the interview

[MrGxr]

Good luck with the interview and job offer. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[Poppy]

Be sure to let us know how the interview went..........

 

[el stumpo]

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset. My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

 

[ike]

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,18:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset.  My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

I agree. They were open for business before you and they will be open for business after you but that should never stop you from getting paid what you know you are worth. I really hope you land that higher paying job.
If your boss does not realize your worth he does not deserve you.

 

[Wag]

(MrGxr @ Aug. 15 2007,15:36)

(Wag @ Aug. 14 2007,20:11)

(warwgn @ Aug. 14 2007,07:34)

(Wag @ Aug. 13 2007,17:45) Best of luck to you. If you're going to be out this way on Wed, let me know. If you're still around late, let's get together for dinner and bullshid stories.

--Wag--

I'm going the other direction, heading up to Farmington by way of grants and Thoreau.

We do need to get together one of these days, if this all goes through I will be able to get a bike again

It's sad you been here this long already and we still aint set down yet

My life will slow down soon and I can get back to enjoying it and relaxing with friends

I am a great bullshidder so that wont be a problem when we get around to it!!!!

I can't wait!

--Wag--

WAG, we could go over there and visit. I hear there's a great burger joint.

How 'bout Saturday?

--Wag--

 

[BA BUSA]

Good Luck on the interview

 

[Over_Easy]

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,15:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset.  My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

There is more to this story than you are letting on to believe.

First of all you should have had your salary negotiations agreed upon in writing BEFORE making the job change. If you didn't bring it up before the training/job change that's your fault. If I spent $20k to train you and all of a sudden you came back to me after and said I need more money I'd kick your @ss out too. WTF? That's an ambush tactic and not taken lightly by employers.

Also, why would they then hire two consulatants each making 3X your salary when they could replace you with a single individual for less as that's obviously all it took to get the job done?

I've been laid off once myself (late last year) due to consolidation but there is something rotten in Denmark with this story. Looks like grapes going sour.

But everything happens for a reason. I'm into a career now I wish I would have entered into years ago. Hopefully, the same will happen for you.

 

[Wag]

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 15 2007,19:25)

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,15:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset. My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

There is more to this story than you are letting on to believe.

First of all you should have had your salary negotiations agreed upon in writing BEFORE making the job change. If you didn't bring it up before the training/job change that's your fault. If I spent $20k to train you and all of a sudden you came back to me after and said I need more money I'd kick your @ss out too. WTF? That's an ambush tactic and not taken lightly by employers.

Also, why would they then hire two consulatants each making 3X your salary when they could replace you with a single individual for less as that's obviously all it took to get the job done?

I've been laid off once myself (late last year) due to consolidation but there is something rotten in Denmark with this story. Looks like grapes going sour.

But everything happens for a reason. I'm into a career now I wish I would have entered into years ago. Hopefully, the same will happen for you.

Dude, it's happened to me, too.

What goes sour is we don't realize what we are worth and as a result, we allow ourselves to be used. Employers have as much of an ego as anyone else and they refuse to even consider swallowing their pride and asking that a former employee come back to them. As a result, they end up paying more but it's probably what they should have been paying in the first place.

Chill out, bro. I highly doubt there's any underlying evil going on there.

--Wag--

 

[Wag]

Which brings us back to topic: How did the interview go, Dustin?

--Wag--

 

[VaBusa]

Good luck! Hope the interview goes (or went) well!

 

[warwgn]

well there is a lot to this story, so to start off I got my "good clothes" out and found a mouse had eaten a hole in the pants (country living) so I went to my back up pair of pants and had my wife getting them washed and ironed on tuesday while i was at work. She calls me at the end of the day and says theres a hole in the knee on those too and a small hole in the arm pit of my shirt

Just great now what I dont get paid till friday and have zero in the bank.............quick plan formulated in my head, tell her to come get me at 2:30, tell garndpa to get off work early too so he can get the little one off the bus after school.

So the wife picks me up at 2:30 and off we go to town to get some money and go shopping. As much as I hate to do it I hit the payday loan joint and grabbed a qiuck $400 (payback is $480) and headed for the mall which I knew would be a waste of time but sometimes it's just better to agree with you wife and let them find out they are wrong rather than tell them they are. So we hit dillards, JC pennys and sears and just as I thought they dont have any pants in 36 length or shirts that look good in my size 16 1/2 neck with 36/37 sleeves. I planned this one and went to the mall thats just across from the mens warehouse which was my next stop.

Only a few min in the store and I find the pants, shirt, and new tie and socks I like. They mark the pant up and get to hemming them, the strange thing is they have their pants marked wrong or it was a manufacturing defect. All their pants that fit me were marked as 36 waist and I wear a 34 so some sort of major conspiracy was going on. Anyway they got the pants done and $220 later off we went back home stopping only for a haircut and some sonic.

Get home and get my shirt pressed and creased and everything ready. I got to sleep in untill 6:30 then got ready loaded the truck and left by 7:45. After 167 miles of road construction and detours I rolled past the plant at 10:30 and went in to town to get s drink and some gas and look around for a few min. I put my shirt and tie on at the gas station while pumping in some gas then headed back to the plant. I hit a big pothole while putting the lid back on my Mountain Dew and of course it spilled all over my seat an pants

at least I had some tissues that soaked it up right away so didnt leave any spots or stains

. I rolled up to the security gate at exactly 11:30 (interview was at 12) did all the sign in and junk and parked my truck went back to the guard shack and waited for my escort.

First good break, the guy comes out to escort me in and turns out he is one of the managers, and he is limping a little and says for me to be patient with him he is recovering from a broken foot. He was hit while on his bike coming to work a while back, sucks for him but bingo i got common ground right off so we start discussing bikes, his was a honda magna btw. He also rides dirt bikes, another bingo, the plant is only two miles from the dunes where we had a desert race so I bring that up knowing he must ride there as well. He does and it's one of his favorite spots to ride, so we talked about that for the 5 min it took us to get in the plant and to the production floor. We met the other manager briefly then the two of us went for the tour. That was also a bingo of sorts they build missle systems and I watch all those shows on discovery channel so I was familar with every system he showed me. The big system they are working on was featured on futureweapons not long ago and I was able to discuss it with some knowledge whic he was impressed with. (dont ask which system it was, not something to advertise) Anyway we contiue the tour and I just soak it all in and make notes in my head about what I see and how they go about their production process.

After the tour we head to an office and are joined by the other production manager and the plant manager and they procede to grill me and question me for about an hour and 15 min. I had and answer for every question and geard my answers toward lean manufacturing which I already know they are trying to implement. Toward the end of the interview the tell me they have three different supervisor positions QA, Production, and health and saftey then ask which one i would prefer?? That kinda threw me mentaly but I automaticly answered production since I like to be proactive and not reactive.

They were all done and I was going to the production managers office to with him and we talked a little and stopped on the floor and discussed some of the testing problems they were having then went to his office where my old boss is now working as a production supervisor (he was my inside source) so we talk for a few then the HR lady comes in and was surprised I was still there but was glad to catch me and we went to her office next. She interviewed me for another 30 mins, and discussed their benefits and stuff and then asked when I would be available for a second interview or to start.

Now finally all done and she escorts back out and I drive 167 miles back home. Later that night I got a call from my inside source and he said they liked me, his boss was impressed and said i seemed very knowledgeable. The QA manager said he would hire me but thought I didnt want to work for him. I know I said I would take either position and I for sure said it to the HR lady. Well at least i know it went well and seems the chances are good, now all I have to do is wait and see. They are off this friday so I think I will hear by next friday I hope.

Now back to work so I can get my peanuts

 

[warwgn]

(Wag @ Aug. 15 2007,19:03)

(MrGxr @ Aug. 15 2007,15:36)

(Wag @ Aug. 14 2007,20:11)

(warwgn @ Aug. 14 2007,07:34)

(Wag @ Aug. 13 2007,17:45) Best of luck to you.  If you're going to be out this way on Wed, let me know.  If you're still around late, let's get together for dinner and bullshid stories.

--Wag--

I'm going the other direction, heading up to Farmington by way of grants and Thoreau.

We do need to get together one of these days, if this all goes through I will be able to get a bike again

 It's sad you been here this long already and we still aint set down yet

 My life will slow down soon and I can get back to enjoying it and relaxing with friends

I am a great bullshidder so that wont be a problem when we get around to it!!!!

I can't wait!

--Wag--

WAG, we could go over there and visit. I hear there's a great burger joint.

How 'bout Saturday?

--Wag--

if you guys wanna come out here for a ride and meet for burgers in Bibo on saturday just let me know and I'll be happy to meet up at Bibo

 

[VaBusa]

Sounds like a good interview to me!!!

 

[Over_Easy]

Fantastic, things are looking good! Let us know when they hire you!

 

[Over_Easy]

(Wag @ Aug. 16 2007,02:57)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 15 2007,19:25)

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,15:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset.  My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

There is more to this story than you are letting on to believe.

First of all you should have had your salary negotiations agreed upon in writing BEFORE making the job change.  If you didn't bring it up before the training/job change that's your fault.  If I spent $20k to train you and all of a sudden you came back to me after and said I need more money I'd kick your @ss out too. WTF?  That's an ambush tactic and not taken lightly by employers.

Also, why would they then hire two consulatants each making 3X your salary when they could replace you with a single individual for less as that's obviously all it took to get the job done?  

I've been laid off once myself (late last year) due to consolidation but there is something rotten in Denmark with this story.  Looks like grapes going sour.

But everything happens for a reason.  I'm into a career now I wish I would have entered into years ago.  Hopefully, the same will happen for you.

Dude, it's happened to me, too.  

What goes sour is we don't realize what we are worth and as a result, we allow ourselves to be used.  Employers have as much of an ego as anyone else and they refuse to even consider swallowing their pride and asking that a former employee come back to them.  As a result, they end up paying more but it's probably what they should have been paying in the first place.

Chill out, bro.  I highly doubt there's any underlying evil going on there.

--Wag--

I agree 100% that employees allow themselves to be taken advantage of and don't get paid their worth. My wife is right in the middle of this delimma with her boss right now. She handed him her resignation (his jaw hit the floor) and he is now re-structuring the sales commissions (an 8% increase although her % of total sales is still higher than her total % of commissions) and she hasn't had a salary increase in two years...unacceptable. She has now been promised a quarterly bonus in lieu of the salary because if she gets a salary raise it becomes known (private family owned business) then everybody starts raising hell. I told her I don't care how he wants to structure it as long as it is a guaranteed money that pays equally what she has requested.

I guess my point is that if he was making for ex $50,000 and they were willing to let him go then they are not going to pay two guys 6x that, or a total of $300,000, to do the same job. Maybe they did end up paying more, but not $250,000 more just because they felt ambushed.

 

[Wag]

I understand your misunderstanding, however, in my own situation, my former employer paid my replacement nearly double what I was getting paid AND he had to have consultants come in on a regular basis to do all the things my replacement was simply unqualified to do. Add to that the fact that things simply don't work as well as they used to work and you have a guy who's paying literally three or four times what he paid me and getting LESS effective work for that money.

Kinda sad, actually. Many employers don't realize what they're pissing away by letting a good employee go.

--Wag--

 

[el stumpo]

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 15 2007,18:25)

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,15:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset. My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

There is more to this story than you are letting on to believe.

First of all you should have had your salary negotiations agreed upon in writing BEFORE making the job change. If you didn't bring it up before the training/job change that's your fault. If I spent $20k to train you and all of a sudden you came back to me after and said I need more money I'd kick your @ss out too. WTF? That's an ambush tactic and not taken lightly by employers.

Also, why would they then hire two consulatants each making 3X your salary when they could replace you with a single individual for less as that's obviously all it took to get the job done?

I've been laid off once myself (late last year) due to consolidation but there is something rotten in Denmark with this story. Looks like grapes going sour.

But everything happens for a reason. I'm into a career now I wish I would have entered into years ago. Hopefully, the same will happen for you.

Yes, there is more to it. Without going into something too long:

I was with the company for about 1.5 years when they asked me to help take over administration of our monitoring tools because the consulting company we were using jacked their rates up 200%. As a good employee, I did what I was asked. You are correct (and lesson learned) that I should have asked for compensation up front. I asked another employee who was with the company 15 years if I should do that and he said, "no, they'll take care of you". They never did. I would ask about once a month and they kept saying "we're working on it" "it's with HR", "we're doing a market analysis for your position" etc. 8 months later, same lines.

The $20k cited was over the 2 years I was there. Not a one shot deal.

The reason they did not replace me with one individual (from what I was told) was because of the corporate head count game. Consultants are not headcount. I asked why I was not compensated anywhere near what the consultants made and they did not give me an answer.

The department I worked in (and overall), are considered heavy in the personnel department. My headcount gone looks good under G&A. They pay consultants out of a different bucket, so it's not as noticable...

Sour? Naw... They are a good company. Just a few managers that cared more about the bottom line than keeping good employees.... Changed jobs and got a nice increase in salary.

 

[Over_Easy]

(whitele @ Aug. 16 2007,12:09)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 15 2007,18:25)

(whitele @ Aug. 15 2007,15:27)

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 13 2007,19:36) Those people obviously were not worth their salt.

An employer will pay a reasonable and justifiable pay increase if the employee is productive and considered an irreplacable asset.  My wife, who is grossly underpaid IMO, just recently gave notice to her employer and the owner has seen the light and is changing the entire companie's pay structure.

There is no such thing as an "irreplaceable" employee. My company spent over $20k to train me (excluding my salary, just travel and class expenses) and when I said I need to be compensated better because of my job change, they practically said don't let the door hit me on the way out.

They had to hire two consultants to replace me - both of them making over 3 times what I make. Go figure...

There is more to this story than you are letting on to believe.

First of all you should have had your salary negotiations agreed upon in writing BEFORE making the job change.  If you didn't bring it up before the training/job change that's your fault.  If I spent $20k to train you and all of a sudden you came back to me after and said I need more money I'd kick your @ss out too. WTF?  That's an ambush tactic and not taken lightly by employers.

Also, why would they then hire two consulatants each making 3X your salary when they could replace you with a single individual for less as that's obviously all it took to get the job done?  

I've been laid off once myself (late last year) due to consolidation but there is something rotten in Denmark with this story.  Looks like grapes going sour.

But everything happens for a reason.  I'm into a career now I wish I would have entered into years ago.  Hopefully, the same will happen for you.

Yes, there is more to it. Without going into something too long:

I was with the company for about 1.5 years when they asked me to help take over administration of our monitoring tools because the consulting company we were using jacked their rates up 200%. As a good employee, I did what I was asked. You are correct (and lesson learned) that I should have asked for compensation up front. I asked another employee who was with the company 15 years if I should do that and he said, "no, they'll take care of you". They never did. I would ask about once a month and they kept saying "we're working on it" "it's with HR", "we're doing a market analysis for your position" etc. 8 months later, same lines.

The $20k cited was over the 2 years I was there. Not a one shot deal.

The reason they did not replace me with one individual (from what I was told) was because of the corporate head count game. Consultants are not headcount. I asked why I was not compensated anywhere near what the consultants made and they did not give me an answer.

The department I worked in (and overall), are considered heavy in the personnel department. My headcount gone looks good under G&A. They pay consultants out of a different bucket, so it's not as noticable...

Sour? Naw... They are a good company. Just a few managers that cared more about the bottom line than keeping good employees.... Changed jobs and got a nice increase in salary.

Sorry, if it looked like I was jumping your sh*t, white. Just trying to fill in the gaps.

$20k spread out over two years of training...that's a long @ss training period. If they are throwing more responsibility on your plate than the original position you agreed upon for x amount of pay, always do yourself a favor and get appropriate increase in pay down in writing before accepting the position. If they are not willing to do so then they simply aren't looking at you as a valued employee then you need to take your talents elsewhere.

Also, companies don't have to pay all the benefits for third party consultants (health, 401(k), matches, etc.). This saves them a lot of money and they don't have to worry about turnover.

I'm glad you ended up somewhere better.

 

[el stumpo]

(Over_Easy @ Aug. 16 2007,12) Sorry, if it looked like I was jumping your sh*t, white. Just trying to fill in the gaps.

$20k spread out over two years of training...that's a long @ss training period. If they are throwing more responsibility on your plate than the original position you agreed upon for x amount of pay, always do yourself a favor and get appropriate increase in pay down in writing before accepting the position. If they are not willing to do so then they simply aren't looking at you as a valued employee then you need to take your talents elsewhere.

Also, companies don't have to pay all the benefits for third party consultants (health, 401(k), matches, etc.). This saves them a lot of money and they don't have to worry about turnover.

I'm glad you ended up somewhere better.

Over_Easy - not a problem. We're all adults here for the most part.

I took no offense....

The training was nice - Unix, Windows, Report Writing, HP. THe cost also includes airfare/hotels/meals. Training itself was maybe $11k or so.

I hear ya on the get it in writing. It was definitely a lesson I learned. I though I was being the good employee by doing what I was asked above and beyond my duties. I thought wrong.

Oh, the 3X is what the consultants salary was vs. my salary. Not what they paid the consultant. I hate to see that bill!

I hope this job works out better. Funny part is another part of the company I used to work for called me asking if I was interested in a job.

 

[el stumpo]

oh yea.. warqgn - Good luck and let us know how it goes!!