Why not teka vs. pc/mps fast etc????





CAT3

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#1
Read through the literature, and other sites for "testimonial" on the Teka and seems much more comprehensive, individual cyl fueling etc, no add-on / piggyback setup...Just cant help but to think that:
A Lots of ppl dont know how to tune, or adjust maps etc...

B There is some underlying issue with the Teka I havent found in my search yet...

C Just easier to go with a piggyback and have someone else do the stuff for you...

Not trying to flame anyone for what product they use, or dont, I just want to understand the real differences and I like havng more control over the ECU functions...
 

loboboy

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#3
I have one but have not spent enough time on the dyno to figure it out completely. it does make changes and alters the fuel curve but to what degree and how accurate I am still learning. right now with a full Yosh Tri-Oval system and BMC race filter the bike is much more rideable and smoother on the power delivery than when it was stock. I tried a small airbox mod and really didn't get the results I was looking for. I may try it again later but for now the bike runs great so I will leave it with the stock airbox.

As for using the Teka it is much easier to use, but if you don't have a dyno don't buy one. A PC with a good loaded map will work better unless you have a Dyno.

My Dyno person is in the process of ordering his Eddy Current setup for his DynoJet 250 so after he gets that all setup I am going to work with the Teka again and If I don't get the results I am looking for I will move onto a PC and go that route.
 
#4
Well if this helps you all, my 1397, 2 intake cams a little head work, so far it makes 191 hp and is set up on the Teka. I'v had it to two shops for a tune and they both tell me that it will be better on the street if I use a PC.
But the class I'm building the bike for wont let me have a piggy back unit on your bike. So thats why I went down this road...
race.gif

But my bike still goes like stink and I still cant ET my MPH
so I'm not using all that power yet.
The bike is a little ruff around town but I can live with it.
If you have a little bit of work done and dont have a PC
then IMOP you dont need one.
This just what I'v done and so far it's still pulling hard and would be better but the rule book says NO so I'm keaping it this way...
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#5
The Techlusion unit can ONLY ADD FUELING as per their website, which I've included below. This already puts the Techlusion at a disadvantage in comparison to a Power Commander. You get what you pay for. Apparently, the Techlusion is less expensive and you receive less capability for its lesser cost. As for myself, I would NEVER consider a Techlusion.

The Techlusion is incapable of allowing you to retune your cruise ranges for better fuel economy nor will you be able to remove fuel as required in ANY specific RPM/throttle positions to achieve an optimal A/F ratio throughout, as can easily be achieved with the use of a Power Commander.

That leaves the Power Commander the reigning king for best device to remap the Hayabusa's fuel injection.

Click on their FAQ questions and you will see they admit their unit CANNOT remove fueling where necessary...

http://www.techlusion.com/
 

CAT3

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#6
Quasar, I feel what your saying. Question though, why doesn't the PC offer more tuning abilities, like advance, idle circuit etc? I was supposed to be heading up to CO. in two weeks to have a Rapid Bike 2 installed and dyno tuned, but since my buddy decided to fall off his two week old CBR1000rr we've postponed the trip until Veteran's Day W/e. Comparing the PC to the RB is like the Tekka to the PC, makes it seems infantile and dated. The RB offers far more parameters and flexibility. Anyway, I know there are extremely parts out there that fit the "one size fits all" bill, so for me the hands down choice is the Rapid Bike. Hopefully after install, tuning and some riding I can post up the results, a full blown write-up on it with uncensored opinion and more ppl will be hearing about it I'm sure. Thanks for all the input.

Charlie
 
#7
(CAT3 @ Sep. 25 2006,10:20) Quasar, I feel what your saying.  Question though, why doesn't the PC offer more tuning abilities, like advance, idle circuit etc?  I was supposed to be heading up to CO. in two weeks to have a Rapid Bike 2 installed and dyno tuned, but since my buddy decided to fall off his two week old CBR1000rr we've postponed the trip until Veteran's Day W/e.  Comparing the PC to the RB is like the Tekka to the PC, makes it seems infantile and dated.  The RB offers far more parameters and flexibility.  Anyway, I know there are extremely parts out there that fit the "one size fits all" bill, so for me the hands down choice is the Rapid Bike.  Hopefully after install, tuning and some riding I can post up the results, a full blown write-up on it with uncensored opinion and more ppl will be hearing about it I'm sure.  Thanks for all the input.

Charlie
1. Rapid Bikes maintains tight access control on its info and maps, which apparently only allows authorized shops and actual owners access to their actual intricate or proprietary technical info on their website. This doesn’t promote its sales; it hinders it, as no intricate technical details may be obtained readily or possibly without cost.

2. It is a foreign-made product and all technical assistance will be difficult, as even their home page is in another language. Yes, you may click on the English version, but its wording is less than comprehensibly fluent.

3. These devices are far more costly than a Power Commander and since they don’t readily offer a technical breakdown of their mapping capabilities via an actual mapping example, there’s no means to actually verify they offer more capability than a Power Commander USB, which can have an Ignition Module, extended rev limiter, and accelerator pump added in addition to its shift kill. As per their website, their cabling is a cost in addition to their module. Anyone starting to see the buckaroos adding up here?

4. Even in English, they refer to the models of Hayabusas that their unit is available for as “dal 2003â€, which I can only surmise means “From 2003â€. What then do earlier Hayabusa’s use? If it means “Before 2003â€, what then do newer Hayabusa’s use?

5. Finally, what dyno-tuners in the United States even have a clue as to how to tune these foreign clunkers?

This Rapid Bike device would be ill advised for use here in the States. This still leaves the Power Commander king here in the States for their abilities and cost.

http://www.rapidbike.com/
 

CAT3

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Registered
#8
Quasar, let me run through the topics as you brought them up to the best of my ability.
Not sure in the bike world, but in the car world there is a pretty control over PCM access as well. I use software for tuning OBD-II PCM cars and although the software itself is very comprehensive for the end user, there is even more available to shops / tuners, as it should be. The end user, if interested can use the lite version which allows 10% deviation of parameters after tuned. 10% is A LOT when your talking AFR, spark etc. on a tuned setup. And yes there ways to get the full version of the software, although more restricted for now. I do agree it tends to hinder the sales and promotion of such products though.

My Busa is a foreign made product. I wont call Japan for help though
smile.gif
IIRC the product is actually only imported through a business in Michigan, which then distributes it to the 4-6 tuning shops authorized in its sales and installation. One is obviously in Colorado (I can pm you the name if interested, since not a sponsor I dont want to piss anyone off with it). I have talked to this shops owner and tuner quite extensively and feel pretty confident in his abilities. Also, from my experience, once tuned there shouldn't be much support needed, although there are always those one or two things that Murphy tends to bring with him.

More costly then PC? No. Definately not. From what I've found on the PC $270 average, add on ignition module $300, accelerator pump I believe is free upgrade? and not sure about the Rev Limiter. Either way, that alone is $570 no installed or tuned. I can get the RB2 installed and tuned for under $450 with lite software. Upgrade next year to the RB3 (allows multiple Maps to be stored in the box and accessed via a toggle switch on the fly adjustability) and cost will only be the difference (RB3 installed and tuned $530+/-). Wiring etc is included at those prices, obviously as I stated installed, but wanted to be clear. I see some ppl charge for PC Maps, others have helped ppl out with it, so pricing for any adjustments we'll call even. So far buckaroo's adding up on the PC side!

I have no idea on the dal issue you brought up. I went through the website, left a "inquiry" and was actually called back, albeit from a "proper" english wanker I had to listen carefully to converse with, but was called back. I've emailed my inquiry to PC (Dynojet) 4 times in the last 6months and have heard nothing, hate that, but I can only assume they are busy. And as said earlier, I was able to talk with the tuner I am taking my Busa too, who happens to use some of the same software for car tuning I use, so we were able to chat about parameters etc fluently.

Again, I believe there are 5 tuning shops in the US that are authorized RB shops. CO. I know for sure. then one in E. Coast, W. Coast, South (TX or something) and I think one more but I wasnt thinking to remember at the time. I was trying to get information to become a new dealership myself to not only help expand their business, but my future one.

Ill advised for some ppl I agree. Not everyone wants, nor needs a tuning package like this, or even the PC for that matter. My view is, if its just as capable or more than the current PC, and the price is better than I may be good to go, or may buy a dud, but I wont know unless I look outside the box.
My friend, here in AZ is running the RB3 on his GSXR1k, so I have been able to see the setup in person and talk with him about before and after difference. He's had nothing but good things to say about it. Unlike the occasional dumping on tune like the PC has (yes I know most are from improper loading of Maps = User error, but not all). The box can be swapped from one bike to another, with the only needing to get the correct harness, not sure if the PC can do this as well or not?
Once I actually get to the RB installed, I will post up available parameters, like accel pump function, idle circuit, fuel cells based off MAP vs. RPM etc.. BTW, the tuning shop has a load bearing version of the DJ to tune on, which is better than having to guess if the load seen on the rollers vs AFR reported on the wideband during tuning will be correct for real world load. I've either tuned cars on Mustang (or other eddie current loading dyno's) or on the street/closed track.

I appreciate the input, and am open minded on this, even though I seem to have my mind set. Thanks.

Charlie
 
#9
(CAT3 @ Sep. 25 2006,20:34) Quasar, let me run through the topics as you brought them up to the best of my ability.
Not sure in the bike world, but in the car world there is a pretty control over PCM access as well.  I use software for tuning OBD-II PCM cars and although the software itself is very comprehensive for the end user, there is even more available to shops / tuners, as it should be.  The end user, if interested can use the lite version which allows 10% deviation of parameters after tuned.  10% is A LOT when your talking AFR, spark etc. on a tuned setup.   And yes there ways to get the full version of the software, although more restricted for now.  I do agree it tends to hinder the sales and promotion of such products though.

My Busa is a foreign made product.  I wont call Japan for help though
smile.gif
 IIRC the product is actually only imported through a business in Michigan, which then distributes it to the 4-6 tuning shops authorized in its sales and installation.  One is obviously in Colorado (I can pm you the name if interested, since not a sponsor I dont want to piss anyone off with it).  I have talked to this shops owner and tuner quite extensively and feel pretty confident in his abilities.  Also, from my experience, once tuned there shouldn't be much support needed, although there are always those one or two things that Murphy tends to bring with him.

More costly then PC?  No.  Definately not.  From what I've found on the PC $270 average, add on ignition module $300, accelerator pump I believe is free upgrade? and not sure about the Rev Limiter.  Either way, that alone is $570 no installed or tuned.  I can get the RB2 installed and tuned for under $450 with lite software.  Upgrade next year to the RB3 (allows multiple Maps to be stored in the box and accessed via a toggle switch on the fly adjustability) and cost will only be the difference (RB3 installed and tuned $530+/-).  Wiring etc is included at those prices, obviously as I stated installed, but wanted to be clear.  I see some ppl charge for PC Maps, others have helped ppl out with it, so pricing for any adjustments we'll call even.  So far buckaroo's adding up on the PC side!

I have no idea on the dal issue you brought up.  I went through the website, left a "inquiry" and was actually called back, albeit from a "proper" english wanker I had to listen carefully to converse with, but was called back.  I've emailed my inquiry to PC (Dynojet) 4 times in the last 6months and have heard nothing, hate that, but I can only assume they are busy.  And as said earlier, I was able to talk with the tuner I am taking my Busa too, who happens to use some of the same software for car tuning I use, so we were able to chat about parameters etc fluently.  

Again, I believe there are 5 tuning shops in the US that are authorized RB shops.  CO. I know for sure.  then one in E. Coast, W. Coast, South (TX or something) and I think one more but I wasnt thinking to remember at the time.  I was trying to get information to become a new dealership myself to not only help expand their business, but my future one.  

Ill advised for some ppl I agree.  Not everyone wants, nor needs a tuning package like this, or even the PC for that matter.  My view is, if its just as capable or more than the current PC, and the price is better than I may be good to go, or may buy a dud, but I wont know unless I look outside the box.  
My friend, here in AZ is running the RB3 on his GSXR1k, so I have been able to see the setup in person and talk with him about before and after difference.  He's had nothing but good things to say about it.  Unlike the occasional dumping on tune like the PC has (yes I know most are from improper loading of Maps = User error, but not all).  The box can be swapped from one bike to another, with the only needing to get the correct harness, not sure if the PC can do this as well or not?  
Once I actually get to the RB installed, I will post up available parameters, like accel pump function, idle circuit, fuel cells based off MAP vs. RPM etc..  BTW, the tuning shop has a load bearing version of the DJ to tune on, which is better than having to guess if the load seen on the rollers vs AFR reported on the wideband during tuning will be correct for real world load.  I've either tuned cars on Mustang (or other eddie current loading dyno's) or on the street/closed track.

I appreciate the input, and am open minded on this, even though I seem to have my mind set.  Thanks.

Charlie
Hello Charlie,

You got way off track comparing your Busa to being built in Japan. We have no option if we want to purchase a vehicle that is solely built in Japan. Such is not the case with our accessory choices of a Power Commander verses an RB unit. Even so, there are countless Suzuki dealerships throughout this country and most are only a few miles apart from each other. The same cannot be said about authorized RB tuning shops. They are far and few in between. Big difference, wouldn't you say?

My post was not meant to deter you from purchasing the RB unit. I merely answered a number of questions about the RB unit and why I don’t find it an attractive unit in the least and especially not for the average Joe.

Depending upon which RB unit you purchase, it could easily cost more than a Power Commander even if you purchased the optional Dynojet Ignition Module, which incidentally, is rarely purchased by most who purchase a PCIII USB, making their choice of a PCIII USB far cheaper than ANY of the available RB units!

The fact that you stated that there are only 5 RB authorized tuning shops in the entire United States is another very good reason for most to stay clear of the RB unit. That means one hell of a hike for most guys, so there goes additional costs in fuel to haul their Hayabusa or fuel to ride it to the tuning shop. Anyway you stack it, that’s additional costs and fuel isn’t cheap these days, especially for long hauls. I believe the buckaroos are indeed stacked highest against the RB unit!

If the RB unit can only provide a 10% addition of fuel, it will prove itself insufficient for use with big bore/cam'ed engines and especially for use with NOS, which will require far beyond a 10% increase in fueling for anything over a 15 to 20-shot of NOS.

Let us not forget that the RB unit CANNOT remove fuel where necessary also. It appears the RB unit is quite limited for the money spent but hey, it’s your scratch to spend as you wish.

I wish you the best with your purchase should you take the RB route. It’s sometimes fun to be different, but it can also prove itself more expensive. You'll be able to ask virtually no one on these boards for any technical or troubleshooting assistance with the RB unit. You will find yourself very much alone in that category...
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