What caused the tankslapper??
- Thread starter Kat99
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This is why I dont stunt my busa, it could have been that terrible music playing. That would have distracted me. 
bazmaniac
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Yeah, outlawbusa....you nailed it !!!
....but even further to the point....WHY did he run up on something (ie: his riding buddy) ?!? He really couldn't help but panic when he did (concrete walls tend to have that effect on most people)....
If we all go back & take just a few more close looks at the (first ten seconds of) video....it becomes clear how this rider came to be in this awful situation
The reason this tankslapper happened was.....
"A distinct lack of communication between the crashed rider and his/her riding mate in front"
If you look very closely at the start of this video....you'll notice they are both in the SAME lane, right beside their mate in the car that's shooting the vid for them....
The riding buddy up front thinks he's doing his mate a favor by moving over to the right for him.....but, in reality, he has directly attributed to his mates' tankslapper and his subsequent crash immediately after it !!
Our wheelie guy has ALREADY ALLOWED for where his mate is DIRECTLY in front of him, and has ALREADY started aiming his bike towards....THE SAME PLACE (ie:...towards the right lane) !!!!
By the time (...only a few split seconds) our wheelie guy notices his mates (helpful???
) actions, he has to take immediate evasive action, hence the fast & hard put down, still on an angle, with two obstacles in front of him (his mate and the concrete dividing wall).You might also notice his body weight (courtesy of an impromptu wheelie touch-down) is bias towards the front end, which on touch-down, provides even further wrong rider input.
bazmaniac
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If I read your post correctly, you are pointing to rider error ie setting the front down with the tire out of alignment? If this is your point, I'd like to point out, I have done 50,000 wheelies in my lifetime if I have done one and every now and then I set one down that gives me head shake. Some are more agressive than others and none of them have developed into a slapper.
My question to you is, if I have had the same experience as the Wheelie Guy in the video multitudes of times without developing the slapper, then why did my bike settle down when this poor bloke ended up with nasty slapper that put him on the deck in less than two seconds?
The question here is not "Why do we get head shake" it's "Why and how does head shake develope into a slapper"?
(Actually, the question was...."What caused the tankslapper"?)
If the answer is not "Suspension" then what is the answer?
Much like yourself, Tufbusa.....I have devoted my complete riding existance (36-odd years+) to the delicate art of one wheel riding (...and i have many a scar for my all-consuming passion, but all those scars are worth it when I do a wheelie better than the last one) !
I too, have done countless wheelies of all types (sit-down; stand-up; one-handers; legs out; etc; etc.) in many & varied road conditions (day-time; nite-time; dry; hot; cold; wet; etc.) and I have experienced (not proud but honest enough to say) many an ungraceful landing !
To put it in a nutshell....This particular tankslapper was caused by a miscommunication between the crasher and his riding buddy (it's right there in the video....watch it again) !
Had his mate not moved over to the right lane on him, he quite possibly would have touched down (where he initially intended to, without an extra obstacle [his mate] besides the concrete wall), had a little head-shake (still being on a slight angle), and ridden on for more fun !!
bazmaniac
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This is why I dont stunt my busa, it could have been that terrible music playing. That would have distracted me.
jdsbusa
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Gotta agree with baz on this one....dude came down all crossed up veering off at a pretty good angle, you can see him going across lanes as the front settles. I've had only a couple headshakes after a wheelie and they were very mild and passed quickly - they were from wheelies much higher up than this guy got and much longer. I'm sure the lack of front tire speed didn't help me much but I sure as heck would never think about trying to come down crossed up like that.
bazmaniac
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cheers jd
,I'm glad someone else can see the same thing that i can see in the vid....
years ago my best riding buddy (gone now, r.i.p.) did the exact same thing to me as in the video (even after telling him to always hold his normal line when I'm behind him, coz i've already allowed for where he is)....luckily for me, I had a lot more room to move !
This dude in the vid panicked, and rightly so, coz as soon as his mate moved into his path he was faced with either hittin' the concrete wall, or running up the back of his mates' azz, neither a pleasant experience !
But, chalk it down to experience....hope the dude wasn't too banged up, & I hope it didn't turn him off doing what some of us love to do (the one-wheel thing) !
keep it fun,
bazman.
jdsbusa
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suzuka1980
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he let off too much gas when he was coming down i guess
Datsun350Z
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Bad Muffler Bearings /thread.
Well, maybe I shouldn't give up on you gents so easily? It's worth one last shot at getting the point across? 
lease:
I know it's my own fault with poor communication but some of you just aren't getting it?
What happened before the tire touched the pavement has nothing and I mean NOTHING to do with the bike going from head shake to a slapper.
What caused the head shake is immaterial. What is relivant, as the title says "What caused the tankslapper"!
The two video's were a perfect comparison of two bikes with head shake, one settles right back down and the other goes crazy wild with a slapper from hell. WHY? Why did one settle down and the other get wild? Both had identically the same problem! A really good answer would be "Both did not have the same suspension settings"! A really good answer to the OP's question would be "Poor suspension setup"!
Cause of the head shake? Front tire crossed up on both bikes! Cause of the tank slapper? Poor Suspension Setup! That is my final answer
Am I wrong? If so, please explain? But enough already of his mates were in the lane of travel or panic or not enough gas on the way down or etc. or etc.
lease:I know it's my own fault with poor communication but some of you just aren't getting it?
What happened before the tire touched the pavement has nothing and I mean NOTHING to do with the bike going from head shake to a slapper.
What caused the head shake is immaterial. What is relivant, as the title says "What caused the tankslapper"!
The two video's were a perfect comparison of two bikes with head shake, one settles right back down and the other goes crazy wild with a slapper from hell. WHY? Why did one settle down and the other get wild? Both had identically the same problem! A really good answer would be "Both did not have the same suspension settings"! A really good answer to the OP's question would be "Poor suspension setup"!
Cause of the head shake? Front tire crossed up on both bikes! Cause of the tank slapper? Poor Suspension Setup! That is my final answer
Am I wrong? If so, please explain? But enough already of his mates were in the lane of travel or panic or not enough gas on the way down or etc. or etc.
yut ughhhhh
IG.
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I think this has little to do with suspension setup as suspension is designed and is set up to handle riding conditions and not landing a wheelie, and has everything to do with 1)the initial misalignment of the front wheel combined with 2) hard landing which caused 3) initial throw of the front wheel in the direction opposite to misalignment, 4) steering damper not being able to subside the oscillations, and probably 5) the rider having a death grip on the bars which likely added to the front wheel misalignment and added to the increase of oscillations.
Also as another mate pointed out which I didn't notice, if the rider in front took his lane and the second rider had to land it rather quickly, this certainly contributed to the fact that the landing was hard. Well, the whole scene looked like the trouble would happen sooner or later.
Never heard and never seen a video of anyone landing a wheelie with a damper set too hard and crashing because of that. That would be a landing with the front croocked, and immediately highsiding on landing because the front is not able to turn quickly enough.
I think the most critical point in landing a wheelie is landing it softly while being on the gas. The bike will self correct the misaligned front. However, even slightly misaligned front (which is most often the case - no one can have it absolutely perfectly straight) combined with a hard landing produces that initial violent throw which the steering damper is not able to reduce enough for the oscillations to subside.
Improperly setup suspension will produce more headshake on a properly landed wheelie, and a well setup suspension will produce a lesser initial headshake on a properly landed wheelie. However, the best suspension and the best setup won't save a hard landing with a misaligned front. Steering damper is the only hope here.
I trust my stock damper with 90W fully synthetic gear oil to land wheelies even in winter time at subfreezing temperatures. BTW, don't be confused as 90W gear oil has the same viscosity as 30W or 40W motor oil. Someone posted a comparison chart a short time ago. I do agree that putting in 90W motor oil (if such exists) would be a risky thing to do.
Also as another mate pointed out which I didn't notice, if the rider in front took his lane and the second rider had to land it rather quickly, this certainly contributed to the fact that the landing was hard. Well, the whole scene looked like the trouble would happen sooner or later.
Never heard and never seen a video of anyone landing a wheelie with a damper set too hard and crashing because of that. That would be a landing with the front croocked, and immediately highsiding on landing because the front is not able to turn quickly enough.
I think the most critical point in landing a wheelie is landing it softly while being on the gas. The bike will self correct the misaligned front. However, even slightly misaligned front (which is most often the case - no one can have it absolutely perfectly straight) combined with a hard landing produces that initial violent throw which the steering damper is not able to reduce enough for the oscillations to subside.
Improperly setup suspension will produce more headshake on a properly landed wheelie, and a well setup suspension will produce a lesser initial headshake on a properly landed wheelie. However, the best suspension and the best setup won't save a hard landing with a misaligned front. Steering damper is the only hope here.
I trust my stock damper with 90W fully synthetic gear oil to land wheelies even in winter time at subfreezing temperatures. BTW, don't be confused as 90W gear oil has the same viscosity as 30W or 40W motor oil. Someone posted a comparison chart a short time ago. I do agree that putting in 90W motor oil (if such exists) would be a risky thing to do.
Please
Tufbusa---->
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