power commander??


#1
I just bought a power commander 3 with usb. All I have done to my bike is yoshimura slipons. I put the cammander on my bike and downloaded the map from the site for the yosh pipe. But i can't really tell a difference in power much?? Just wonderin i see u can change numbers on the map dont know anything bout that stuff?
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MC MUSTANG

Peace Keeper or Ban Hammer-it's up to you; IDMBT#9
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#2
BDB-
You probably won't see much of a gain from a PC with a slip on. For max performance, the PC is a great combo with a full system...

BTW, welcome!
 

Over_Easy

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#3
I have read that if you have it custom dynoed (~$200+) you should have noticable gains (~5-8 HP)...even if stock. Contact Dynojet who manufactures it and inquire:
http://www.dynojet.com/about_us/contact.aspx

Custom dyno and mapping will maximize the air/fuel mixture for YOUR bike. Results will be evident on the readout.
 
#4
(Over_Easy @ Sep. 23 2006,00:40) I have read that if you have it custom dynoed (~$200+) you should have noticable gains (~5-8 HP)...even if stock.  Contact Dynojet who manufactures it and inquire:
http://www.dynojet.com/about_us/contact.aspx

Custom dyno and mapping will maximize the air/fuel mixture for YOUR bike.  Results will be evident on the readout.
not from slip ons
remember a pc3usb isn't a magical box to give you HP..........

it is a tool to let you map the bike so it runs correctly to your wrist. the byproduct is a hp and torque gain
 

GPW

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#5
The very best power increase you will see with slip-ons is 5-7hp. With that small of a change. The stock mapping in the ECU can handle it and the Power Commander is not needed. But you can add on other goodies like a quick shifter and adjust your throttle position and put it in synch with your power commander mapping for better throttle response. Not sure if the accelerator function will help with slip-ons but you might want to play with that as well. Just info...........
 
#7
(GPW @ Sep. 23 2006,09:07) The very best power increase you will see with slip-ons is 5-7hp. With that small of a change. The stock mapping in the ECU can handle it and the Power Commander is not needed. But you can add on other goodies like a quick shifter and adjust your throttle position and put it in synch with your power commander mapping for better throttle response. Not sure if the accelerator function will help with slip-ons but you might want to play with that as well. Just info...........
prove it!

you will NEVER see 5-7 gain from slip ons PERIOD NEVER
 

KROOZER

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#8
Sorry Dude, but I just added some Yosh bolt-on cans to my 06 Busa and I dont feel any gain in HP. I just bought it because I wanted more sound to alert the other cars that there is a bike nearby (safety) since the original stock cans were too quiet. However, I suddenly began to feel that I lost some power. Or should I say the bike is not responsive the way it used to be. Plus, at 1st gear going 1500 rpm it feels like it wants to die out. But after stopping by the gas station the other day, I noticed the chain was was too loose. Im surprise it didnt come off. (Bike has only 500 miles). I hope this is the answer.
 
#10
(Johnnycheese @ Sep. 23 2006,22:05)
(GPW @ Sep. 23 2006,09:07) The very best power increase you will see with slip-ons is 5-7hp. With that small of a change. The stock mapping in the ECU can handle it and the Power Commander is not needed. But you can add on other goodies like a quick shifter and adjust your throttle position and put it in synch with your power commander mapping for better throttle response. Not sure if the accelerator function will help with slip-ons but you might want to play with that as well. Just info...........
prove it!

you will NEVER see 5-7 gain from slip ons PERIOD NEVER
Johnny's correct. Typically, all you can hope for in peak HP gain with slip-ons is several HP at best although; many areas of the engine's range can be made more responsive with appropriate tuning.

The significant bottleneck in the stock exhaust system is its restrictive 17-pound headers. The entire OEM exhaust system weighs a whopping 30-pounds! That's almost like toting around another full gas tank!

Now compare that to a quality aftermarket 10-pound (and some are even lighter) less restrictive exhaust system.

With most slip-ons, you've lost no weight or virtually no weight to speak of. They are basically a "looks and sound" ONLY type mod.
 

tinbender0

Cool Breeze
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#11
wow.......that sucks, the dealership is saying between 10 to 17 h.p. with just a power commander and custom map on a stock bike..
eek2.gif
.....But anyway, I did notice some gains and throttle response with my P.C., map,(Not a custom map) K&N air filter, and my yoshi bolt ons. Don't know the numbers may get it dynoed this week for kicks.... I 'll have to wait on the  custom map. I'll keep ya posted if I get a chance to do it this week.. Anyone have a custom map they're not using?lol
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#12
(tinbender0 @ Sep. 25 2006,16:50) wow.......that sucks, the dealership is saying between 10 to 17 h.p. with just a power commander and custom map on a stock bike..
eek2.gif
.....But anyway, I did notice some gains and throttle response with my P.C., map,(Not a custom map) K&N air filter, and my yoshi bolt ons. Don't know the numbers may get it dynoed this week for kicks.... I 'll have to wait on the  custom map. I'll keep ya posted if I get a chance to do it this week.. Anyone have a custom map they're not using?lol
bowdown.gif
What a tall tale! 10 to 17 HP on a completely stock Hayabusa on mapping alone!
laugh.gif


That's utterly amazing that they could lie to your face while maintaining a straight face! If liars burst into flame, you would have been incinerated by your close proximity!
laugh.gif


Now you know why they've been dubbed "Stealerships".
wink.gif


laugh.gif
 

Over_Easy

GEO-STABILIZATION EXPERT
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#13
MC just had a test article where they installed a PC III USB and a custom map on a STOCK 2006 R6 and got up to 8 more HP.
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tinbender0

Cool Breeze
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#16
(Quasar @ Sep. 25 2006,14:11)
(tinbender0 @ Sep. 25 2006,16:50) wow.......that sucks, the dealership is saying between 10 to 17 h.p. with just a power commander and custom map on a stock bike..
eek2.gif
.....But anyway, I did notice some gains and throttle response with my P.C., map,(Not a custom map) K&N air filter, and my yoshi bolt ons. Don't know the numbers may get it dynoed this week for kicks.... I 'll have to wait on the  custom map. I'll keep ya posted if I get a chance to do it this week.. Anyone have a custom map they're not using?lol
bowdown.gif
What a tall tale! 10 to 17 HP on a completely stock Hayabusa on mapping alone!
laugh.gif


That's utterly amazing that they could lie to your face while maintaining a straight face! If liars burst into flame, you would have been incinerated by your close proximity!
laugh.gif


Now you know why they've been dubbed "Stealerships".
wink.gif
Well had it dynoed tonight at the local bike night (different dyno).( It was free)The guy did the run in 6th gear for some reason
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?The dealer did it in 4th?
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No torque reading?
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H.P. on the print out was 153.6, speed was 194.4 said "I should do his air box mod."So with the K&N air filter, power commander and map was only a net h.p.gain of 4.01 hp?
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??What do you guys think?
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#17
Tinbender0,

What Dynojet map were you running on the dyno?

If you're still running a completely stock Hayabusa engine (including the OEM exhaust), a gain of 4 HP isn't considered bad for only adding a K&N air filter and mapping. Not that you might not be able to squeeze a another HP or two out of it but then again, you might not be able to depending upon your stock cam degreeing.

Keep in mind that aftermarket air filters don't pump air into the engine, they merely provide slightly less restriction, which can allow an extra HP or two up top, but they tend to make throttle response a little crisper while operating the engine in its lower RPM (provided you actually keep the air filter clean).

I clean my K&N every 1,200 to 1,500 miles during the peak of bug season and every 1,500 to 2,000 miles by the start of fall. During the peak of bug season here in PA, my on-board O2 sensors begins to show my A/F ratio is becoming slightly richer by the time I've reached just 1,500 to 2,000 miles since my K&N air filter was last cleaned.

So, to maintain peak engine performance, I simply lift the tank, yank and clean my K&N, re-oil and reinstall. My A/F ratio is back to normal just like that and so is my throttle response. The air filter never looks all that dirty by a visible examine and this is what deceives the masses, but once in the cleaning process with a closed wash tub, all the grit and bug carcasses that were in its pleats that come out in the wash tub make readily apparent the air filter was far dirtier than a visible examine will reveal.

For this reason, it is my opinion that the importance of cleaning and maintaining your air filter is never expressed greatly enough. Admittedly, in my earlier days of riding, I used many air filters beyond their max efficiency days. It is only since I mounted a heated O2 sensor and Halmeter AF30 in my 99 Hayabusa early on, that I was able to actually technically detect the difference in the A/F ratio between a freshly cleaned K&N air filter and one that has sucked in enough bugs and road grit to start clogging the air filter enough to richen the A/F ratio prior to cleaning the filter.

It is for this reason, I HIGHLY recommend the use of either a K&N or BMC performance air filter for your bike. I've been using my K&N for many years now and it’s had the cr*p washed out of it over the years and is still holding up well. They are also cheaper than the BMC's. The purchase of a reusable air filter will pay for itself before purchasing a 2nd OEM air filter, as K&N’s are only about $15 less than an OEM air filter.

Schnitzracing.com sells the K&N for $59.95. Here's the link...

http://secure.mycart.net/catalog....vnext=1

While you're at it, you may want to consider performing the Small Box Mod and adding some quality aftermarket RAM-Air seals as well since you’d have your air box off to make the Small Box mod. The OEM foam RAM-Air seals are basically useless.
 
#19
(InfiniteReality @ Sep. 27 2006,13:53) Just curious, what kind of RWHP do people put down with only a full system, K&N and PC?
It will fluctuate naturally as everyone isn’t being dynoed on the exact same dyno with the exact same air density/humidity levels. Roughly 165 RWHP can be anticipated, but keep the following in mind…If you tune your Hayabusa’s RAM-Air inducted engine to an absolute peak RWHP while sitting on a stationary dyno, which is missing one of your engine’s essential elements for maximizing its horsepower (its RAM-Air induction), you will have detuned it for street or track use and therefore produce slightly less RWHP, as it WILL be receiving its RAM-Air induction, which further leans the A/F ratio that had been tuned perfect for peak dyno HP numbers.

Yes, the air box pressure will compensate the A/F ratio however, only to a point. The ECM uses predetermined algorithms for the air box pressure it detects. These algorithms are based solely upon the stock fueling tables inherent within the ECM. Therefore, any alteration to the stock map via a Power Commander, Techlusion, Yosh Box, Yosh EMS, etc... indirectly alters the fueling correction factor that the ECM would otherwise apply based upon its air box compensation algorithms. These air box algorithms are merely a percentage added to the base fuel table and this base fuel table is modified by the external fuel remapping device therefore, the RAM-Air compensations are not fixed amounts of fuel added. There is no means to directly alter the predetermined RAM-Air compensation applied by the ECM. That would require reprogramming beyond the abilities of simple add-on devices such as a Power Commander and the like.

This would NOT be an issue if the ECM based its air box correction factor on actual sampled O2 content from its exhaust, as it would simply add (or remove) the appropriate amount of fuel to maintain a peak A/F ratio however, this simply is NOT the scenario on current day Hayabusas. Their air box correction factor remains a fixed algorithm and there is no sampling of the O2 gases whatsoever (at least not on current U.S. models), so at best, its air box algorithms are yielding approximations in the A/F ratio based upon the stock airflow rate of a stock Hayabusa engine and the air box pressures that normally accompany a stock flowing engine.

This is why RAM-Air corrections CANNOT correct appropriately for modified engines and why dynos typically rob the engine of some of its HP potential on the street or track. The engine in a modified, higher flow engine still has the stock RAM-Air (air box pressure) algorithms applied to compensate its fueling, which can ONLY prove itself less than adequate. Making things still worse, is the following...

The air box pressure in a modified engine verses a stock engine is not the same even at the same given forward velocity and the same engine RPM. As you’d expect (but may not have given much thought), the modified engine is flowing more air due to its ability to draw more air. What does this do to the air box pressure? It makes it more negative, as it is drawing more air per second than the stock flowing engine. The more negative the air box pressure, the less fuel compensation applied as per the stock preprogrammed/predetermined algorithms.

So, the modified engine pays the further penalty unless the tuner is wise enough to ADD appropriate fuel compensation rather than remove it as often guided/persuaded 100% by the dyno O2 levels detected during the dyno run.

One thing becomes clear, if you are trying to win a dyno horsepower shoot-out, tuning on and for the dyno is the absolute best method however, if you are attempting to max your horsepower for use in practical application, like when actually riding or running it on the track, tuning from an on-board O2 source is the ONLY way to achieve absolute max usable HP. It is the only method that actually allows you to compensate for the engine’s RAM-Air induction as applied and sensed, to yield its max HP potential. The dyno can NEVER yield a RAM-Air inducted engine’s max HP potential for the street. Until dynos can supply an algorithmically controlled RAM-Air supply of fresh air to a RAM-Air inducted engine during stationary dyno tuning, dynos will remain only a ballpark tuning device. They only get you close but always short of max HP potential. This is why I never get hung up over dyno numbers and why I went with on-board O2 collection on countless Hayabusas with every mod conceivable...

Dyno-tuning Turboed and Supercharged Engines:

On things like turboed or supercharged engines, dynos are a great tuning tool since the engine is in fact receiving ALL its intake air via its forced air induction.
 

Devious

Onward through the Fog
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#20
(Quasar @ Sep. 27 2006,14:09)
(InfiniteReality @ Sep. 27 2006,13:53) Just curious, what kind of RWHP do people put down with only a full system, K&N and PC?
It will fluctuate naturally as everyone isn’t being dynoed on the exact same dyno with the exact same air density/humidity levels. Roughly 165 RWHP can be anticipated, but keep the following in mind…If you tune your Hayabusa’s RAM-Air inducted engine to an absolute peak RWHP while sitting on a stationary dyno, which is missing one of your engine’s essential elements for maximizing its horsepower (its RAM-Air induction), you will have detuned it for street or track use and therefore produce slightly less RWHP, as it WILL be receiving its RAM-Air induction, which further leans the A/F ratio that had been tuned perfect for peak dyno HP numbers.

Yes, the air box pressure will compensate the A/F ratio however, only to a point. The ECM uses predetermined algorithms for the air box pressure it detects. These algorithms are based solely upon the stock fueling tables inherent within the ECM. Therefore, any alteration to the stock map via a Power Commander, Techlusion, Yosh Box, Yosh EMS, etc... indirectly alters the fueling correction factor that the ECM would otherwise apply based upon its air box compensation algorithms. These air box algorithms are merely a percentage added to the base fuel table and this base fuel table is modified by the external fuel remapping device therefore, the RAM-Air compensations are not fixed amounts of fuel added. There is no means to directly alter the predetermined RAM-Air compensation applied by the ECM. That would require reprogramming beyond the abilities of simple add-on devices such as a Power Commander and the like.

This would NOT be an issue if the ECM based its air box correction factor on actual sampled O2 content from its exhaust, as it would simply add (or remove) the appropriate amount of fuel to maintain a peak A/F ratio however, this simply is NOT the scenario on current day Hayabusas. Their air box correction factor remains a fixed algorithm and there is no sampling of the O2 gases whatsoever (at least not on current U.S. models), so at best, its air box algorithms are yielding approximations in the A/F ratio based upon the stock airflow rate of a stock Hayabusa engine and the air box pressures that normally accompany a stock flowing engine.

This is why RAM-Air corrections CANNOT correct appropriately for modified engines and why dynos typically rob the engine of some of its HP potential on the street or track. The engine in a modified, higher flow engine still has the stock RAM-Air (air box pressure) algorithms applied to compensate its fueling, which can ONLY prove itself less than adequate. Making things still worse, is the following...

The air box pressure in a modified engine verses a stock engine is not the same even at the same given forward velocity and the same engine RPM. As you’d expect (but may not have given much thought), the modified engine is flowing more air due to its ability to draw more air. What does this do to the air box pressure? It makes it more negative, as it is drawing more air per second than the stock flowing engine. The more negative the air box pressure, the less fuel compensation applied as per the stock preprogrammed/predetermined algorithms.

So, the modified engine pays the further penalty unless the tuner is wise enough to ADD appropriate fuel compensation rather than remove it as often guided/persuaded 100% by the dyno O2 levels detected during the dyno run.

One thing becomes clear, if you are trying to win a dyno horsepower shoot-out, tuning on and for the dyno is the absolute best method however, if you are attempting to max your horsepower for use in practical application, like when actually riding or running it on the track, tuning from an on-board O2 source is the ONLY way to achieve absolute max usable HP. It is the only method that actually allows you to compensate for the engine’s RAM-Air induction as applied and sensed, to yield its max HP potential. The dyno can NEVER yield a RAM-Air inducted engine’s max HP potential for the street. Until dynos can supply an algorithmically controlled RAM-Air supply of fresh air to a RAM-Air inducted engine during stationary dyno tuning, dynos will remain only a ballpark tuning device. They only get you close but always short of max HP potential. This is why I never get hung up over dyno numbers and why I went with on-board O2 collection on countless Hayabusas with every mod conceivable...

Dyno-tuning Turboed and Supercharged Engines:

On things like turboed or supercharged engines, dynos are a great tuning tool since the engine is in fact receiving ALL its intake air via its forced air induction.
Bet ya can't say that 3 times really fast...
 

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