Suspension/tire help?

Mr Bogus

Trouble Makers Inc.
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BT021 Bridgestones at 40psi. these have around 5K on them and are just about toast.. Tonight I could feel them "pushing" through the corners getting off/on the highway and so took a peek at them tonight.. just about on the wear bars all the way around with notable "rolling" around treads...

I have never had a front tire that went belly up before the rear, much less a "tour" tire at 5K miles..

not sure how I would rate my "riding style" but I do not think I am all that aggressive a rider myself..

any clues?

1.10 springs/ gold valves 1" sag rebound/compression are at about mid settings with 40 psi on the tires..

Since putting these on I have never really liked the tires (always felt "loose")

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oh this is only the front (in case it was not obvious) the rear tire is about 1/2 to 2/3 worn and is actually in much better shape than the front..
 
Well, "back in the day"I experienced the same problem with the front on mine with my 2ct's but I figured out that I had my spring rate set too hard (it was when I was niaeve about suspension)
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felt very un-easy and I always felt like the front was a-drift and pushing in the turns
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Did you set up the suspension yourself? how many heat cycles/ miles on the rubber?
what how many lines out are you spring currently set at with 1.1? how much do you wiegh?
after you answer theses I can tell you more about what could be causing the problem.

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felt very un-easy and I always felt like the front was a-drift and pushing in the turns[/quote]
only started on these tires, the Pirelli Corsa3 worked fine, felt great and tire wear was normal (2 rears to 1 front)

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Did you set up the suspension yourself?[/quote]
Not really, the system was setup as per RaceTeck specs and then sag was set with me on bike (about 1" in full gear)But I see where you are going... perhaps compression is too stiff pushing the tire through the corner?

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how many heat cycles/ miles on the rubber?[/quote]
These are "technically" a sport tour tire and I only have a few more "spirited" rides on them, never enough to really overheat the tire, just some fun.. (Eureka Springs was the most abusive of the runs and I was not riding any harder than anyone else there. Other than that, these tires hit the ground in March or April and the date code on tires if from sept of 07

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how many lines out are you spring currently set at with 1.1? how much do you wiegh?[/quote]

3 lines and that was to get the 1" sag.. I probably come in around 250 with full gear..
 
Well, other than the the chance your compression is set up a little to stiff and your rebound too soft because there are less bumps on the track. As good as ppl are that set race suspension at the track, somtimes they dont realize that you do need more cush in the turns on the street.....
I would recommend theat you run two different set-ups, one for the street and one for the track. You may find it fits you a LOT better if you run the comp. a bit more stiff on the track then the street an less rebound ect ect... ( just make sure you EVERYTING down so when you find what works bes,t you can always change to it for the street and track)
You can also try taking a bit of comp. out of it and see if makes a difference for the better, just keep track of where you are currently set at on paper.

Anything short of that would be the quality of the compound you are running, a corsa 3 is going to grip like there is no tommorow where a "touring tire" is going to cost you some new fairings and a medical bill. a 500lb bike with 250 rider is going to tax the "touring tire" just as hard as the corsa 3 but the "touring tire" will lose traction and push before the corsa3 ever will.
It may just be that your really exceeding the limit of the tire you are running on the bike, and its just that simple or it could be more complex.
No matter the next step is for you to check the tire pressure and make sure it isnt too high, then start tracking some comp. and rebound settings of your own and see if there is any improvement. If not then I would suspect a wimpy compound of rubber.
Let me know what all you find and I dont know if you have tried to tune suspension before but it sounds like you have a good idea of what it going on, nd realize that the sooner you get comfy enough to tune your own suspersion the better.
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BT021 Bridgestones at 40psi.  these have around 5K on them and are just about toast..  Tonight I could feel them "pushing" through the corners getting off/on the highway and so took a peek at them tonight.. just about  on the wear bars all the way around with notable "rolling" around treads...

I have never had a front tire that went belly up before the rear, much less a "tour" tire at 5K miles..

not sure how I would rate my "riding style" but I do not think I am all that aggressive a rider myself..

any clues?

1.10 springs/ gold valves  1" sag  rebound/compression are at about mid settings with 40 psi on the tires..

Since putting these on I have never really liked the tires (always felt "loose")

DSC_0008.JPG<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/1gighost/Tires/photo#5229802069660155554">DSC_0009.JPG<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/1gighost/Tires/photo#5229802081479355474">DSC_0010.JPG<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/1gighost/Tires/photo#5229802090896673714">DSC_0011.JPG
To start with, I am guessing that your tire pressure is too high.

"Though many sportbike tires indicate 40 psi on the sidewall, I recommend 32 psi front and rear on road and track when cold. If you are two-up with a heavier rider in back (180 pounds or more), use a pound or two more in the rear.
Take the pressure when the tires are cold, then take it again it's hot. It shouldn't rise more than 10 percent. If it does, your tires are under-inflated. If it only rises 1 or 2 pounds, your tires may be over-inflated. For instance, if a tire at 32 psi cold measures 36 or 37 when warm, you may wish to experiment with a slightly higher pressure. If it only indicates 33 psi when warm, you may wish to reduce pressure."￾
Quote: Reg Pridmore in Smooth Riding the Pridmore Way, page 139 and 140

I have followed this rule since 2004, when his book came out, and a lot of my tire problems have been minimized.
The uneven wear in the front most consider to be normal. The stress on the front tread is very different in the corners, than the rear. To illustrate how this happens, take 4 or 5 lead pencils with erasers and hold them all together, with the eraser side down. Take a smooth surface and holding the pencils straight upright, drag the group of erasers along the surface. You see that the erasers will be moved back from the direction of travel and the leading edge of each eraser will experience the most wear. This is like the treads of the tire, with the leading edge, experiencing more wear than the outer edge, of each tread portion, and on both sides of the tire.
All my tires wear this way in the front, with some more than others. (My PP's are the worst so far for this Cupping type of wear).
I don't feel anything when I am riding, but when I look at them, or feel them, they feel rough.
If I was to change the pressure (up or down) after this wear was started, the cupping would most likely cause some weird handling, as it tries to recut the edges of each tread portions to the new wear pattern.

In looking at your tread wear you are fairly aggressive in the corners. My chicken strips on the back are fairly close to the edge, but my fronts are not near as close. Yours look like they are very close to the edge, so you hit the corners faster and/or harder than me.

Anyway, I have noticed by your posts that you are a very informed guy, so I hope I wasn't telling you things that you already know.
That was not my intent, and the others reading these posts have an opportunity to see my point of view and compare it to others, and pick the ones that they feel are best for them.
I would try the pressure first as your suspension is probably OK.
(I don't care for those tires either)
Good Luck!
 
You ain't the only one. I run 38lbs in my front BT-021 and at 2600 miles I'm almost in the same shape. It's on the top of the wear bars on both sides, at this rate it's not going to make it to 5000. I like them, they feel alright, just sliding that front off quick.
I'm not worried as I figure the 1000-1200 mile super-slab trip to Indy and back next month will take out the rest of the center of the rear. Replace them both when I get back (hopefully not before).
 
Went back and read some of the specs given by everyone. I'm 180lbs sans gear, RaceTech .95 springs with 4 lines preload showing. Stock valving, 10 clicks out compression, 2 out rebound. For experiment, I took another line of preload out (5 lines showing) and the front got very vague feeling, like it wasn't directly connected to the bars. Put it back real quick, didn't like that at all.
Anyway, as it's set I don't have any of the discribed "loose" feeling. As for lean angle, there is about 3/16" of "chicken strip" left on each side of the front but on the street that's all the bravery I've been able to dredge up.
I figure it's just a soft compound not quite matched to the rear.
 
As you probably know the BT021 isn't the stickiest tire to begin with. If the problem started with this set of tires and considering the amount of wear on them now, maybe it's just time to get a whole new set in a softer compound. If you want to stick with the Bridgestones then try the 015 which has a lot more stick but still isn't a full track day tire. Or....you could try the new 016 with the three compounds from edge to center. Both are better tires for you judging by your lean angles. It seems like you might be over driving those tires. JMO
 
My 2CT's have the tread roll up on the edges. I run F-35 R-36, but I only weigh 172#. I ride very aggresively in the corners, & the Michelin man is even worn off the edge of my front tire. I have never felt the tires push w/ Michelins. I tried the Pirelli Diablos & they pushed in the corners. I only got 2400 miles out of the Diablo rear. I average 5K out of a rear on Michelin PP or 2CT. I am about to change my current 2CT front, it has 7500 miles on it.
 
thanks all for the suggestions and this is always a learning process... my suspension ability is not all that great but working on it..

Glad I am not the only one with the issue on this tire at least..

I think the game plan is 1. one step softer on the compound 2. Soften up the suspension settings a bit..

This tire will not make for much fun at Bash so I suppose I better order up.. I will stick with the Bridgestone for at least 1 more set of tires..
 
First step is to find a tire you like and stick with it. If you tune your suspension with Bridgestones then move to Dunlops, you'll need to tune your suspension to Dunlops.

No touring tire (Stiff heavy carcass)will perform as well as a sport or supersport tire. To date, no manufacturer has come up with a heavy high mileage touring tire that performs well. You have many choices between mileage and performance, it's up to you to decide on what you require from a tire.

I tend to be more performance oriented and rarely get more than 2,500 miles on a set.
 
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