Suspension

DaCol.

D' Colonel
Donating Member
This is for us suspension 101 people who just want or need to know what does what. Like all great riders, they come in the pits and tell the engineers what the bike is doing, and THEN they know what to fix. So the following is a quick and simple " WHAT'S HAPPENING"

LACK OF COMPRESSION DAMPINING (FORK)

1) Front-end dive while on the brakes becomes excessive.
2) Rear end wants to come around when using front brakes.
3) Front suspension bottoms out with a solid hit under heavy braking.
4) Front end has a mushy and semi-vague feeling

TOO LMUCH COMPRESSION DAMPING (FORK)

1) Overly harsh ride with the front wheel
2) Bumps are felt directly through the chassis instantly
3) Brake dive is reduced drastically though the chassis is upset by bumps during braking.

LACK OF REBOUND DAMPING (FORK)

1) Fork offers plush ride when riding straight up. But as speed is increased the feeling of contol is lost.
2) After hitting bumps at speed the front end tends to chatter or bounce.
3) When entering a corner at speed the bike will tend to wallow or porpoise before settling down.
4) As you increase speed, steering needs to be more aggressive and both chassis attitude and pitch becomes a real problem. You lose front end feed back after a hard countersteering turn.

TOO MUCH REBOUND DAMPING (FORK)

1) Ride is harsh
2) Under hard acceleration out of a corner the front end feels like it wants to "wiggle". And the tire feels it isn't staying in contact with the pavement when on the gas.

LACK OF COMPRESSION (REAR SHOCK)

1) Too much squat under acceleration and wants to steer wide exiting corners.
2) Hitting bumps at speed causes rear end to bottom
3) Chassis attitude affected too much by large dips and steering control becomes difficult.

TOO MUCH COMPRESSION DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Ride is harsh, but gets worst the faster you go
2) Harshness hurts rear tire traction over bumps, especially during acceleration.
3) There is very little rear end squat under acceleration
4) Bumps are felt directly through the chassis and when hit a speed, the rear end attempts to kick up.

LACK OF REBOUND DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Ride is plush at cruising speeds, but as speeds increase the chassis begins to wallow and weave.
2) Poor traction over bumps under hard acceleration.
3) Rear tire tries to chatter under hard acceleration.
4) Rear end can begin to pogo after hitting a bump

TOO MUCH REMOUND DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Very harsh ride with rear suspension action very poor with vague feeling
2) Poor traction over bumps during hard acceleration. Because of the lack of suspension action.
3) Bike wants to run wide in corners since rear is packed down, which forces a nose-high attitude.
4) Rear end wants to hop and skip when throttle is chopped during corner entries.



Ok, so this is what to look for before you change anything. And make sure you only change ONE thing at a time and ride before changing again. Really, you need to feel the bike and know what it is doing BEFORE you change anything. So, have Fun and Feel like a Champ, by just doing it their way.
 
beerchug.gif


Good stuff
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(DaCol. @ May 21 2007,13:54) This is for us suspension 101 people who just want or need to know what does what. Like all great riders, they come in the pits and tell the engineers what the bike is doing, and THEN they know what to fix. So the following is a quick and simple " WHAT'S HAPPENING"

LACK OF COMPRESSION DAMPINING (FORK)

1) Front-end dive while on the brakes becomes excessive.
2) Rear end wants to come around when using front brakes.
3) Front suspension bottoms out with a solid hit under heavy braking.
4) Front end has a mushy and semi-vague feeling

TOO LMUCH COMPRESSION DAMPING (FORK)

1) Overly harsh ride with the front wheel
2) Bumps are felt directly through the chassis instantly
3) Brake dive is reduced drastically though the chassis is upset by bumps during braking.

LACK OF REBOUND DAMPING (FORK)

1) Fork offers plush ride when riding straight up. But as speed is increased the feeling of contol is lost.
2) After hitting bumps at speed the front end tends to chatter or bounce.
3) When entering a corner at speed the bike will tend to wallow or porpoise before settling down.
4) As you increase speed, steering needs to be more aggressive and both chassis attitude and pitch becomes a real problem. You lose front end feed back after a hard countersteering turn.

TOO MUCH REBOUND DAMPING (FORK)

1) Ride is harsh
2) Under hard acceleration out of a corner the front end feels like it wants to "wiggle". And the tire feels it isn't staying in contact with the pavement when on the gas.

LACK OF COMPRESSION (REAR SHOCK)

1) Too much squat under acceleration and wants to steer wide exiting corners.
2) Hitting bumps at speed causes rear end to bottom
3) Chassis attitude affected too much by large dips and steering control becomes difficult.

TOO MUCH COMPRESSION DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Ride is harsh, but gets worst the faster you go
2) Harshness hurts rear tire traction over bumps, especially during acceleration.
3) There is very little rear end squat under acceleration
4) Bumps are felt directly through the chassis and when hit a speed, the rear end attempts to kick up.

LACK OF REBOUND DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Ride is plush at cruising speeds, but as speeds increase the chassis begins to wallow and weave.
2) Poor traction over bumps under hard acceleration.
3) Rear tire tries to chatter under hard acceleration.
4) Rear end can begin to pogo after hitting a bump

TOO MUCH REMOUND DAMPING (REAR SHOCK)

1) Very harsh ride with rear suspension action very poor with vague feeling
2) Poor traction over bumps during hard acceleration. Because of the lack of suspension action.
3) Bike wants to run wide in corners since rear is packed down, which forces a nose-high attitude.
4) Rear end wants to hop and skip when throttle is chopped during corner entries.



Ok, so this is what to look for before you change anything. And make sure you only change ONE thing at a time and ride before changing again. Really, you need to feel the bike and know what it is doing BEFORE you change anything. So, have Fun and Feel like a Champ, by just doing it their way.
you're scenarios are about 1/2 right...the other 1/2?..has more to do with improper springing than it does damping...and trust me...if you're "Bottoming Out" anything?...adding comp damping is a duct-tape and bubble gum move...as "that's" definantly.."Not Enough Spring"...ya got the general idea on the other 1/2 though and...L8R, Bill.
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Jinskster, my point is not to change anything but to know what is happening and where to correct it. My intention was not to give settings and go into springs, baffeling, oils and other things. Just where to look and what does what. If they want to do settings, they can go to the thread you wrote. But, before that, I think they need to know what the bike is doing and then where to look for the correction. As I said, this is Suspension 101  
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AND KNOWING'S HALF THE BATTLE !!!!! GO JOE !!!!!!!

Am I showing my age ?? (GI-JOE) Remember that ? after every show ?
 
OK great info for making some small changes. Can ai ask for one more thing? Details on where and what each of these adjusters are? The screw on top of the forks right or left for dampening compression type stuff. Thank you very much for all the info I am heavy and I am sure I need a bigger spring but some of this stuff has made me not as happy with my Busa as I could be. I put in some SV650 dogbones to lift the rear a little and I felt it improved the handling some but still not as happy as I was on my 89 GSXR1100. Maybe its just me getting older but I am not as confident in the corners as I was on my old bike. I kept telling myself I would get used to it that it was just me spending 62,000 miles on an old fork oil leaking probably dead shock biek and now I was on something brand new. some of the things are exactly what I feel wollowing and porposing going into the corner and have trouble keeping it down tight coming out of the corner like you have to let it go wide. I noticed new tires make a hell of a difference on the Busa too older tires make it very hard to get into a corner correctly you have to fight to get it down off the flat middle.
 
(race24x @ May 22 2007,05:26) OK great info for making some small changes. Can ai ask for one more thing? Details on where and what each of these adjusters are? The screw on top of the forks right or left for dampening compression type stuff. Thank you very much for all the info I am heavy and I am sure I need a bigger spring but some of this stuff has made me not as happy with my Busa as I could be. I put in some SV650 dogbones to lift the rear a little and I felt it improved the handling some but still not as happy as I was on my 89 GSXR1100. Maybe its just me getting older but I am not as confident in the corners as I was on my old bike. I kept telling myself I would get used to it that it was just me spending 62,000 miles on an old fork oil leaking probably dead shock biek and now I was on something brand new. some of the things are exactly what I feel wollowing and porposing going into the corner and have trouble keeping it down tight coming out of the corner like you have to let it go wide. I noticed new tires make a hell of a difference on the Busa too older tires make it very hard to get into a corner correctly you have to fight to get it down off the flat middle.
Ok, but this is just a general statement and not any set settings because I can't ride your bike and make minor adjustments. Remember also, because of your build, weight and comfort or handling desire things can be different on each bike.

Suspension Settings

FRONT  FORK

Spring Pre-Lod Adjustment
There are eight lines on the side of the spring adjuster (that's the top of your fork  with the screw head on top)

Position 0 is the top and position 8 (minimum pre-load) is the bottom line. Factory setting is with the 5th line showing. I suggest you start with standard settings and go from there.

Damping Force Adjustment
Rebound side
That's adjusted by turning the screw head on  top of the fork leg. Turn clockwise for stiffest position. Standard is 3 out from stiffest position.

Compression Side

This is the screw on the bottom rear of the leg just above the front axle. Stiffest position is fully turned clockwise. Standard is 9 clicks out from the stiffest position.

Factory Recommendations on front forks

Solo Riding  

Spring Preload adjuster           Damping Force Adjuster
                                           Rebound      Compression
Softer             line 5           4 clicks out     11 clicks out
Standard               5           3 clicks out       9 clicks out
Stiffer                    6           3 clicks out       9 clicks out

Remember only adjust one thing at a time, ride the bike and then see what you need. Also, this assumes that the fork oil and springs are not worn or gone solf. For futher settings I suggest you look up Jinksters thread on the settings he has. I am just giving you the basic, where each adjustment is made and where to start from.

REAR SUSPENSION

SPRING PRE-LOAD ADJUSTMENT
The set spring length is 180 mm which is the MAX spring pre-load.
If you set it at 190 mm you'll be at it's minimum pre-load setting
Stock is 183 mm

Damping Force Adjustment
Rebound Side
Left side just below the chain (bottom runner)  and in front and behind the dog bone
Fully turning clockwise to stop to get it's stiffest position
Turn back 11 clicks  for standard position.
You fine tune by aligning two punch marks making them align up (you can see them on the nut/head area

Compression Side
Left side top and rear of shock mounting bolt
Turn clock wise to stiffest position.
Stock setting 8 clicks out
Again, fine tune by aligning up punch marks

STANDARD SUSPENSION SETTINGS

Spring Set Length          Damping Force Adjuster
                                       Rebound          Compression
Softer       183mm (7.6")       13 clicks              9 clicks
Standard  183mm                 11 clicks              8 clicks
Stiffer       183mm                  10 clicks             7 clicks

Mine are set at 12 Rebound and 9 compression. But that's just me and the way I ride. Of course as the suspension settles and wears you have to make changes. Also, I ONLY ride Solo.

Hope this helps you .
 
You rock that will help alot. I want to have my forks redone and probably after 7 yearson Maine roads should have my rear shock done also plus a heavier spring ( I weigh 265 and ride 2 up quite a bit) but this will let me make a few changes and see if I can make it better until I can get those parts in. Just a suggestion from me to anyone else doing this I learned a long time ago with my stock car record all of your changes and make one at a time that way you have a log to go back to and see what that change did to the feel of the bike.
 
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