of force, show me ONE leader who's standing up to Putin offering a real tangible threat?
And the reality is Putin said "try and stop me with force" I WILL UNLEASH ONTO YOU LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER IMAGINE
that means China and Russia combined in a cyber assault that will stop the US and Europe in its tracks JUST FOR STARTERS
Putin's threatened the west UN NATO to stay out of it. and the west are shitting themselves to counter with any kind of show of force, show me ONE leader who's standing up to Putin offering a real tangible threat?
And the reality is Putin said "try and stop me with force" I WILL UNLEASH ONTO YOU LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER IMAGINE
that means China and Russia combined in a cyber assault that will stop the US and Europe in its tracks JUST FOR STARTERS
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