Superflare Billet Velocity Stacks

[Goes9s]

Yes, stock 05 Busa and we gained 8 total with no other changes other than dialing in the stacks using the power commander. The dyno numbers before and after are really irrelevant but what is relevent is the air fuel curve on the before and after dyno pulls are the same - the difference was 8hp after the stack mod and that was even at an altitude of 2300 MSL.

 

[mountainmotor]

Yes, stock 05 Busa and we gained 8 total with no other changes other than dialing in the stacks using the power commander.  The dyno numbers before and after are really irrelevant but what is relevent is the air fuel curve on the before and after dyno pulls are the same - the difference was 8hp after the stack mod and that was even at an altitude of 2300 MSL.

Nope . The before and after numbers are hugely relevant . Problem is your testing was not performed on the same day . Also you did a small box mod inbetween installing those Hartley Stacks your using and forgetting to say anything about it , if i'm not mistaken .

Recall , the topic maker was asking about another brand of velocity stacks anyway and results of those have been independently quantified in Germany , Australia and the USA . The stock engines and even the Yosh Stg I cammed engines nose over early with them while all OEM shorts leave them from 9500 up and there's reason for it .

Here's  good thread to bring to the top in effort to argue the merits of using your favorite brand stacks on a stock engine . Read close that 1397's have lost power with them while schools not out yet on the 1685c car engines . Posting dyno sheets there go long and far .

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=89604.0

 

[mountainmotor]

bazz ,

This one's for you . Suzuki OEM mixed stacks vs Factory Pro topic stacks on a Busa with Yosh cams . If all shorts had been used he would of made out better up top.

http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=diwoneu1bn9.jpg

 

[Goes9s]

Yes, stock 05 Busa and we gained 8 total with no other changes other than dialing in the stacks using the power commander.  The dyno numbers before and after are really irrelevant but what is relevent is the air fuel curve on the before and after dyno pulls are the same - the difference was 8hp after the stack mod and that was even at an altitude of 2300 MSL.

Nope . The before and after numbers are hugely relevant . Problem is your testing was not performed on the same day . Also you did a small box mod inbetween installing those Hartley Stacks your using and forgetting to say anything about it , if i'm not mistaken .

Recall , the topic maker was asking about another brand of velocity stacks anyway and results of those have been independently quantified in Germany , Australia and the USA . The stock engines and even the Yosh Stg I cammed engines nose over early with them while all OEM shorts leave them from 9500 up and there's reason for it .

Here's  good thread to bring to the top in effort to argue the merits of using your favorite brand stacks on a stock engine . Read close that 1397's have lost power with them while schools not out yet on the 1685c car engines . Posting dyno sheets there go long and far .

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=89604.0

Sorry wrong again - testing was done same time of day, temp was different by 2 degress dewpoint and humidity were in range of each other as to not skew data on each run. I definitly know what I'm doing when it comes to the math equations of the dyno and set up. The fact remains, in like conditions, we gained 8hp (guilty of rounding 7.62hp) with new power coming in as early as 6200 to full gain at 7500 - 11000. These are the short stacks with a 79.5 mm flare and the power NEVER dropped off. **air/fuel between the runs were +/- .2 Sorry, maybe it's one tuner is better than another.

As for the air box mod - with no fans blowing into that you will never see full potential from that mod unless you are on the track. I made a few assumptions on the increaed flow at 140mph and I'll probably pick up another 3hp form that. That's just a best guess - no facts.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I have no idea what MountainMotors history but from some previous postings he has made, I would guess he has some practice at all this

I would pay attention to what he appears to be giving away here..

Me? to settle this issue I would do the following: (only way I know how)

Get a racer like Professor that is consistent run to run on a solid bike. (this is really the biggest issue to me)

Use the stock stacks, tune and get some real runs in and see what you can get..
Now go with all shorts, tune again and see where you are..
Now go with all longs, tune again and see where you are.. You may even try this with different combos..

Now go spend $200-300 on stacks tune again and see where you are...

Now do it all again...

thats drag racing..

anyway, after some time your log book will have enough "real world" data to make an informed intelligent decision.. dyno pulls only count for about 50% of this entire equation (the first half) the track is the other half and it will decide the real value of your $$ per hp gained (if any) with time slips..

If you are in any type of a bracket race deal, then consistency is far better than gross power IMO.. If you are chasing gross power numbers (IE dyno motor) then knock yourself out, it is a lot easier than building a fast machine..

I admire the patience (and $$) it takes to build successful machines but I have seen more winners with less than the optimum setup beat the pants off motors that were far superior on the dyno..

Don't get me wrong, I could not live without the dyno, but it has some very serious shortcomings and so we only used it for getting baselines.. it was amazing how different some of our tuneups went after we got to the track..

Seems contradictory but I guess there is a lot about drag racing that is contradictory.. .Like I never wore a dress to go dragging

 

[Goes9s]

Bogus,

All good points but with out a dyno you have no idea how to set up a safe motor for racing, the rest does coming down to the driver. Dyno's really do tell the story as long as you tune and race at the same location and conditions. I've NEVER re-tuned at the track once i left the dyno . I've been beaten by one of those less powerful motors only because I couldn't get the traction i needed with all the power we were making. I think the main point of the discussion is around what stacks work well with what set up. I lot of guessing going on out their and i only deal in facts. The stacks i chose are absolutely awesome and that is a fact. With my set up, they shocked the hell out of the tuner because normally you due drop power a little right around redline - we did not. I don't have a scanner so I'll see if the tuner can e-mail it to me and I'll try mspaint and cut the top part of the graph out to show you all or when I get it i can e-mail to whomever.

FYI - At 45, I probably have just as much experience at the track as the most experience on this forum just not on a bike - I own 3 race cars - 2 drag and 1 road course car. Dosen't mean i can't learn more just not stupid about drag racing. I need lots of help with understanding the bike racing aspect but more so on launching techniques, suspension, air shifters and even some motor work. Those things that are different than car racing.

 

[GoldenChild]

Goes9s,you say before and after tune is not realative?You do know the D/A changes,atomospheric changes and actual temp changes affect each pull you do on the dyno..We have watched it live what happens and hp #'s change.DID YOU DO 1 SINGLE THING OTHER THAN INSTALL THE STACKS FROM ONE RUN TO THE NEXT?..You will NEVER have the same conditions from 1 minute to the next even in a sealed dyno room..The best you can do is tune on a dyno to optimum conditions at the present and then change your tuneup at the track as conditions around you change...Best of Luck this season.

 

[Goes9s]

Yes, stock 05 Busa and we gained 8 total with no other changes other than dialing in the stacks using the power commander.  The dyno numbers before and after are really irrelevant but what is relevent is the air fuel curve on the before and after dyno pulls are the same - the difference was 8hp after the stack mod and that was even at an altitude of 2300 MSL.

LOL - i did not say the before and after tune was not relevent what I said was the numbers you asked for for were irrelevent in the context of the conversation.

Each time i make a single change i go back to the dyno for testing. Rarely do I do 2 or more changes before I re-dyno. If people are doing mulitple changes before going back to the dyno (lol) how do they know what impacts each change on the overall performance. Maybe one change gave all the gains and the other changed was a waste of time and money.

You are correct in that you can rarely duplicate a dyno pull on two seperate days and yes I'm fully aware of the affects in changes to temp, pressure etc has on each run but the minuet changes in these metrics between the runs had a miniscule impact on the overall HP.

Thanks and good luck to you as well.

Props on those stacks for those who are looking!!

 

[Mr Bogus]

Would never question your experience or ability.. met a few sleepers here on the .oRg....

I guess I am just not that sold on a dyno for any racing tuneup... set a baseline, run in the rings, make sure it does not sprout any leaks, sure...

but for race day tuneup ? I just do not think it is all that great of a tool for best results..

I feel a good logbook and documentation can blow the doors off most motors that come out of a dyno room..

I guess to me it is like the "dyno drags"... great fun, interesting but just not real world..

 

[Goes9s]

Would never question your experience or ability.. met a few sleepers here on the .oRg....

I guess I am just not that sold on a dyno for any racing tuneup...  set a baseline, run in the rings, make sure it does not sprout any leaks, sure...  

but for race day tuneup ? I just do not think it is all that great of a tool for best results..

I feel a good logbook and documentation can blow the doors off most motors that come out of a dyno room..

I guess to me it is like the "dyno drags"... great fun, interesting but just not real world..

I definitely respect yours and everyone elses opinion on this subject and any other thread in this forum thats how we can all learn and share experiences. You take a little from each person and figure out what works for you; might be a combination of several inputs. Someone was just asking what stacks worked and I gave my 2 cents but based my comments on facts not second hand information.

I've had great success coming off the dyno and going to the track. The luxury i have is that the dyno is about 2 blocks from the track. The load difference between the dyno and track haven't given me any issues. To each his own.

 

[GoldenChild]

 

[bazz]

Thanks for the input chaps, i did not think this topic would raise that much of an issue

my money was burning a hole in my pocket and i have now bought a set of these and currently waiting now for the bike to be set up for them.

I will let you know the outcome of fitting these.

 

[Mr Bogus]

wait till you start talk about "head porting" or pipes...

You know that your header works sort of like a reverse v.stack?

You start talking about diameters, stepped, wrapped, collector lengths etc..

 

[Goes9s]

aint' that the true...lol And how many people try and port to match and re-install without bench testing

 

[Mr Bogus]

ut oh, flow bench numbers to go with the dyno?

as much as I like building and tweaking... port work is a black art..

I did all the pipe and manifold port matching and basic pocket cleanup but I left the real work to the guys that sold their souls to the devil for the talent....

 

[Goes9s]

Bogus, you crack me up

 yep, all my numbers have to line up; who do you think designed your bike and your mods - engineers using numbers then a lot of R&D on a dyno & track - it all has to flow together!
Personally i will never touch porting.  Like you said, "black art" and i know when to keep my hands off of something.  I know the flow numbers i want to see based on the intake and exhaust mods etc, so I'll leave porting to the experts.

 

[99'busa]

i have heard since this thread started..i cant remember where so i cant put alot behind it, that velocity stacks on 1397 actually LOST some hp! anybody ever heard of that?

 

[bazz]

I Will soon tell you next week, i have the bike in for some work and a dyno run.

hopefuly post a picture of the graph here for all to have a look at

 

[busaboy23]

nice one bazz

 

[SLEEPERBUSA]

I'll take more fact feedback from anyone on what you think my next steps should be for more power.

Thanks,

It's a fact that a Brock GenIII will make more HP than a Yosh.


Airbox work DOES make a difference on a dyno.
I've seen it.