stabilizer ?

Cap, of course I do have a stabilizer - the stocker with heavy gear oil. Unfortunately, I put the heavy oil after my tank slapper. All I am saying I only needed it on that day to do the job, and not on any other ride for the previous two years I had a bike, including a number of track days.

Well, racers do have, but many bikes don't - for example, my Katana 600 didn't have it. And, do we race? No matter you just ride or race, I explained what causes the front to get out of alignment - there isn't much more to it. The question is how to go about it.

It is comforting to have it, no doubt about it - knowing it will save me when the time comes, but I prefer to do my part to minimize steering input when not needed, and I think ultimately this is the way to go about it.
 
Cap, of course I do have a stabilizer - the stocker with heavy gear oil. Unfortunately, I put the heavy oil after my tank slapper. All I am saying I only needed it on that day to do the job, and not on any other ride for the previous two years I had a bike, including a number of track days.

Well, racers do have, but many bikes don't - for example, my Katana 600 didn't have it. And, do we race? No matter you just ride or race, I explained what causes the front to get out of alignment - there isn't much more to it. The question is how to go about it.

It is comforting to have it, no doubt about it - knowing it will save me when the time comes, but I prefer to do my part to minimize steering input when not needed, and I think ultimately this is the way to go about it.

I wanted to make sure that I didn't come across wrong, so if I did the intent wasn't there.. I still think this is a good topic, lots of opinions, facts and experiences come from it...

All I am saying I only needed it on that day to do the job, and not on any other ride for the previous two years I had a bike,

Very true, I only needed my helmet the day I crashed too... All the other times I wore it was a waste I suppose. The stabilizer gives a better ride no matter what anyone else says I can feel that. As far as it saving me, all I need is it to save me one time from going down in the life of the bike and I would call that good...

To your point about the katana, they are not in the same class as a sportbike either, you don't see a lot of those on the track here in oklahoma, maybe other places but not here.. I do know that stabilizers are now coming out for harleys and cruisers for the reasons I mentioned above, wind wobble, road uneveness and debris.

Its hard for me to explain that when your in a cross wind that you can turn the dial and feel the wobble go away, no lean, no track just on the hwy, turn it back down and the wobble goes away...

cap
 
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Cap, the wind explanation is simple: in order to go straight in the wind a rider needs to apply constant steering input. Any road imperfections which get the front a little lighter, would cause the front to turn a bit at that moment because of the constant steering input. Once the front settles, it is a little off the center. This creates a wobble. A stabilizer will help, no doubt about it.

Again, all I am saying that in such situation, I would try to minimize the steering input needed to combat the wind - I would lay down on the tank and lean my upper body to the side where the wind comes from, thus greatly reducing the need for the steering input in the first place. As opposed to having my upper body in the center and upright - acting like a sail.

So, my motto hear is to help the bike - the bike is my friend.

About the helmet analogy, you are absolutely right. Just a useless bucket until you need it - be it a road or a bumble bee. Coincidentally in my 100 mph tumble, the helmet didn't touch - just a scratched visor.

No hard feelings, don't worry. I just like to get to the bottom of things, and until I get a comprehensive and logical argument, I will insist on my point of view.
 
All I've gotta say, is I must be one slow SOB... my Gen 1 has 17K+ miles on it, and I've never felt the need for a dampner.
When pushed, the bike warbles thru corners sometimes.. but I know that is suspension set up.. I'm working the stock forks more than they were designed for. My 73 Honda 750 warbled like hell when pushed...and I just rode thru it. I do the same now. Just gotta ride thru it. I wheelie darned near every time I ride, I ride on some rough stinkin roads...and when it warbles, I just add throttle... it goes away.

Tuf... do I need a dampner???


With all due respect Cap... the post below was uncalled for. It was tacky, and wrong.
Rich has a ton more experience than most riders on this board. Just my opinion.
I guess thats why all the race guys have em huh Rich, maybe someday they might have an much experience as you...

cap
 
All I've gotta say, is I must be one slow SOB... my Gen 1 has 17K+ miles on it, and I've never felt the need for a dampner.
When pushed, the bike warbles thru corners sometimes.. but I know that is suspension set up.. I'm working the stock forks more than they were designed for. My 73 Honda 750 warbled like hell when pushed...and I just rode thru it. I do the same now. Just gotta ride thru it. I wheelie darned near every time I ride, I ride on some rough stinkin roads...and when it warbles, I just add throttle... it goes away.

Tuf... do I need a dampner???


With all due respect Cap... the post below was uncalled for. It was tacky, and wrong.
Rich has a ton more experience than most riders on this board. Just my opinion.

Mark I know know your riding skills, maybe your the exception to the rule. As far as the tacky comment, last time I heard from Rich he hated this place and was never coming back. It's amazing how people will bash me, this site, the admins on other forums then want to slide back in like nothing ever happened.
 
Dang it Cap, I leave for one day and everybody seems to be ganging up on you! I gonna switch sides and give you a hand!

All you novice, hypocroticol dipsticks that think you don't need a damper need sycologocol hep! :moon:

There, now the playing field is equal again! :whistle:
 
I can't imagine riding a bike as fast as this without a damper of some sort. I took my Honda 919 up to 145-ish a couple of times and it was pretty scary not having a damper. Stock or not, you have to have something if you're going to really use a Busa for it's intended purpose.

I had a Scotts damper on my old Busa and it made a huge difference. Of course, I used to treat the Cherohala Skyway like it was a racetrack. When you're taking 20 MPH marked turns at 80 MPH, leaving blackies on the way out, an aftermarket damper is a big deal.

If you're riding responsibily on public roads, you'll rarely have the need for anything greater than the stock unit. That said, if you ever do need an aftermarket unit, you'll certainly be glad it's there.
 
I was so proud of my way earlier post and When carving at my limit (and the bikes) Doyle

I was proud of your earlier post as well. Good Points! I also want to commend you for stepping up to the plate and admitting you can ride that big heifer to her limits! I'm thinking you may be the first and only member in the boards history who has openly confessed to such talent! :bowdown:

You realize I'm giving you a hard time but it's all in fun! :beerchug:

Oh, and you should have been looking at those race bikes on the paddock to see just how many sport a rotary damper! :laugh:

On to more serious stuff! It's not the damper that makes the ride stable and it's not the damper that corrects the shakes when you hit wind gusts or washboard pavement etc. it's that little thing called "Trail". More of it makes the bike more stable, less of it makes the bike less stable. Trail it the distance between the rake angle and the contact patch. This thing called Trail is what causes the front wheel to center itself without input from the rider after the turn is complete. The damper has absolutely nothing and I mean "NOTHING" to do with it!

Doyle wants to know why all the race bikes in the paddock have them, well I'll explain the reason why it's a must for the Moto GP race bike and not a requirement for Doyle. More like a luxury!

Racer's have a choice to make in bike set up and it's a fine and for professional racers a VERY fine line between quick turn in and stability. To little "Trail" can lead to a bike so unstable it cannot be ridden competitively by anyone. To much "Trail" makes the bike sluggish and hard to get turned. For these bikes a rod type stabilizer is an absolute must. Because, the rider wants all the speed on tip in the bike can handle and the stabilizer is a safety net to help settle the bike when it gets nervous and twitchy before the bike gets out of control. Riding a bike set up in this manner without a stabilizer is suicidal.

Now on to Raydog's bike. Unless his bike has the a$$ end poking up in the air like a two dollar prostitute and he indeed can and does romp the fat chick beyond any mortal's capibilities in the canyons, his need for a stabilizer is minimized. He may have a situation in the canyons where a stabilizer will save him from a crash but his chances of hitting the lottery are probably better, if however he has not changed the factory "Trail". Once the bikes stock geometry has been changed, all bets are off on how the bike reacts to stability!

So the point I'm making is a stabilizer does absolutely nothing for your stock street bike to keep you out of trouble until you do something really silly like set a wheelie down all crossed up or spin the rear out or skid it out with the brake to get the bike in a mis-aligned position. At that point the front wheel trail will do it's best to re-align the tires and a steering damper will definately help shorten the length of time it takes the bike to center itself but by no means does the damper keep the event from taking place!

One other point, most who purchase high end adjustible dampers spend little or no time learning how to properly use the unit and most will set them to stiff which in many cases creates more problems by not allowing the front wheel Trail to do it's job and would be better off with no damper at all!

And yes Doyle, I'm picking on you! I've badgered Cap enough! :welcome:
 
PS: Today is a play day at the track for me and I'm late. I'll check back in tonight to make sure there has been no fist fights!

Now you boys behave yoself! :rulez:

And if Doyle don't complain, we'll spank him some more later! :cheerleader:
 
WOW! Great and VERY informative thread. I was just asking some of these very questions just days ago wondering if I should go to an aftermarket damper or not. So I'm GUESSING it's kind of like power steering.. It's nice to have but can live w/o it.
 
I had a scare or two afterwords I decided to step up to plate and be 100% sure when I get on my bike im safe.

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I'm sure there has to be other debates about some other after market parts , like this one.....what are some ? TUFF ??

REALLY like reading ALL the posts on this thread....I know I've learned something....That I don't know JACK-BONE !! I'm so ignorant about it I can't go 1 way or the other (1 more chance to use my favorite smiley) :stoopid:
 
I'm with you Kenny I don't know squat either...and to think all this good info is FREE...
 
Dangit, I was proud of my Raydog post. I must be loosing my humorous touch, I poke a little fun at Doyle and I don't even get a "Pissoff" response!

He is either out of town or mad at me! :whistle:
 
That was a BOLD statement :poke: :laugh:

I know a few people that can take their bike to it's limits......see them on T.V. all the time :laugh: (just havin fun)
 
That was a BOLD statement :poke: :laugh:

I know a few people that can take their bike to it's limits......see them on T.V. all the time :laugh: (just havin fun)[/QUOTE]

Having fun is what life is all about. A good attitude and good humor will make you live a longer healthier life! I intend to live to 110 and get shot by a jealous husband! :cheerleader:
 
Dangit, I was proud of my Raydog post. I must be loosing my humorous touch, I poke a little fun at Doyle and I don't even get a "Pissoff" response!

He is either out of town or mad at me! :whistle:


Yes, I was out of town! I hate to say it but you do make this conversation fun. And....I would never let you know you "pissed me off", that would be to show weakness!

Regarding my "HAYBUS" (my name for her), she does fly with a compromised trail geometry and, even when she lets me ride her, her hiney is quite high in the air. I don't know if I'm fast or not, but I do know I ring her out and would feel terrible without a quality damper.

This is painful to admit Steven, but I think you hit the nail on the head regarding steering and damping.....that is, with my current geometry, in some way, the damping resistance offers me the ILLUSION of slower steering while providing the quicker, more sped up direction changing ability....does that make any sense?

You knowledgeable racetrack veterans are so cocky and self assured!

Doyle

ps thanks to all of you for making this org so darn fun.

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