ZX-12R edging busas out yet?
- Thread starter WWJD
- Start date
where have YOU been? did you not read my post??!!
Sounds alot like... "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl that saw Ferris pass out at 31 flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."
I would ride the wheels off that thing if someone gave it to me, but I wouldn't get ride of Bessie for any other bike. Stablemate baby, stablemate!
busabrother
Registered
Well having owned both i must say that the Busa has more low end torque and the 12 has more hps stock. Once you start tinkering around, thenits based on the tuner and the rider. But i really must admit the Busa was more physically comfortable, but the 12 is nimbler. But If i could have I would have kept the busa too.
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busabrother
Registered
nother
Hey Bro ... how have you been? We've got a ride coming up this Oct, hope you can make it!
Oh my gawd !! ..is " Ferris" ..allright ?
Matt Sterbator
Registered
Yep, stock for stock, depends soley on the rider.
As far as drag racing is concerned, it's alot harder to go fast on the 12 because it makes it's power up high. So you have to rev and slip slip slip the clutch. If you bog it even a little bit, you kill you run. The Busa makes so much torque down low that even bogging, it'll pull it out and still haul the mail.
Top speed... I've never been concerned with a couple mph difference at 180+mph. Not my type of racing anyway. Most people who talk about it are the ones quoting magazines, spec sheets and speedometer readings, lol.
The bikes are so close, it all comes down to the rider.
Everyone brings up interesting points. My buddy bought an '05 Busa and I got an new '04 ZX12.
Many differences boil down to personal preference, regarding ergos, feel and where the motor pulls.
Both are great bikes and I fully agree that it's rider vs. rider in most contests, not bike vs. bike.
We drag them, roll them on and canyon ride them. The Busa has about 10ft/lbs more tq, the 12 about 10 hp. How you ride it, and where you choose to punch off (rpms) makes or breaks roll-ons.
From a stop, the Busa jumps out and then the 12 starts running up on it as the speeds increase. We have yet to hit the limiters on either bike.
But, from a second gear (mid-range) roll up to about 170 they were damn near side by side. If I let the Busa punch off at low speed and I'm up a gear, he squirts off. But if I know it's coming, I run a gear lower and can pull him. So knowing each bikes strengths and weaknesses is critical in contests between the two.
I'm taller than he is, so I like the 12. It's a taller bike and has more leg room for me. In addition, I can't see the top 1/2 of the dash on the Busa due to the windscreen.
Tranny feel is also personal preference. The 12 is much more "buttery smooth" , the Busa has the nice mechanical notchy feel that lets you know it's solidly in gear.
The Busa's motor pulls down low, the 12 up high, as said before. Coming off a ZX9, it's power band suits me fine and I don't mind rowing the box a little bit to get every bit out of it. Though many like the torque of the 1300cc motor and the way it freight trains without a downshift. The 12 makes you work a little more in that regard.
The Busa's hydraulic clutch is not as good as the 12's cable actuated unit. I have never had a bike with a more linear, smooth and predictable engagement point. Though, it does have a heavy pull at the lever. Again, depends on what you want to do with it.
I have the latest version of the 12 with radial brakes. (The bike pictured at the top of this thread is an '02-'03, as it still has the six-piston Tokicos).
I think the Busa has better brake feel stock vs stock. My major complaint with the bike has been that it has a spongy front brake and "weak" back brake. I've bled the brakes and I believe the problem is an excessively soft pair of brake front brake lines. Once they are clamped and the excessive travel taken up they are strong and have a good feel. The Busa's brakes are firm, strong and hit right now! Like my last bike's. But, my friend also has prematurely locked his rear brake, so perhaps the softer rear brake on the 12 is a good thing? I'm not sold that the new radial brakes are an improvement... we will see when new lines go on.
The 12's motor seems smoother. Cosmetics preferences are personal. The Busa stock feels much more nimble in the handling department because the goofs at Kawi put the monster Huge 200mm Dunlop on the rear. It felt very heavy and didn't like to transition. I have since put on an 190 and it feels like a totally different bike. Feels like it lost 50 lbs and falls into turns and is much more resistant to standing up and running wide out the exit of an apex.
I like all the Busa's bells and whistles on the dash. I'm a sucker for all the gimmicky stuff like the fuel consumption read outs, and I think the crisp blue and green dash indicators are more classy looking than the Kawi's. Same goes for the nice paint on the inner fairing pieces.
We have yet to go on a real long ride together. We keep buzzing around and hitting the strip every week before we can go through a full tank cycle to check mpg. Both seem like they'll hit between 37-40 if we are ever nice to them.
Speaking of tanks, I like the Busa's "real" tank and it's paint. The 12 has the "fake" tank. It's plastic and they apparently use a different paint on it, as it is soft and easy to scratch and buff with you're legs and a tank bag.
Uhhhh, I think that was it. Sorry for the run-on. But thought you would like to hear the straight scoop from someone who actually owns, commutes and races on the latest version.
Bottom line, each bike has it's idividual pro's and con's. Each bike is an outstanding machine and probably exceeds the capablities of it's owners 90% of the time. Get one and then start working down the list modding away what ever you don't like.
One this is absolutely clear. The reputation earned by the Busa early-on has snowballed to God-Like status. Any school girl can tell you what a Hayabusa is! No one even seems to notice the 12R, or know anything about it.
Example; My Kawi Concours riding neighbor strolls over to look at my new bike. He looks at it briefly and says "You wanted a fast bike, you shoulda got a Hayabusa". I didn't even waste my breath explaining that they are virtually identical in performance... nothing will change the minds of those who have read otherwise, despite me just getting back from canyon riding and racing both all afternoon.
On the up-side, my Silver bike is kind of bland looking, and has not received any kind of un-wanted attention either. I pull up, people look at me like an older guy with a tank bag, and they are soon shocked when they see my tail light growing smaller on the horizon.
Oh, and my bike seems to put much more weight on the riders wrists, where his puts more weight on you're butt. But he has bar risers and I guess they will be added to my list of "must-have" goodies as well.
I now must appologize for the double run-on.
Shoot me specific questions I'll give feedback or test it out against his bike.
Many differences boil down to personal preference, regarding ergos, feel and where the motor pulls.
Both are great bikes and I fully agree that it's rider vs. rider in most contests, not bike vs. bike.
We drag them, roll them on and canyon ride them. The Busa has about 10ft/lbs more tq, the 12 about 10 hp. How you ride it, and where you choose to punch off (rpms) makes or breaks roll-ons.
From a stop, the Busa jumps out and then the 12 starts running up on it as the speeds increase. We have yet to hit the limiters on either bike.
But, from a second gear (mid-range) roll up to about 170 they were damn near side by side. If I let the Busa punch off at low speed and I'm up a gear, he squirts off. But if I know it's coming, I run a gear lower and can pull him. So knowing each bikes strengths and weaknesses is critical in contests between the two.
I'm taller than he is, so I like the 12. It's a taller bike and has more leg room for me. In addition, I can't see the top 1/2 of the dash on the Busa due to the windscreen.
Tranny feel is also personal preference. The 12 is much more "buttery smooth" , the Busa has the nice mechanical notchy feel that lets you know it's solidly in gear.
The Busa's motor pulls down low, the 12 up high, as said before. Coming off a ZX9, it's power band suits me fine and I don't mind rowing the box a little bit to get every bit out of it. Though many like the torque of the 1300cc motor and the way it freight trains without a downshift. The 12 makes you work a little more in that regard.
The Busa's hydraulic clutch is not as good as the 12's cable actuated unit. I have never had a bike with a more linear, smooth and predictable engagement point. Though, it does have a heavy pull at the lever. Again, depends on what you want to do with it.
I have the latest version of the 12 with radial brakes. (The bike pictured at the top of this thread is an '02-'03, as it still has the six-piston Tokicos).
I think the Busa has better brake feel stock vs stock. My major complaint with the bike has been that it has a spongy front brake and "weak" back brake. I've bled the brakes and I believe the problem is an excessively soft pair of brake front brake lines. Once they are clamped and the excessive travel taken up they are strong and have a good feel. The Busa's brakes are firm, strong and hit right now! Like my last bike's. But, my friend also has prematurely locked his rear brake, so perhaps the softer rear brake on the 12 is a good thing? I'm not sold that the new radial brakes are an improvement... we will see when new lines go on.
The 12's motor seems smoother. Cosmetics preferences are personal. The Busa stock feels much more nimble in the handling department because the goofs at Kawi put the monster Huge 200mm Dunlop on the rear. It felt very heavy and didn't like to transition. I have since put on an 190 and it feels like a totally different bike. Feels like it lost 50 lbs and falls into turns and is much more resistant to standing up and running wide out the exit of an apex.
I like all the Busa's bells and whistles on the dash. I'm a sucker for all the gimmicky stuff like the fuel consumption read outs, and I think the crisp blue and green dash indicators are more classy looking than the Kawi's. Same goes for the nice paint on the inner fairing pieces.
We have yet to go on a real long ride together. We keep buzzing around and hitting the strip every week before we can go through a full tank cycle to check mpg. Both seem like they'll hit between 37-40 if we are ever nice to them.
Speaking of tanks, I like the Busa's "real" tank and it's paint. The 12 has the "fake" tank. It's plastic and they apparently use a different paint on it, as it is soft and easy to scratch and buff with you're legs and a tank bag.
Uhhhh, I think that was it. Sorry for the run-on. But thought you would like to hear the straight scoop from someone who actually owns, commutes and races on the latest version.
Bottom line, each bike has it's idividual pro's and con's. Each bike is an outstanding machine and probably exceeds the capablities of it's owners 90% of the time. Get one and then start working down the list modding away what ever you don't like.
One this is absolutely clear. The reputation earned by the Busa early-on has snowballed to God-Like status. Any school girl can tell you what a Hayabusa is! No one even seems to notice the 12R, or know anything about it.
Example; My Kawi Concours riding neighbor strolls over to look at my new bike. He looks at it briefly and says "You wanted a fast bike, you shoulda got a Hayabusa". I didn't even waste my breath explaining that they are virtually identical in performance... nothing will change the minds of those who have read otherwise, despite me just getting back from canyon riding and racing both all afternoon.
On the up-side, my Silver bike is kind of bland looking, and has not received any kind of un-wanted attention either. I pull up, people look at me like an older guy with a tank bag, and they are soon shocked when they see my tail light growing smaller on the horizon.
Oh, and my bike seems to put much more weight on the riders wrists, where his puts more weight on you're butt. But he has bar risers and I guess they will be added to my list of "must-have" goodies as well.
I now must appologize for the double run-on.
Shoot me specific questions I'll give feedback or test it out against his bike.
Thats some good detailed review mate....Everyone brings up interesting points. My buddy bought an '05 Busa and I got an new '04 ZX12.
Many differences boil down to personal preference, regarding ergos, feel and where the motor pulls.
Both are great bikes and I fully agree that it's rider vs. rider in most contests, not bike vs. bike.
We drag them, roll them on and canyon ride them. The Busa has about 10ft/lbs more tq, the 12 about 10 hp. How you ride it, and where you choose to punch off (rpms) makes or breaks roll-ons.
From a stop, the Busa jumps out and then the 12 starts running up on it as the speeds increase. We have yet to hit the limiters on either bike.
But, from a second gear (mid-range) roll up to about 170 they were damn near side by side. If I let the Busa punch off at low speed and I'm up a gear, he squirts off. But if I know it's coming, I run a gear lower and can pull him. So knowing each bikes strengths and weaknesses is critical in contests between the two.
I'm taller than he is, so I like the 12. It's a taller bike and has more leg room for me. In addition, I can't see the top 1/2 of the dash on the Busa due to the windscreen.
Tranny feel is also personal preference. The 12 is much more "buttery smooth" , the Busa has the nice mechanical notchy feel that lets you know it's solidly in gear.
The Busa's motor pulls down low, the 12 up high, as said before. Coming off a ZX9, it's power band suits me fine and I don't mind rowing the box a little bit to get every bit out of it. Though many like the torque of the 1300cc motor and the way it freight trains without a downshift. The 12 makes you work a little more in that regard.
The Busa's hydraulic clutch is not as good as the 12's cable actuated unit. I have never had a bike with a more linear, smooth and predictable engagement point. Though, it does have a heavy pull at the lever. Again, depends on what you want to do with it.
I have the latest version of the 12 with radial brakes. (The bike pictured at the top of this thread is an '02-'03, as it still has the six-piston Tokicos).
I think the Busa has better brake feel stock vs stock. My major complaint with the bike has been that it has a spongy front brake and "weak" back brake. I've bled the brakes and I believe the problem is an excessively soft pair of brake front brake lines. Once they are clamped and the excessive travel taken up they are strong and have a good feel. The Busa's brakes are firm, strong and hit right now! Like my last bike's. But, my friend also has prematurely locked his rear brake, so perhaps the softer rear brake on the 12 is a good thing? I'm not sold that the new radial brakes are an improvement... we will see when new lines go on.
The 12's motor seems smoother. Cosmetics preferences are personal. The Busa stock feels much more nimble in the handling department because the goofs at Kawi put the monster Huge 200mm Dunlop on the rear. It felt very heavy and didn't like to transition. I have since put on an 190 and it feels like a totally different bike. Feels like it lost 50 lbs and falls into turns and is much more resistant to standing up and running wide out the exit of an apex.
I like all the Busa's bells and whistles on the dash. I'm a sucker for all the gimmicky stuff like the fuel consumption read outs, and I think the crisp blue and green dash indicators are more classy looking than the Kawi's. Same goes for the nice paint on the inner fairing pieces.
We have yet to go on a real long ride together. We keep buzzing around and hitting the strip every week before we can go through a full tank cycle to check mpg. Both seem like they'll hit between 37-40 if we are ever nice to them.
Speaking of tanks, I like the Busa's "real" tank and it's paint. The 12 has the "fake" tank. It's plastic and they apparently use a different paint on it, as it is soft and easy to scratch and buff with you're legs and a tank bag.
Uhhhh, I think that was it. Sorry for the run-on. But thought you would like to hear the straight scoop from someone who actually owns, commutes and races on the latest version.
Bottom line, each bike has it's idividual pro's and con's. Each bike is an outstanding machine and probably exceeds the capablities of it's owners 90% of the time. Get one and then start working down the list modding away what ever you don't like.
One this is absolutely clear. The reputation earned by the Busa early-on has snowballed to God-Like status. Any school girl can tell you what a Hayabusa is! No one even seems to notice the 12R, or know anything about it.
Example; My Kawi Concours riding neighbor strolls over to look at my new bike. He looks at it briefly and says "You wanted a fast bike, you shoulda got a Hayabusa". I didn't even waste my breath explaining that they are virtually identical in performance... nothing will change the minds of those who have read otherwise, despite me just getting back from canyon riding and racing both all afternoon.
On the up-side, my Silver bike is kind of bland looking, and has not received any kind of un-wanted attention either. I pull up, people look at me like an older guy with a tank bag, and they are soon shocked when they see my tail light growing smaller on the horizon.
Oh, and my bike seems to put much more weight on the riders wrists, where his puts more weight on you're butt. But he has bar risers and I guess they will be added to my list of "must-have" goodies as well.
I now must appologize for the double run-on.
Shoot me specific questions I'll give feedback or test it out against his bike.
Good post! Very informative.
I have the '05 Busa that he is referring to and we have switched bikes. The ZX felt tall to me and I did not like the ergos. The front brakes were mushy and lacked feel. The engine is very smooth and the trans shifts very easily, almost without feel, but the clutch was nice. The bike is fast but lacks bottom end after you get off a Busa and the stock exhaust is really quiet at speed. I have owned many Suzuki's over the years and apparently I prefer the feel of a Suzuki over a Kawasaki. We did run side by side to about 170, but, I am positive that he was sandbagging me since his bike has a 2-3 mph trap speed advantage on mine at LACR off of identical 60' and 330' times so it clearly has more HP once it gets on the pipe. The Busa kills it from lower RPM roll ons. We weighed both bikes at LACR and the ZX weighed 525 pounds to the Busa's 550 lbs (must be my centerstand?). Direct comparisons in the lower gears are interesting since the ZX and the Busa are geared very close to the same in 1->3 (ZX .1% shorter in 1st; 2.2% shorter 2nd; 2.4% shorter 3rd) but the ZX has a 12500 RPM red line so it can stay in those gears a bit longer. 1T on the Busa's rear sprocket would equal the overall gearing difference in 2nd and 3rd. The ZX is geared 5.6% shorter in 4th; 8.9% shorter in 5th, and 7.4% shorter overall in 6th than the Busa so it really has a gearing edge when you get up in speed. You would have to go about 3T on the Busa's rear sprocket to be geared like the ZX in 4th->6th. Still, the Busa will roll on the ZX at lower RPM's in any gear and the top end on both bikes is said to be about the same stock. They both roll up to stupid fast speeds so fast that you do not even know until you finally have a chance to glance at the speedo.
After he sandbags me and leaves me for dead everywhere, I always remind him that I run 87 octane in the Busa. And, for some strange reason, I currently own the bragging rights at LACR since the Busa has gone slightly quicker in the 1/4 than the ZX in spite of its monster top end rush. But, the bikes are so close that it is almost impossible to pick a performance winner between them.
After he sandbags me and leaves me for dead everywhere, I always remind him that I run 87 octane in the Busa. And, for some strange reason, I currently own the bragging rights at LACR since the Busa has gone slightly quicker in the 1/4 than the ZX in spite of its monster top end rush. But, the bikes are so close that it is almost impossible to pick a performance winner between them.
I was afraid I would put folks off with the lenghty post.
Here is a pic of my bike and one with his. Perhaps I'll find the appropriate spot and post up new pics with my new windscreen, hugger and tire.
It's always good to "know thine enemy", and you guys are a much better crew to chat with compared to the 12 boards I have found so far.
For what it's worth, I always wanted a Busa as well and almost got an '04 Gixxer 1k, but I was looking for more comfort coming off my ZX9R. My mind was made up when I got a smoking deal on this bike, so I am not biased one way or the other.
All I know is good people, good bikes and good roads = good times. Dosn't matter what size, shape or brand.
Here is a pic of my bike and one with his. Perhaps I'll find the appropriate spot and post up new pics with my new windscreen, hugger and tire.
It's always good to "know thine enemy", and you guys are a much better crew to chat with compared to the 12 boards I have found so far.
For what it's worth, I always wanted a Busa as well and almost got an '04 Gixxer 1k, but I was looking for more comfort coming off my ZX9R. My mind was made up when I got a smoking deal on this bike, so I am not biased one way or the other.
All I know is good people, good bikes and good roads = good times. Dosn't matter what size, shape or brand.
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